Gender-locking ROs, gender flipping, and importance of gender in relationships

Oh dear, you two continue to confound me. :confounded: :stuck_out_tongue:
But now I know Americans who don’t touch guns usually live in New York City, right? Maybe we even know some of the same Dutch expats. :wink:

lol that sounds like my talk with Alistair “Look, this is political, I’m not going to let you touch me and you have no power. I will be running the country and I’m still with Leliana…oh and go sleep with Morrigan so I don’t die when I kill the Arch demon” Ahh it’s good to be Queen :wink:

The author of the critique seems more angry that Killerman is a “white cis het guy” than anything else. That phrase or something equivalent was used as a perjorative five times in the linked article. If Killermann’s genderbread man is “creepy” as the author of the critique states, than the author is free to make an alternative and encourage others to use the alternative. All Killerman seems to be doing is attempting to make a living off of his advocacy. Not everyone is so privileged that they can work for free, even when doing something they love.

As for the charge of plagiarism, Killerman made his own genderbread graphic which he clearly put some time into, and has continued to develop, as he’s produced newer versions. He doesn’t own the underlying ideas or concepts, nor does he pretend to as far as I can tell. He hasn’t attempted to trademark the term “genderbread person” and he acknowledges that he originally picked up the idea elsewhere. He only owns the graphic he himself has created, which I think is fair. And if it’s such a “creepy” graphic, than don’t use it. If there are flaws in it, enlighten him, or make your own. Nevertheless, I just don’t see what’s so terrible that a “cis white het guy” whose heart seems to be in the right place happened to be the one to have made it.

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It would have been better to actually see the people from those minority groups taking the lead and media attention and TED talk accolades, etc on this.
Speaking as a member of a minority group myself, even if it is just white cisgay guys, this just feels incredibly patronising.
However I also think it says something unfortunate about the (American)mass media again as it is likely that they were waiting for a “relatable” straight white guy to turn into the poster-boy on this and if not Killerman they’d probably have waited for someone else (straight, white and likely male), as they did not and do not seem ready to actually let minority groups take the lead on this and risk turning one of them into a (minor) celebrity. :disappointed::unamused:

A white straight guy, advocating, crusading even for us poor, hapless minorities fits into their narratives (and no doubt makes American liberals feel good/better about themselves), us standing up for ourselves, not so much. :unamused:

As to mr. Killerman’s motives, I don’t feel like I’m in a position to judge those. What he, factually did is just about as dodgy as pharmaceutical patents though, it is just different enough that it qualifies as new and unique under the law, but not different enough to really feel new, particularly to those already acquainted with the older/ predecessor versions of it.

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Something to keep in mind is

Transgender people are four times more likely to live in poverty.
Transgender people experience unemployment at twice the rate of the general population, with rates for people of color up to four times the national unemployment rate. Transgender FAQ | GLAAD

I wouldn’t call that privileged at all. I’m sure there are numerous transgender people, who would absolutely love to be paid for doing advocacy work.

It’s got to sting that this man, who has not credited his sources, is being held up as an authority on the subject, and is being paid to speak on the matter of gender and sexuality.

I think if you want an example of things done right, well Choice of Games does it right.

Yeah that’s got to sting too.

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Where’s the Love button? /slams Like multiple times/ u two are too good

But seriously now, the fact that @P_Tigras just overlooked the main point of the article and got stuck up on the “cishet white male” language instead is a perfect case-in-point of privilege and ignorance surrounding what actually happens to transgender people outside and in the trans community.

This isn’t the first time something’s been stolen from us and marketed by a “relatable” poster-cis, either.

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I’m reminded of a Ralph Waldo Emerson quote, “There is no limit to what can be accomplished if it doesn’t matter who gets the credit.” I’ll leave it at that.

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I’m reminded of a Desmond Tutu quote: “If you are neutral in situations of injustice, you have chosen the side of the oppressor. If an elephant has its foot on the tail of a mouse and you say that you are neutral, the mouse will not appreciate your neutrality."

I’ll leave it at that.

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I have to say, that quote used in this circumstance feels a lot like saying, ‘I’m okay with people of your group achieving equal pay/rights/presence in the world, as long as you’re okay that the only people who make money off of it, get fame from it, and whom I have to look at are people from my group.’

And, in the end, that kinda misses the point…

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No, I was speaking just as much of Killerman’s desire to take credit for his pretty little graphic as I was about the critic’s anger that Killerman received any credit at all. The desire for credit is human nature, but squabbling over it can be short-sighted and self-defeating.

I’m a practical person who tends to take a big picture view of things. Is it really worth slowing down “the achievement of equal pay/rights/presence in the world” just to ensure that the people who make money off it on the way there all belong to the appropriate identity group? I’d say no, but it feels to me like you’re saying yes.

I’m not saying yes or no. That’s not really my business.

I was saying that the context of your quote caused its meaning to expand beyond what you clearly intended. Thought you’d like to know.

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Fair enough. Thank you then for pointing it out and affording me the opportunity to clarify.

It’s also noteworthy that they might not be taken as seriously if they weren’t white, cis and male. Doesn’t make it good, and shouldn’t be called out for it, but it’s a factor none the less.

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More likely “definitely not” if it’s obvious that trans people did similar things much earlier and only now is the cis man the sole person getting credit - and money - for it.

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That’s because the media have done and still are doing their best to tell us not to take anyone unconventional seriously.
While this is about politics you could also apply it to activism or anything else where the media presumes to tell us what “good” people ought to think.
My law school teachers used to say that the law has an inherent, conservative bias, but I’m starting to think the media are even worse at that these days. :unamused:

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You know this remember me Bill halley and the comets and Elvis Presley. Both are considered. The father’s of Rock and roll and the King … But they werent first or even the better quality talking… BUT THEY WERE WHITE Rock and roll never get big success until white guys sing and dance it. Before that it was a black rhythm so evil and unpromising commercially. It is true there were black artists but they sold in other lists and were ill paid. My personal idea is if Chuck Berry were white Elvis still in Tupelo …

Long live the duck walking.

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That doesn’t sound like a good comparison to me, since the mouse would not care if you try to help it anyway, plus either way its tail was crushed. It seems like an excuse to blame someone to me due to an unfair situation for the mouse.

It was still evil while they were doing it, with Elvis’s pelvic thrusts. The evilness just switched over to it being sexual for a time.

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yes, but it was enough cool to go Edd Sullivan show and sell in main stream. Same will happen with Trans and nb they are not listen until a more Popularity white male or white female take the cause. Think is insulting in a way. Like you aren’t nb or trans so help them to get awareness not Take the main spot to make you famous using other people problems.

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Hi, me again, sorry for being a bother with yet another question I should probably figure out for myself, but I want another bout of second opinions.

Do any of you prefer it when the love interest in these games have set sexual/romantic orientations, or would you rather all your options being bi no matter what sex and gender you are?

See, I personally prefer it when characters have their own orientations, it makes them seem more real to me. With a group of friends with such variances in sexual interest, I just believe that it is more realistic for my characters to not all be bi/pansexual.

At the same time, I understand why someone would make all the love interests bi/pan.

This is something I’ve tried to figure out on my own for a while, you see for a wip I’m currently working on, most characters are, in fact, bi or pan in some shape or form. The problem is there are two characters that are homosexual and heteroromantic respectively. I don’t know why I’ve had so much trouble deciding whether to keep them as is, or make them bi/pan like the rest of the characters.

I think it’s because I’ve always imagined these characters this way; as initially the story wasn’t going to be written in choicescript.

So, my question is, do you think it’s better for each love interest to have their own defined sexual and romantic orientation? Would it just be better to stop my panicking and make them all bi already?

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@ExquisitePumpkin
I’d prefer if the characters have their own romantic and sexual orientation. I find it more realistic than everyone being bi.