Gay Representation in ChoiceScript games?

How could it not? That’s great.
Of course it shouldn’t replace gay romance options for the MC though.

I had originally been thinking of doing this, but the original characters ended up being pretty minor, and at the same time, I found myself liking the (at this point, pretty much unwritten) relationship between the two ROs, and so I changed it around.

2 Likes

The 3Games (Hosted Game) has canonically gay and bi characters, though it’s a bit different than the standard COG because you switch between preset characters.

2 Likes

I remember Vendetta, Rise of a Gangster, actually seemed to go with most of the RO’s having set orientations as, gay, bi or straight. I certainly remember the very cute tailor boy being specifically and exclusively gay and I believe there was going to be at least one other gay male RO. It would certainly have been interesting, if potentially frustrating to some players, though “realistic”, if we would also have encountered specifically lesbian only women of the less than lawful persuasion, thus resulting in our always male mc never being able to get anywhere with them. I did remember Adamo being gay correctly, right @Vendetta ?
Of course Vendetta is a game with a set mc gender.

Well, like many people have said, with most of these games being explicitly escapist fantasy it makes some sense that most romanceable characters are mc sexual, although @Havenstone 's XoR seems to have both major, mc sexual (gender-flipping) RO’s and minor RO’s or optional encounters with a set sexuality and preference, for example Calea always seems to be straight and only interested in male helots (for some weird reason).

The most intriguing one I’ve encountered recently is @Moreau’s the Myrmidon and I like how gender and sexually utopian that world seems to be, despite being a clear dystopia in many other respects. (but of course people knew I was going to say that of the game that seems to finally allow me to pursue two very cute guys in a real poly relationship). :wink:

5 Likes

Don’t take away my bi-representation. Choice and hosted is like the only games where bi/(or pan) people aren’t automatically promescious to some degree. :cry:

I like that the MC-sexual LI’s have the effect that we don’t get any ‘this’ is how a bi person is. I like that very much. (I would of course wish that more NPC acknowlegde the bi/pan-ess but I am willing to deal with that instead of being stuck with stereotypes)

From a more practical level I also appreciate that the mc-sexual characters because that means that no plot critical RO is suddenly going to be heterosexual.

13 Likes

Sorry; I never meant to imply that, and it’s probably best to keep the majority of the ROs bi- or MC-sexual, if just to keep the players’ choices open.

I was actually thinking (not for my current WIP) of maybe writing a story where the plot-critical ROs are both gay, and the straight ones are far less significant. :stuck_out_tongue_winking_eye: (And, yes, there would be bi/pan-sexual characters, too.)

1 Like

It’s a different case with the mods that make Alistair romanceable by male characters.

Yeah! I’m all in favour of bi-representation, I, personally, prefer proper bi representation though, as opposed to just bi by default and it’s never talked about or mentioned.

Which isn’t to ignore the fact that some bi people don’t talk about it with their partners. That they will just try and pass. Also it’s a spectrum and not all bi people are the same.

Yeah. So frustrating when that happens. When the same-sex attracted characters are just minor side-characters of absolutely no importance, or very little, and could easily be removed. Whereas the heterosexual romantic options have the whole plot balanced on their shoulders, and if you don’t romance them then you end up missing out.

8 Likes

@ParrotWatcher, while I certainly applaud any attempt to not make it heterosexual, I do hope that the plot-critical character gender-flip then (or that there are two of equal importance).

Mostly, it’s because I want the plot critical romance characters to be as open to as many players as possible.

Or just make none of your RO’s plot-critical. Those in my main WiP aren’t, though it’ll be a lot of work writing all the different variations concerning who is or isn’t alive at a certain point in time :sweat_smile: Why do I always have to make things difficult…

2 Likes

I’m happy with how CoG handles it. I don’t feel like representation suffers because ROs are bisexual (or player-sexual, depending on how you want to view it). So maybe a female RO is interested in a dude in someone else’s game - that has no bearing on MY game. And in my games the girl gets the girl and that’s all that I ever wanted.

10 Likes

I’m all in favour of complete inequality, and allowing the straight romances to be the unimportant side ones for a change. :slight_smile:

I prefer characters that are part of and important to the plot as opposed to being side-characters that you just meet up with during downtime and tell about your awesome adventures.

So for Choice of Broadsides, for instance, I much preferred Villeneuve. (And I just wish they’d added in a little bit of an acknowledgement that you’d been lovers at the end.)

In Dragon Age, if I’m correct, Morrigan and Allistair are both plot important characters. Leliana and Zevran you can play without ever recruiting them and are less important. That’s so not fair!

3 Likes

There’s ‘plot-critical’ and ‘plot-critical’. The former is the type in which the plot can’t continue and having meaning without the specific RO, and the latter is where it can, because the absence of a certain RO in the plot can have as much of an impact as their presence in the plot. It’s a pain to write though.

1 Like

@FairyGodfeather, Morrigan will always be my love. How I hated her straightness. :sob:

I am all in favour of opening up a character like Villeneuve (adored her), but in my opinon they were written as open to all players. (Because they flipped their gender with you), but if the character does not genderflip and their are not pan/bi you close of not just the heterosexual, but also at least half of your players by gender.

A plot critical gay man for example close of all women, and potentially all non-binary players too.

Ups, pressed the wrong reply. Sorry Cecilia_Rosewood.

5 Likes

Is that a question or a statement? :sweat:

Contrary to Dorian, Alistair’s sexuality is never explicitly stated and doesn’t take center stage like Dorian’s does. As far as I’m aware, Dorian is the only BioWare character whose sexuality actually plays a pivotal role in their personal story arc. Considering gay players only had the option to romance Zevran, whom I believe essentially had a similar response from the gay community as Dorian did, I actually supported the possibility/potential for exploring Alistair’s sexuality. I’ll always be in favor of characters exploring their sexuality so long as it makes sense.

2 Likes

The idea would be to have two equally important characters, one male, one female, both gay, and a third, bi/pansexual character, who is either male or female (chosen by the player), and of slightly smaller importance to the plot, plus a bunch of other characters (both bi/pansexual and possibly straight), who would be involved in the plot, but by no means critically. Obviously, the plot would go the same if you’re involved in a straight romance (aside from the romance-specific parts), but romancing the two most important characters would be restricted.

Of course, I’d have to finish my current WIP first…

It was a statement.

I’m against straight-washing but I do see the need of game-mods to allow characters to be romanced by the same gender. I think it is two different things.

And I do agree that making a mod so that a character who’s family tried to force him to undergo conversion therapy, who is most definitely gay, and then having their sexuality erased, that’s such an issue. They should just play a male character.

7 Likes

You did indeed. Adamo is the first of the two gay RO’s. You may also be very vaguely recalling discussion about Rosie Mallory, a potentially very good friend of the MC who is, and will remain (despite the MC’s possible best efforts, at risk of their actual friendship), a lesbian. You’re also correct that some players really didn’t like that fact… which brings me to one of the wider issues being discussed.

It honestly wouldn’t make a scrap of difference if Vendetta were not in fact gender-locked. To me, Adamo and Rosie are who they are. A female MC would have no more luck with Adamo than our male MC has with Rosie. They may only be characters in a story but I cannot conceive of being able to ‘flip’ them to suit, not without somehow losing a significant and fundamental part of who they are as people - to the detriment of the story.

Granted, this may just be a failing on my part. I must admit, I do tend to view my story as something the MC has merely wandered into and may yet play a part in, rather than as a stage set entirely for their satisfaction. Oh well.

6 Likes

Personally, I much prefer writing characters who have a set, distinct sexuality. Its just another thing that helps me really realize them into a full person than “Companion B”. The problem I tend to have with COG games, however, is number. (Like how @Fiogan talked about).

It’s actually a mix of the number and the plot critical aspect that was talked about before. I try hard to make every romance able character plot-critical, or at least have their own side story. Why? Well, I figure no romance is so flat that it’s just “I like you” “I like you too” “Kay cool”.

You have to get to know each other. The longer you do know each other the more you learn, the more you learn the more secrets, past mistakes, etc. become clear to you. I love writing these kinds of things. So it’s less out of a since of fairness than… just for my own enjoyment.

… but the downside is that then it takes a lot longer to write one romance than it would if I put less time into the developement of that romance. Which means each person ends up having their own story within the story, which as a result means I have to pair down a lot on the number of ROs I can write without burning out.

Take my current WIP, originally there were more ROs than the current 4. Each of them had their own unique sexualities, backstories, etc.

But I realized… I just couldn’t write that much. So I took away, character after character- most not even appearing in the story anymore. Then I was left with 4. One was pansexual (Icarus), one was lesbian (Cynthia), one was gay (Copper), and one was straight (Lorraine).

Problem is, that leaves most players with only 1 romantic option, 2 at the most!

That… wouldn’t work well. Most likely, people wouldn’t be happy. As a result, I had to forgoe the sexuality function and make all of them pansexual (Or player-sexual, if that’s how you prefer to put it).

I still wish I’d been able to write a longer story with more sexual diversity… but sometimes it really is just because of things like time and effort available to put into the story when taking everything else into account.

That being said, it would be great to see more games made by those who have the skill, time, and effort to do so! (Or make it less crazy than my style of writing at least… might factor into it as well, :sweat_smile:)

9 Likes

Yeah, this is pretty much what I’m trying to do with my own WIP. I really don’t want any ROs to be just “tacked on”, with even the most minor ones having some plot significance, and none of them “there just to be an extra RO”.

It’s okay; I’ll just headcanon that Copper’s still gay. :stuck_out_tongue_winking_eye:

2 Likes

Speaking for myself, I tend to refer to ROs as playersexual because 90% of the time (in ChoiceScript games), the RO never mentions the player’s sex/gender. It’s irrelevant. In fact, most of the time, they just never mention who they’ve dated previously or if they happen to have any preferences at all. It’s just swept under the rug for the sake of the romance, and I’ve always found that to be jarring. If I’m playing a gay MC that romances a widower whose wife passed away, I would definitely hope there would be some sort of acknowledgement of the fact that my MC is a man when the widower was previously in a long-term relationship with a woman. Give me a throwaway line at the very least, y’know?

9 Likes