I do not known if someone bring it up Choice of Robot. Some character are gender swapped but there not just gender swapped there different character which I honestly prefer. Personally love what is done in Golden Eagle that every character has there set sexuality. He really good and writing so far what feel like very organic romances same CoSP
There is no Gender Swap in Give of Robots, as you said, they are different characters so they do not count.
Doesn’t the stalker character change genders? Silas or Tammy?
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Ideally, I prefer when characters have a variety of sexual orientations. That can include bi/pan, being as those deserve representation as well. Even then, it’s best if the character really is bi/pan, and will actually represent that orientation whatever the main character’s gender. It’s all too common to see games where the bisexual love interests result in playthroughs with heterosexual characters being able to avoid any LGBT content whatsoever. That’s not really representing.
Representing more gay characters is important too… there was a post I wanted to quote on this awhile back, and, lo and behold, it turned out to be in this very thread:
The other thing is, this does depend on how many romance options there are. If there’s just two men and two women, for example, then yeah, probably best have them both be bi. Certainly if there’s any fewer than that. Not having any romance, or not having any romantic flexibility, on account of one’s gender-orientation combo, is no fun.
I’m of two minds about this 
On the one hand, there’s basically what you said, plus representation issues, plus the general issue of treating romance options as props for the player’s convenience.
The thing I do like about the gender flips is when it can go beyond gender stereotypes. I do like seeing how characters can be defined by personality traits and interests without those traits and interests being determined by their gender. It also can have the kind of nifty side effect that people who romance only male characters and people who romance only female ones can end up fans over the same character 
That said, I’m not sure it’s something I would ever do as a writer. I don’t really like flipping my characters around…
I think that’s something good to be aware of… it’s easy to inadvertently write in stereotypes at fairly subtle levels 
Huh I like guys, but I tend to find the “feminine” techniques of flirtation more attractive… those gestures generally seem like they have more allure built into them, and less macho posturing. I guess this is a difference where socialization comes in a lot.
This is an unpopular view, but I actually liked the gender-flipped characters in Affairs of the Court. Especially the monarch as a woman. I get sort of a Christina of Sweden vibe, and it’s really refreshing to see that kind of athleticism and power in the role of a woman.
I thought it worked well in Psy High and Midsummer Night’s Choice.
Actually, that’s one of the few characters where I tended to have trouble reading him as a male character rather than a female one with pronouns swapped. I’m not sure if this was me stereotyping, or the character just seeming to be in more of the social role that women pop stars tend to occupy than that men do… or if it’s just simply the fact that the variable in the code refers to Evelyn, not Evan.
Yes, and you always get the opposite gender version rather than being based on what gender the character seems to be going for, which always seemed odd to me…
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They are different person. Not a true gender swap like Black Magic.
Clearly people don’t worry if their gender is building killer or revolutionary robots.
Are you sure? I know their names are more different than most genderswap characters but I’ve always seen them as an example of genderswapping, and since it’s one or the other and they fill the same story role, do the same actions, I’m not sure what the distinction is
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They aren’t same, personality and several scenes working differently so is not a swap
I guess there’s a middle ground… they do look quite different, but they act and talk the same.
But even Eiji and his counterpart (I forget her name) act and talk about the same… but they both exist in the world and can potentially have met by the end…
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Having them switch genders actually messes up the immersion for me, because it makes it really obvious that it’s the game catering to what it thinks I want. (An explicitly genderfluid character, who changed their gender identity around for reasons that made sense to THEM rather than me clicking “I prefer women” or whatever, wouldn’t bug me.)
Also, while a person’s gender doesn’t define them, it’s often an important factor in their personality & outlook, etc. and when they’re deliberately written to always be the same except for name/pronouns/clothing, it makes them feel less real to me, and then I don’t care about romancing them at all.
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Well, I do agree with you that gender can be important to who people are, in terms of identity and their past (though more important for some people than others), and I’m also not so keen on “the game catering to what it thinks I want.” Nonetheless, I’m concerned when people rely too much on gender in characterization, especially when they try to hard to write a character being “like a woman” or “like a man” because that can feed into the idea that women and men are essentially certain ways. I’ve seen plenty of times when a man tries to write a woman and she seems entirely preoccupied by feminine things, and a few cases where a woman’s tried to write a man and the opposite has happened. Not that that’s what you’re saying; I just think it’s something that’s important to be careful about. So while it’s something that does influence how characters have been treated, and even what roles they might expect to have, I’d be wary of making it too big a factor, either. (And if you’re writing in a different society than ours… these expectations might not be there anyway 
)
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:sniffle: 
So excited to read this, thank you! I LOVE our Sid and the funny thing is, when we first started the story, Sidney was more male in my mind. Not only because Tony came up with the character as male in the rough outline before we decided to make it switchable, but also because of the way English gender pronouns work, it was easier/clearer for me to code as ${he}/${his}/${him}/etc. But then I largely playtested the game with Sidney as a female to make sure the code was correct and I ended up loving female Sidney just as much, if not more.
I honestly think a huge part of the reason Sidney works is because you have that experience input from both Tony and myself, making sure you get diverse contributions. Glad to see others feel the same, because I can definitely picture Sidney either way, easily.
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I also code all characters with ${he}–when I started writing I noticed that pesky her-possessive being the same as her-object!
I always fear that people will look at the code and say “ah ha! These characters are all really meant to have masculine pronouns in the eyes of the writer!”
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I haven’t read all the responses, so this has probably already been said, but I feel like a lot of gender switching’s success has to do with personality type? Of course, no one subscribes to their ‘gender’ completely, but readers (and writers) often accept certain traits and actions more readily as ‘male’ or ‘female’.
In my own game the ‘beast’ can be male, female or gender fluid because, although they are their own person, I felt like a) they have a lot of ‘genderless’ qualities-- quiet, polite, and a little bit sullen. You could literally use these words to describe anyone. b) a lot of the backstory that defines them is genderless. Turning into an animal is not a male or female sort of situation, haha.
I thought about swapping the Sorcerer, too, because he could be a woman… but his personality is just he slightest tinge more masculine, and I felt it was enough that people would pick up on it?
I think this is why in, say, A Midsummer’s Night’s Dream, I buy Prenzie as a man or a woman-- they’re funny, flippant and loyal. Like I said before, literally anyone. But the Red Knight feels very masculine to me, and though Morgan can go either way, like the Sorcerer, I feel as if they’re tinged just female enough that I usually keep them that way.
The trick is riding that line I suppose?
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Though there is still one other little pesky distinction… “hers.” Just using “his” doesn’t distinguish when you’d use “hers.”
Though, from what I’ve seen, it doesn’t look like “hers” comes up that much anyway lots of games get by just fine without reserving a variable for it.
I have main character pronouns coded for ${e}, ${em}, ${eir}, and ${eirs}… Sea Eternal’s code also has neopronouns… can’t remember if any other ones do…
The Maroon Knight just seemed to me like a kindly older lady with a military background. 
This just makes me want to write more gender-specific characters whose traits and actions read the opposite way from their gender identity 
more men who “act like women” and more women who “act like men.” And lots and lots of characters who have traits that would be associated with both 
I bet if you wrote a character just like me but then rewrote him so as to be gender-flippable, a lot of readers would think the character “leaned female” and would not be a realistic male portrayal 
I believe we need a greater variety to show that while gender is about who you feel you are, it isn’t about what you like or what you do.
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Definitely! Often times I write characters and then flip their genders before I dig too deep into their background.
I probably should have stated this originally, but I do prefer set gender characters because built in prejudices aren’t allowed to get in the way.
I think it was the way in which they pined for you that set off my masculine alarms? Woman pine as well, of course, but for some reason the way they went about it was different.
I should think about why, because I can’t quite articulate it?
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[quote=“iris, post:293, topic:23002”]
I probably should have stated this originally, but I do prefer set gender characters because built in prejudices aren’t allowed to get in the way.[/quote]
It does seem like a set character who’s going against stereotype counts for more, since otherwise the reader could just say “oh, that’s not really a wo/man”
Sometimes I like to randomize some attributes and traits in order to help with balance… ah, and also sometimes just because I find it really fun… I’m secretly a bit of a randomization geek 
I suppose, could it have to do with courtly love? Traditionally, that would entail a nobleman devoting himself to a lady, selflessly, even if it’s hopeless… in much the same way this character does. The lady would be more a figure of admiration. So the Maroon Knight is very much acting like a very chivalrous man. But since I’d be reading this as a society in which wellborn ladies being knights is a normal thing, this didn’t throw me off as much (I mean, this is even a society in which gay marriage is possible, albeit some eyebrows may still be raised if a noble wants to marry a haberdasher jester…)
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Some games don’t have you select your gender. You can choose available romances or deny them. Sometimes if you pursue one and you are not there desired gender then they will reject you.
I can’t remember which ones have that at the top of my head, but there is one or two with that.
I prefer ro’s having a set gender normally. It just feels unnatural to me when a gender flips purely so you can romance them.
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I can sometimes see the use of having a RO rely on your taste but I typically like their gender and sexuality to be set. When it’s the other way I feel like I’m forcing the character to be something, weird maybe but that’s literally how I see it.
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I agree with @ToxicDreams. The world and characters feel much more like their own beings if they have their own preferences and a fixed gender. Otherwise you get the feeling that they’re just there to be romanced by you. I don’t want every character in the game to be my sex slave. Not to mention with a set gender/sexuality you can add a lot more depth to the character and romance. You can’t write a character that feels like a real person if you don’t even know their gender, and having to account for every possible gender/orientation combination makes the romance feel a lot more bland and generic.
IMO, the only acceptable reason to gender swap ROs is if you simply don’t want to put a lot of work into romances. If you want to focus on something else, that’s fair enough, but don’t expect to blow anyone away with your blank-slate characters and generic romances.
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