More transgender options in the cog/hosted games?

Here is a BBC Magazine article talking about transgender roles in Hollywood - trans-erasure is discussed and the upcoming roles in a couple of movies are discussed, both of which might help writers here write better characters.

A short glossary of terms is included and it links to others although even though the glossary is written today, the usage is not as current it seems as those given here by @Bagelthief and others.

Hollywood Trans Roles and Trans-erasure

Here is a 15-minute YouTube video made by Jen Richards (an activist and actress) that also explains the issue of trans-erasure in detail … Casting Cis Actors in Trans Roles

Hope this helps people.

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Forgive me, thank you and @LanaRose for the correction. As I know many have pointed out, it does seem like there is some inconsistencies between accepted terminology even within the trans community because there can be a generation gap and language evolves so fast in certain areas. In my attempt to be sensitive I used a spelling that, although my original source found it acceptable or even preferred, it is no longer. And I had no idea about the origin, of course I do NOT want to conflate those things!!! :sweat: I apologize for any offense and am grateful for the update. I have amended the post.

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Funny, I used the singular ā€œtheyā€ before I even knew nb peeps were a thing.

I thought it was convenient and I didn’t understand why people didn’t use it.

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There is REALLY no need to be so nitpicky.

He/him are male and masculine pronouns. She/her are female and feminine pronouns. There is nothing cisnormative or cissexist or whatever about that. These binary pronouns are used exclusively by folks IDing as male or female (or whatever and whenever state at the time closest to for NB folks) respectively in the English language. I have no idea why anyone would choose otherwise.

But sure, let’s say a Mexican trans girl decides to still be called "he/himā€. Doesn’t make it anymore a gender neutral or female pronoun than him adopting the Chinese name ā€œYunxianā€ would make it automatically a Hispanic name.

A line has to be drawn on where we can constantly micromanage and police language. Slurs like try or sh*e? I know how they’re problematic. Extending this to how basic binary pronouns are used and thought of by 99.7% of the population? I don’t see it.

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Agreed, why do we have to ā€˜be male’ or ā€˜be female’ or ā€˜be trans’? Why not just ā€˜BE’

Sorry had a hippy/Zen moment.
http://weknowmemes.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/02/think-the-flowers-be-the-flowers.jpg

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My friend is nb. Pure nb, not demigirl, not nb girl, nb. And she uses she/her pronouns. In fact, it’s not uncommon to see non-binary folks using these ā€œgenderedā€ pronouns.

It’s not a binary thing to be agreeing with. This isn’t something binary trans folks should speak for. This is a nb problem to do with presentation. And by saying pronouns are male or female you’re unnecessarily applying binary gender onto a nb individual. Lotus, Snoe, I see you. :eyes:

Wait, you can be a NB girl? And go by she/he? And still be nb…?

This… might change things for me lmao. Brb, going to google.

Yeah. Nb is a catch-all to encompasses thousands of genders! Each with their own identity, presentation and cultural place.

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Oh wow, oh wow. I’ve been reading a lot about gender and stuff lately bc of this thread and putting all of that, together with this article I just read about being a nb girl, is helping me realize a lot about myself.

I’ve always thought that gender meant something very different to me than it does to other people, which is why it took me such a long time to understand where trans, nb, etc people were coming from.

I’m gonna look into this some more, but thanks a lot for the info!

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I’m so glad you’re discovering yourself. PM me if you need anything, I’m always here to help a gender-questioning soul.

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I feel like that would mostly entail me rambling about random shit haha :blush: But you’re very kind to offer. Thanks again!

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Hi!

In all seriousness though, I have to be real here for a moment:

The trans community does not have any power to dictate things right now. We just don’t. In some countries and (in the US) states the trans community has more power than in others, but our power is still so insignificant that it can all be taken away in about two years or less with the proper judicial or legislative systems in place. Hell, in the US there are 49 states where straight up murder of someone trans can be excused and the murderer in question can be given a less harsh punishment because they were in a panic.

We can’t be nitpicking with people who are attempting to be kind and understanding allies. They are going to mess up. They are going to say the wrong things to us or ask questions we straight up don’t want to answer. And some of them are going to realize that they are also trans, and still say things that are problematic until they realize or are taught that what they are saying isn’t quite right.

I myself have messed up, gone too far, said the wrong thing. Shit, I’ve misgendered someone because of a preconceived idea of his gender beat into my brain. This is despite the fact that I’m trans, despite the fact that I know how much it hurts to be misgendered. And I’m not alone. We all make mistakes and say the wrong things. But it’s how one reacts to those wrong things that determines if we build a bridge or a wall.

Right now, the trans community can’t continue to exist openly if we don’t start being more patient with our allies. Not those who insult, demean, or hate us. The majority of them will not change just because of some patience here and there. They aren’t worth the time spent speaking to them, let alone patience and understanding. Allies, though, we need to be more open with. The trans community has a history of being closed off from others (And for good reason, our lives can be at risk if we open up to the wrong person, and members of the LGB+ community like to argue that they can use anti-trans slurs just because we share an acronym.), and that needs to change.

If someone trying to be an ally says something we would consider upsetting or outdated, we can’t just say ā€˜that’s wrong and you need to change that.’. Remember, they, like we, are willingly fighting decades of societal lessons and pressures dealing with preconceived notions about gender and sex. Some of them didn’t even know we existed until meeting one of us on a forum. We have to explain why what they are saying could be seen as outdated, rude, or otherwise upsetting, and then we need to be prepared to offer counterpoints, rebuttals, and face people who just might be a bit stubborn.

I hate saying this, but unlike the gay community (specifically G and L), we still have to be prepared to be teachers. To answer questions we don’t like answering, and be patient even when it feels like you’re tearing out your soul doing so. The trans community is still in its infancy regarding relations with non-trans people overall (Caitlyn Jenner, to my distaste, was our point of revelation to a lot of people, and with same sex marriage legalized across the US and much of Europe, so we’re now in the spotlight), so those of us who come out will be asked questions.

Finally, if someone reacts to what you’re saying in such a way that seems frustrated or upset, don’t double down on your original point (or point fingers at those who support this person, myself included), try to understand why they are upset. I didn’t perceive @mistylavenda as upset at what you said, rather how you said it. You seemed dismissive towards @Razgriz’s overall point in favor of pointing out what you perceived to be wrong. Razgriz was actually trying not to make anyone annoyed or upset with that post, and you entirely dismissed that. And then, instead of explaining when confronted, you offered anecdotal evidence.

I love that you’re doing your best to explain things most people don’t know to as many as possible, and please don’t see this as me asking you to leave this thread (I don’t want you, or anyone else, to leave this thread. It’s a place of discussion, or meant to be. Discussion with only one or two voices is an echo chamber, not a discussion.). I just needed to get this off of my chest, because patience is a self preservation thing for many of us within the trans community, and showing people the opposite can be incredibly damaging to those of us who need that patience to live.

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I don’t know where I was dismissive as I was blunt and generally, you know, why do we have an autistic trans person in this thread, lmao. But, yeah, I should leave the talking to you guys with better, healthier brains, like I said before. I shouldn’t have been on this thread. Sorry and thanks.

You’re ignoring my larger point (and final paragraph.) and are replying to just one part of what I’m saying. You did the same thing to Razgriz. That’s what I’m talking about. I don’t want you to leave the thread, I love having this discussion with you. You’re intelligent and passionate both, which are two very amazing qualities to have. Heck, just before my post you were tirelessly helping Iris. That’s awesome! And I really don’t want to see that, you, gone from this thread.

But if our allies and potential allies see us as not worth their time or emotional energy, they don’t stick around. And as I said earlier, the trans community can’t survive without outside help. That’s why I argue for patience and openness. It hurts, it hurts in ways most won’t believe, but it’s a sacrifice many of us have to make in order to create a safer world for future generations within the trans community.

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I read it. But I still want to leave.

I’ve been against this belief for a long time. We were only given rights because we rioted in the first place.

Yes, because as we all know, cis feelings trump trans lives. That cis people aren’t going to help other human beings if we don’t act like pure, ascended, emotionless expository entities in their prescence.

I don’t want to sit on my ass all day explaining, sourcing, being demure to every single cis person ever, whether or not they mean well. I am sick of it and I am sick of the cis 99.9% expecting me to cater to them. I am so tired. I am so tired of existing in this world.

How many of us have to die for being ourselves before we’re allowed to be angry, Lotus? How many of us have to be set on fire, burned by acid, raped, shot up, knifed, sent to mental institutes, commit suicide, before we’re allowed to be angry? Before I’m allowed to be closed-off and impatient?

Because I’ve been told, by cis folks, even on this very forum, including a mod, ā€œmaybe if you weren’t so angry all the time you wouldn’t be abused (for being trans).ā€ As if that excuses it.

You be patient. You talk patiently with the cis folks, I’m done.

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People would be more likely to try and be understanding of your situation if you didn’t lash out in anger at them all the time. That’s something completely different.

(Not you specifically. As a general rule of thumb. There are always exceptions, of course.)

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Many of us cis people (on this forum at least) genuinely want to understand/help trans people. One of my best friends is non binary, we had a civil discussion about and we both benefited from it. Though people like me are less likely to try and understand if we’ve seen people get snapped at for saying the wrong thing or even asking in the first place.

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Here’s the thing: this is an internet forum which, by definition, means that it is a place, meeting, or medium where ideas and views on a particular issue can be exchanged. Justified as your anger might be, unless you manage to channel it in such a way that is productive to the discussion, it does little more than skew the perspective of the other participants. If your instinct is to pounce on the slip-up or misconception of a fellow forumgoer, call them out, and then proceed to berate them for feeling attacked, you are not having a discussion. Using intimidation tactics (i.e. calling someone out) literally does nothing but harm your public image and paint you as someone interested only in browbeating others into submission.

Providing your singular opinion/input and then demanding that all other participants on this forum accept it unquestioningly as fact, without providing any sources and leaving no room for argument or debate, is not a discussion. Valid as your argument may be, if you are unable or unwilling to provide documentation assisting your case, forumgoers have absolutely no means of determining if what you’re saying is sound and have every right to question what you’re saying. This applies to every. single. person. on this forum regardless of how they identify as in any way, shape, or form. It’s simple etiquette.

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On a different note, why are cis people who are accepting of Transgender/Non binary people called allies? I figured we’d just be called friends. Did we join a war that’s going on? Are we now the bannermen of the transgender alliance? If so I sadly have very few resources to offer.

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An ally tries to spread awareness, tolerance, and acceptance despite not being part of the LGBTA+ community. A friend might not. Can you be a friend and an ally? You sure can. :wink:

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