I just wanted to add that if you go way back to old English around 800 years ago, the word for witch was “wicce”, and its masculine form was “wicca”. The use of “wicca” for male witches died out around 500 years ago and was replaced by other words like wizard, sorcerer and warlock. Since wizard was originally the word for a wise man or sage, it has traditionally had the most positive connotation of them all, and with warlock originally being a deceiver or traitor, it has traditionally had the most negative.
I’d like to point out that midwifery was considered a form of witchcraft for a long time because it diminished the rightful pain and punishment of the “original sin”.
When the Christians hunted us all down for this or that heresy, we lost generations of knowledge. The kind of feminine, herbal and spiritual knowledge that had existed and been known for hundreds of years. Gone. In an instant. Can you imagine how much we lost? We’re supposed to give birth squatting, any witch can tell you that, but imagine what we didn’t recover!
Long, long ago you would have had witches in your courts or councils. Think… think Pendragon Rising, pretty much. They were the tie to the gods, the healers, the midwives, the priests, the apothecaries and the survivalists all rolled into one. And though it’s true we’re not seen in the spotlight anymore, it’s partially out of choice.
We stay where the world is oldest, usually. City witches are rare. You have to be close to nature to be close to the craft.
I understand and am okay with keeping the feminity aspect but really, as a trans, non-female witch it’s like… gender lock…
Excuse me but…that’s fucking radical
Oh and welcome back Bagel, the place wasn’t as fun without you around.
[quote=“Bagelthief, post:155, topic:19918, full:true”]
I’d like to point out that midwifery was considered a form of witchcraft for a long time because it diminished the rightful pain and punishment of the “original sin”. [/quote]
Witchcraft was banned under pain of death, but to my knowledge midwifery was never banned. There were periods of time when midwives were looked at with a bit of suspicion by the church, most especially when abortions were suspected or word got out that a midwife had botched the Last Rites for a stillborn birth, because thanks to St. Augustine’s take on Original Sin it was believed for a long time that stillborn children were hellbound if they didn’t get properly performed Last Rites in time. So the church at times came down like a ton of bricks on some poor illiterate midwives who were blamed for “causing” childrens’ souls to get sent to hell. Then there are the aggrieved mothers and fathers looking for someone to blame for their stillborn child, as well as church and government officials eager to silence a politically active midwife for whom the charge of witchcraft is convenient. Finally there is a long historical association between poisonings and witchcraft going all the way back to the Old Testament, and abortifacients tended to get looked upon as poisons, so clearly that midwife who helped that poor girl get an abortion must be a satan-worshiping witch. And if someone were suddenly to drop dead suspiciously, a woman whose herb lore was known to include knowledge of naturally occurring poisons could potentially jump to the top of the suspect list if someone wanted to pin the blame on her.
The three great Abrahamic faiths have historically been hostile to supernatural effects not credited to the creator as they see him. They have tended to conflate all other sources with demons or the Devil.
Unfortunately very little is known regarding the practice of the various flavors of ancient witchcraft, aside from some extremely biased accounts written by Christians with an axe to grind. In the time of Arthur during the late 5th and early to mid 6th century CE, England and Wales were considered Christianized due to over 350 years of Roman rule, although Paganism still lurked in the countryside, most especially amongst the Picts north of Hadrian’s Wall and among the Celts in Ireland. Furthermore the Angle and Saxon invaders were pagans themselves whom Arthur is credited with defeating at the Battle of Badon. (The Angles and Saxons themselves later accepted Christianity in the 7th century CE.) The Britain of Arthurian times was thus an intriguing hodge-podge of Christianity and Paganism. Unfortunately we know almost nothing factual about Arthur’s rule. The legends were first set to paper centuries later, and they’ve both grown and changed over the past millennium.
The connection between modern witchcraft and ancient witchcraft is unfortunately a tenuous one, and the degree to which the practice of witchcraft today resembles the practice of witchcraft in times of old is a subject of debate.
The midwives, apothecaries, and priests/shamans of China and other East Asian nations had their practices and knowledge continued for millennia almost uninterrupted. Chinese/East Asian herbal lore is just as extensive, if not more, as the “witches” of ancient and medieval Europe. But neither herbs nor acupuncture can help save a dying mother or infant during a C-section due to obstructed labor or a breech birth. There is a reason why all Chinese midwives and even TCM practitioners today are trained in “Western” medicine.
The knowledge of the medieval “wise women” is not lost, and we have gained far beyond them in fact. Doctors, nurses, and midwives are not fazed from birth complications that meant certain death in this ancient time that you consider so advanced. We can perform infant-saving C-sections without 9 out of 10 mothers losing their lives in the procedure. The scientific world today is aware of all the plants and fungi that could be known to a medieval European herbalist, and all of their chemical compositions and medicinal properties. A quick google search reveals that 40% of our prescription medicines come from either plant extract or synthesized chemical compounds bioidentical to those found in plants. Medicine is “modern” medicine is medicine.
Your scenario of “witches” being on councils and the like does not seem likely. For one, are we speaking of only pre-Christian Europe? And what exactly defines a “witch” and who’s “we”? Are you also identifying with Korean shamans, Indian magicians, or the truly evil witches in many African cultures? The modern white Neo-Pagan depiction of wise hermit women in medieval Europe passing down a pre-Christian craft and belief system throughout the generations is not based in historical fact. The spinster herbalists and midwives targeted in some witch hunts were exclusively of Christian faith. The modern witch and modern Neo-Pagan witchcraft is a recent belief system. One which takes inspiration from ancient sources, but recent nonetheless.
I wouldn’t mind MC’s gender. I don’t play as myself anyway and I don’t think gender is such a big deal. The story is the one that matters.
I’m not sure. The lack of a gender variable in Diabolical bugged me the few times I played it, to be honest, but Congresswolf doesn’t have a gender variable, either, and I don’t mind at all. What I don’t like is genderlocked MCs.
If someone has already said this then I apologize for repeating, but there’s an nb/nb genderlocked romance in Versus: The Elite Trials!
So culturally Spanish club to Hammit up!! That does explain your historically fancy titles.
I like that the different gender perspectives where are these different Social expectations
Speaking of guys @Goshman it’s doing that multi generational dynastic series. He just released the demo of the second one and he using gender lock in the series and when the most appropriate way I seen. I said the first one takes place in the medieval like period, following the founder of this noble house. Through all the traditional trappings engines and pitfalls of power in that setting Still very well written. The sequel voice God takes place roughly some hundred odd years. It’s a very different game won your gender locked into a female role and not just that you’re not this Knight or noble lady. You’re playing as a nun. And your exploring The religious dimension of this world there female perspective during a very unstable time in the Mother holy church. I’m Honestly personally very excited about it. Even more interesting depending on what you know I miss you break in this game is depending on the choice of gender you will have In the third book.
Now I want to write a game where the MC gender options include:
- male in a male-dominant world
- male in a female-dominant world
- female in a female-dominant world
- female in a male-dominant world
And something similar for non-binary players? Must think on this more.
That seems like it would be like writing at least two different stories in one game. You could use gender flipping, but readers might be able to tell if it was written from one gender’s point of view like in Choice of Romance.
You could create your own world and culture, but you’d have to be keenly aware of the gender dynamics in your world. If ancestry is important and people are being arranged married to produce heirs and love is not important, a nobel MC who doesn’t want kids would logically face stigma and adoption wouldn’t be an option. The same goes for all female armies in a time before effective birth control.
The video about if gay was normal on YouTube has a lot of plotholes. A baby is made by two people (man,woman) and they usually have one child at a time. If the couple is each in a monogamous same sex relation, that one child has to be shared with four people which is a way different household style than the binary or single parents a lot of people are used to (well, unless they require everyone able to breed to produce babies and randomly give or sell them to two parent households). Hetero relationships may be harder to keep a secret if there is an unexpected pregnancy which could lead to more false rape accusations to avoid being attacked and beaten. Also, wouldn’t heteros be looked up on because they make it so that the gays don’t have to be forced into intimate opposite sex relationships that they find repulsive in order to keep the human race going? This was more about sexuality than gender, but lots of things have to be considered to create a realistic setting.
The way NPCs were written would also have to be considered, a person of the nondominant sex who wants equality might be thought of differently from a person of the dominant sex that still cares about equality even though they don’t personally face stigma.
Maybe, maybe not. A lot would depend on the nature of the story and setting. I think a big part of the point of such a story would be the difference in how the character is received … but don’t we do that sort of thing anyway with stat tests?
I’ll take it, where to I sign up, I’m tired of the current world
I do really like the idea of a choicescript game with a matriarchal society, for once. I might like it being one with a gender choice, but yeah, having male characters being the ones facing the brunt of sexism would add some welcome variety, and provide a change from our society.
I’d say that the real problem with that sort of story is not the setting inconsistencies (because most fictional settings have inconsistencies), but rather that it plays into the bigots’ world view. It’s “us against them”, and anything they do is justified, because if gays get their way, straights will be the ones who suffer (See! The video says so!)
In my mind, a much better story would be the story that depicts the world how it should be, i.e. everyone equal, without bigotry (whether based on sexuality, gender, race, or whatever).
As long as I’m not forced to marry some woman…
Hey! I do my part when it comes to male objectification.
Aww…but we love to have you here @Lizzy
The Nymph group in Keepers seems to have a mostly matriarchal tradition.
Welll, you’ll most always have some sort of social tension, and not just because it is damned near needed to keep the game interesting. Both @Havenstone 's and @Moreau 's game have societies radically different and far more gender egalitarian and tolerant than even our contemporary Western ones are. In both of them the main social divisions are caste/class based, instead of being gender, sexuality or race-based, though in XoR the mostly artificially enforced divisions between the various subject peoples do play a part, but nowhere near as pervasive as the caste/class based ones.
I don’t think that would be implied. There’s all sorts of ways the society could be structured. I just think it’s a bit imbalanced if we see patriarchal settings but never matriarchal ones… it makes it seem like the former is somehow more “normal.” Of course, actual equality would be the real ideal, but if we feel like exploring some alternative society possibilities, it would be a nice possibility to include. It gets a bit samey to always see the justification that “women have no power in this society,” but never the reverse. The idea that, if one gender is dominant, it must inherently be men, is really uncomfortable. And, yeah, there’s no end of ways that it could be implemented.
(I would feel concerned about nonbinary inclusion, but that could still be possible, depending on how you write it and yeah, I’m sure there’s lots of ways you’d need to be careful to avoid the writing itself being sexist, but that’s true for anything, sadly )
Appreciated go team!
I personally think it is. I am very rooted to the character I create, and I often have to imagine myself being them. I can see myself as a knight storming castle walls, or a spy/agent recovering pieces of intel, or just an average joe, but I have to be a guy while doing it. It’s the main reason why I love the Infinity series but I don’t think I’ll be playing Lords of Aswick II. Nothing against a gender locked female game or a genderless game, I just like to be acknowledged as a guy because it’s who I am.
I just finished up taking Apologetical I notice even Egalitarian Society little bit of patriarch of sneak in. No matter what type of society there is always some type of “big man” figure that sneak in their. Now mind you there power may vary depending on society but in a more matricial one or straight matriarchy as we can get we may be chosen by the women but men will still get last say. You can look at for example the tribes of the southeast you would inherit through your mother family. She may be respected but man will still inherit the main position leadership. And honestly no one has a clear theory why this happens.