ffs, you just summarized all three of my essays into one sentence why can’t I do that the fuck.
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Sorry ^^;
Pragmatism, i guess
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I have zero interest at all in being able to be physcially, emotionally, or in any other way abusive even if it is only in a video game that I play all alone.
Speaking as a victim of abuse though, I could be interested in a game where my character at one point or another is in an abusive relationship. It’s too big of a topic to treat lightly,or as a side plot, Dealing with surviving, escaping, or even turning the tables on your abuser would have to be the main story of the game.
I’m sure this isn’t your intention, but any story about my character learning to accept, or love their abuser would be…I can’t think of a strong enough way to say…offensive.
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I am totally against a game portrait abuse and even worse make you abuse others. 99% is terrible handle and only causes pain to people whom really suffered.
Most of people take this as LOLZ I WANT MAKE A GRITTY STORY… Gritty always ended mean raping and or abusive behavior against women and ornon binary trans lesbian etc… or against minories.
If the game is made with people who knows and trying to make awareness of situation of the minorities etc i am on board. If is just fiction to cause joy or something i found a bad taste and a bad example for teens. Why not focus in trying to make a better representative world
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Personally I don’t see anything wrong with the choices. I guess it matters on how it’s written.
This is fiction and I think as long as it’s clear that you know, this is a bad thing. yea, I don’t see a problem with it.
Especially if it’s a game where you play an actual murderous villain. Abuse isn’t always physical, could be manipulative and shit too.
Like having certain side characters call out the RO or your behavior would be a good idea to add if you’re thinking of adding these scenes.
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If you have a sole character call things out while the others and the game shrug things off/treat them as normal something is amiss.
I’m looking at my own game atm. The mc’s background involves their spouse/in-law/family being abusive, manipulative fcks.
There’s an RO who did suffer abuse from their spouse’s colleagues.
But in either case it is clear that the char has gotten out of it and is therefore better off.
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As long as the game isn´t about leaving this RO, it would be an absolute no-go for me. And even if it was about escapeing this RO I´m not sure, if I would like to play it. For me being abusive has nothing to do with love. It´s only my opinion, other people might like it, but I just don´t.
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F*** no. No matter how neutral you are as a writer, abuse is NOT something you let people do because it promotes it, no matter how you look at it. Even a game about redeeming an abuser is bad because it implies that as long as he ends up being ok, everything is forgiven. I despise that “redemption by love” trope.
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I wouldn’t go in that matter as extremely, but it is something hard to pull off to feel right, I think I would say.
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I would like to play realism over fantasy. That said, I think cog/hg should have more detective- mystery games
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Think Highlands would be the best one in that regard.
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Definitely! But it’s the only one I could think of that really delves in mystery and gore. I’d love more games like that!
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Popcorn, Soda… Murder works too but it’s less dark and serious. Plus, shorter, but you get more chances to deduct and piece clues compared to the former.
P.S. I know it’s off track for the thread so I’ll end the discussion.
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I didn’t mean like literally one character, was just using that as an example y’know?
Your game sounds interesting, It’ll be interesting to see how it turns out
I would definitely not like to play out an abusive relationship. There are plenty of ways to make things imperfect/different without resorting to that.
Rivalmance? Bring it on. RO who’s evil to others but nice to MC? Cool, let’s be evil together. RO who has to unwillingly harm MC for a much greater good? Fatehaven did this with Silvanus, and I loved him. RO whose relationship is sometimes turbulent, but MC can easily ditch them, or stick with it for a happy ending they both want? I’ve replayed Heroes Rise five times, and five times picked Black Magic.
I think that people go into a romance with the general expectation it’ll be something positive for their character, so if that wouldn’t be the case, you’d need to make it absolutely clear upfront, or there’d be a lot of upset caused.
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In Mass Mother Murderer, the relationships with the 4 ROs can largely play out like regular romances on the surface. Behind the scenes, though, the MC would just be using them to blend in, or for sex, or to manipulate them for other personal gain, etc. For the most part, the MC’s abuse towards their girlfriend/boyfriend would be limited to manipulation and minor emotional/verbal abuse, as they have to be careful to not draw too much attention to themselves.
And yes, I’m definitely making a point to show that I would never condone any of the MC’s evil actions.
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Abuse and its portrayal in fiction/fantasy relationships is one of those topics that could (in theory) be handled by a writer/developer of HG works. I doubt the CoG staff would approve a CoG official game involving abuse in a relationship unless the game promoted the values and ethos that this company strives to bring into gaming.
@MultipleChoice is right in saying you must separate real life from fiction and fantasy. The trouble with doing so is magnified by the IF mechanics themselves and this is the real issue. Giving choice to abuse or be abused is treading down a path full of landmines, any of which may explode on you as a writer/developer.
Experienced writers (or talented writers) can navigate the minefields of such a relationship but even they can misstep - @Elena_H 's Doner WiP is such a work. Exploring the relationship between the female MC and the two Captor vampires is a delicate balancing act. So is Multiplechoice’s Samurai series.
There are some lines I feel that no writer of IF should cross over.
1st - Consent vs Forced. This is where I feel @MultipleChoice’s Jun/Junko fails - the character’s abuse is forced upon the reader, regardless of consent and it is done in a graphical and triggering manner for many people. This character may attract some but it also repels just as many. Devon crossed the line for me and lost me as a reader because of it.
Elena’s abuse is forced just as much as Multiplechoice’s but the approach is tempered by the author’s desire to avoid triggering as many people as possible. Elena, so far, has been able to avoid crossing that line for me and I continue to support her effort by providing feedback; so far she has been very receptive to that.
2nd - Realistic depictions vs Fantastical depictions. 50 Shades of Grey may have succeeded to some extent because of its fantasy attraction to an ignorant and naive audience but every non-vanilla individual I spoke to about this laughed the movie and its sequel off as so full of bull droppings that to a person, they thought it did more harm then good for those in that lifestyle. People looking to “experience” this stuff after watching this movie came into the scene with totally messed up expectations and desires.
A CS author/developer needs to be able to skirt that line without crossing it - more on this later.
Then you have the question of: does the game belong among the general audience titles or should it be behind the Adult Content gateway. This is something that is very important to consider. What I would view as acceptable in the latter category, I’d not consider acceptable in the former.
This is a topic that I would urge most not to attempt. Quite frankly most of us are not trained or have the experience to write about this topic both successfully and responsibly. When you explore a topic as a writer, you have a moral responsibility to your readers not to become an enabler.
People seeking abuse sometimes are in need of help. Exploring this topic irresponsibly is enabling these people to abuse themselves and the choice mechanics can be too easily used in such a manner by well intentioned but non-trained/non-expert writers.
The Netflix series 13 Reasons Why is such a series that explores suicide. Most of those involved with suicide from a health professional and preventive side think that this series is an enabler series. Netflix is happy to get the publicity and the profits resulting from such a show. Choice of Games as a company I am pretty confident in saying, would not.
People usually say this about gender choice and preference as well. That doesn’t mean this company and community should follow along with the rest of the gaming/fiction industry. In fact, I would say, it is very important to be sensitive over because this company focuses on giving voice to those who may be voiceless or shout down by the majority.
I am sure that many, if not most of us can share experiences or real life stories touching on abuse that would horrify each other. When fiction/fantasy has the possibility to enable, encourage, promote or normalize abuse, there needs to be caution, nuance and ability exercised by the writer.
Most writers will not have the expertise or experience in doing this on their own so they would need to get an advisor or two. Not only that but I would urge any writer thinking of doing this to find a good mix of testers because thoroughly testing and fine tuning the game will be essential.
One other thing: Shows like Dexter or games like @Samuel_H_Young’s MMM or @Shawn_Patrick_Reed’s Monsters are different because they are upfront with the situation and the authors are making efforts to show that they do not condone nor wish to enable what they are writing about.
Disclaimer - I speak only for myself in this post and I am not staff here at CoG. My views on what would be or would not be allowed are my views only and should not be taken as CoG official stances or positions. ( I hate lawyer speak @idonotlikeusernames).
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Sure, both ways. I usually play choice games as an OC, and most of them are flawed/terrible people, which can be difficult to play in a choice game, particularly where romance is concerned since most ROs are very ‘safe’.
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Do three years of training after four (well five and a half in my case, but then I switched universities and didn’t exactly do it consecutively) of legal training and education at university and you’ll start to think differently. 
On the subject of the topic at hand, I imagine that some of my mc’s would definitely lean towards the kinkier side of sex in their relationships but it is very hard for an author to depict this correctly. So fade to black and leaving our own dirty minds to fill in the blanks maybe with a hint or two in casual dialogue is often both good enough and as good as it gets simultaneously when it comes to CoG or CRPG’s in general.
While I would love to see a more adult work depicting kinky(ier) gay sex done right that is not easy and would probably only be viable if such relationships are the center stage of the project. Still the most basic rule to remember with kink is consent, consent, consent..
Don’t overdo the psych through many people into kink are just seeking a good time (“boys just wanna have fun”)" and maybe a bit of exciting role-play. Some may be indicative of issues but most of them are not I’d say, apart from the one issue all kink-lovers still face and that is society judging you for it. I wouldn’t class the latter one as a serious issue though just because it violates centuries of conservative, patriarchal, religious doctrine and indoctrination.
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One thig is kinky role-playing (totally pro it) and other is real abuse and the portrait of torture. Kinky is fun due is CONSENSUAL. Consensual is fine ever if is the most bizarre practice ever. Abuse means is real, is force upon other and that’s never fine. I would love see kinky like people into feathers or that but nope everyone goes for the abuse tropes. There are millions of sexual fetish that are interesting but no avail. Everyone hasto go for same thing
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