Gay Representation in ChoiceScript games?

But doesn’t also makes sense that there are so few gays characters? After all 95% of the population is straight so it’s actually pretty realistic, no?

I’ m pretty sure, that there are much less straight people than 95%, as far as I know there a a lot of bi people out there. :smiley:

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Well, it would depend on the character, but that’s certainly one way to do it. There are issues with it, however. Not all characters will have exes; a bi character certainly doesn’t need same-gender exes to be bi. And, as @poison_mara says, not everyone wants to hear about their crush’s exes. :stuck_out_tongue_winking_eye:

Well, firstly, the proportion of straight people isn’t that high (as @Kaelyn says); I’ve seen estimates that 30–50% of people may be slightly bi (even if it is subconscious). And even if you assume a conservative estimate, the LGBTQ proportion of the population would be ~10%, which is a lot higher than the proportion of canonically LGBTQ characters in fiction.

But, honestly, the exact numbers aren’t really the issue here. It’s not about filling quotas, it’s about knowing that the writers acknowledge us, that we exist – are allowed to exist – in their stories. It’s about letting us be major parts of those stories, too, not just some minor background nobody.

And it’s not just to make us feel good about ourselves (although there’s nothing wrong with that). It’s also important; to show closeted LGBTQ people that they don’t have to hate themselves; and to show homophobes that really, we’re just like them, not some dangerous other species. :slight_smile:

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Narrative doesn’t have to conform to demographics, even if that 95% were the case. Representation and interesting story and characters is its own good.

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In real live there aren’t any dragons, superheroes, vampires, magic etc. either (at least as far as I know). And no one bats an eye if they appear in fictional stories. But when it comes to sexuality, (or gender etc.) it suddenly must be realistic? :man_shrugging::roll_eyes:

I’m very happy that female characters, gay characters and other minorities get to play important and/or prominent roles in CoG-stories and that the player has the choice to be lgbt. This inclusiveness is part of CoG’s image and unlike Bioware (Mass Effect Andromeda, I’m looking at you) they really mean and live it. In every official CoG – correct me if I’m wrong – you can play as woman and/or lgbt. This inclusiveness is also part of the reason why this forum has (compared to other gaming sites/forums) so many lgbt and/or female players. It’s because these stories make us feel welcome. They respect us and treat us equally to everyone else.
As a gay male I didn’t really had any gay role models growing up. They either didn’t exist or were minor characters who didn’t get lots of screen time and were often just stereotypes. I’m very happy that nowadays sites/companies like choice of games exist. They treat everyone equal and everyone gets the same opportunities. You don’t have to be the male knight who tries to save the kidnapped princess (not that anything is wrong with it). But you can also play as a female knight who goes on an adventure to save her princess. Or you can be a gay knight who saves his prince. This inclusiveness feels awesome. Never in my life did I feel as included in fiction as in Choice of Games stories. As a minority, this gives me and I’m sure many other lgbt or female players the feeling, that I matter, that I can be just as good and or important than any other person. That just because I might be gay, I still matter. :smile: Therefore I think making all players feel welcome is more important than realistic numbers. :smile:

@The_Lady_Luck
Honestly, I’m not the biggest fan of flings either but I guess I don’t mind them too much. I’m just scarred that I end up liking the character with whom I can have a fling more than the actual romance option…which would lead to heartbreak :sweat_smile: In my opinion I prefer the 2/x/2 approach (1 straight male, 1 straight female, x bi/pan, 1 lesbian and 1 gay male). Preferably with characters who are all kinda equal in terms of importance.

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It’s not this recent survey has the rate up to 22% of Latino Americans and those things are likely under-reported because they rely on self-reporting. Also the US as a whole is still a conservative and religious country, so that likely depresses the rate of self-reporting at least somewhat too. Especially outside of urban-America.

In Amsterdam I think about 40% of post-millennials identify as some form of non straight and I expect the rate to be even higher if you were to only look at more progressive places such as the cities of California or New York in the US among young(er) people. As people tend to only self-report as non-straight if they feel safe doing so and know they’re not likely to suffer socioeconomic penalties for it.

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In fact I have discovered here that i am demiromantic? Is called that? It basically means that I don’t have sex interest except if I have a real confidence in that guy and trust. I have real problem to trust men due I have a terrible love life to point I am not really interested on it in real life.

I really believe that the pure straight doesn’t exist or is rare. Even if I never had desire for girls but I think i probably had been interested in nb in my youth. Nowadays I have zero interest in being cheated again so all my relationship are in fiction were is safe

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Honestly, in a way I feel like the ‘playersexyal/bisexual’ RO’s are pretty realistic, 'cause there’s maybe one or two people in my circle who would identify as straight, while for straight people it seems to be the other way around.

After all, I don’t go around sharing my sexuality with people I don’t get close to, so I bet they think I’m straight at work. Little do they know…

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Touché.

I understand. Maybe a reason for this lack of homosexual characters is because most of the authors are not, in fact, gay (I think), so it may be hard for the writer to portray such a different perspective than their own.
Just a thought.

Exactly.
I’m dating a guy, so most people assume I’m a straight cis-woman.

But the same people have no problem writing an alien, or an elf, or an older person.
They’re uncomfortable doing so, because it’s not really done so much yet, so the way to change that is to make it more normal by doing it more. :blush:

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It’s really not that different a perspective, though? I addressed a similar issue in regards to male writers writing female characters, and ultimately if a writer is so entirely incapable of writing a character of a different gender or sexuality to them, there are likely greater underlying issues for them as a writer, if not as a person.

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Poor Ubisoft, they make a canoically bi protagonist with an onscreen gay romance and a triple A RPG where you can be trans and people only care about Bioware until the Spartans come.

Let’s see… still wouldn’t call this site inclusive. Pretty easy to say when you’re not one of the groups they pay attention to, just as it’s easy to do the opposite.

Totally if you can write about dragons and aliens without eyes totally could write about some other person interested in other things lol. After all we are all humans

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15 posts were split to a new topic: Gay Representation in non-Choice Script Gaming

Done.

There was also a thread about LGBTQ and Feminism Issues in general. Although it’s been inactive for a while.

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I think the problem is that it’s harder to make a choicescript game than it is to simply tell a story. When you are constructing a game that will actually work and you’re pulling your hair out it can seem a lot easier to shift focus away from romance durine the action. It’s simply easier to treat romance as a bolt on coding wise if the author is inexperienced bease that’s the easiest way to make the damn thing run.

I am grappling with these problems you describe in my own WIP.

The romantic conflicts need to mesh well with the main plot conflicts. If they don’t mesh if the two sets of conflicts are tangental then it just becomes overwhelming tempting for the author to ignore romance while they are pulling their hair out trying to get a game that works.

But it’s not an unsolvable problem. I think it’s skill, thought, hard work, experience and a lot of conversations like this. These conversations are enormously helpful to the authors.

These projects are too big for the authors to hold all the possible play styles in their heads at once. Getting involved with playtesters is uber important more so than any other kind of game design I’ve seen (and I’ve seen most).

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And in a lot of cultures bisexual ity is ubiquitous. Choicescript games should be open to them too.

I think it would be interesting to simply copy and paste the flings then rewrite them. In version 2 This character is a gay man. You can describe him differently. And you can tweak the stats. The version one straight man is the strong silent type with the heart of gold and he’s ruggedly handsome. The gay version is suaver, looks different talks different, flirts differently.

So you write two flings. One male fling and one female fling. Then you rewrite each of them as gay or straight. That way you have 4 flings but it’s less work and it’s easier coding wise.

And it might reward replaying if you could romance multiple versions of the same person.

Sorry, I just woke up, and it’s the middle of the night, but I don’t really understand what you are saying? :sweat_smile:

I should copy-paste the flings? Um, what, why?

I was just thinking aloud how I would solve the problem you posed.

So for example let’s say I am creating a fling with a male character. I write and code the entire encounter. Now I copy and paste all that code back into the same chapter give it a different *label.

Now I would just rewrite the fling where this character is a gay man. Talks and looks differently but basically the same structure plot as the straight version.

So now I have two sets of labels. When the game gets to the fling an *if statement decides which label the narrative proceeds to.

After either fling is over you *goto or *finish back into the main story