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Of course the post got flagged lol.
Well, I guess this is it. I’ve loved interacting with readers, since unfortunately this is the only way for me to do it, but I guess I shall take my leave.
Sorry for being uh offensive. Now I get why people don’t like this place.

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There are many discord servers or perhaps dm’s or even reddit where such conversations are more appropriate?
This forum is definitely not the only place where wayhaven could be discussed. (Although if the place will appreciate the conversation is another thing)

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Love how the solution is “well go elsewhere and see if they like you” rather than try and do something about moderation.

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I don’t know if I said anything of the sort—I simply gave a solution.
But either way, this is rather off topic, isn’t it?

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I get the distinct impression that’s the whole point of this, to make sure to silence anyone with a dissenting opinion. The only thing you’re allowed to say about Wayhaven from here on out is that Sera is god and everything she writes is perfect. Say anything else and it’s the boot. Or you get made to feel so unwelcome that you go away like they want in the first place.

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Perhaps we can return to a more general discussion on how to best perform feedback? Which was the intention of the thread and in many ways the intention of this whole site. Being specific feels like its hurting more than helping at this point.

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Ah but we’ve already solved that! The only way to provide feedback is by saying that everything is dandy. Slap that 10/10 rating and call it a day.
You don’t agree? Pack your things and go away, you’re being mean.

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But you are not providing feedback.

I’m even starting to doubt you even know how to do it properly.

What you will never allowed to do, is being toxic for free against an author.

Now if you refuse to understand such simple and common sense thing, that’s on you, and it’s clearly a you problem.

You are on the wrong, it’s time to admit it.

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Did you read the top of this thread?
The intention of me creating it was to find a good way to allow a more comfortable environment to give negative and constructive feedback—as many feel uncomfortable to do so—and usually only the most audacious comment negative things here. If negative feedback was more accepted (and dogpiling was not) perhaps a good medium could be struck.

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Wow so now I’m too dumb to know how to provide feedback. Thank you, oh kind stranger. Too bad I’m not in the wrong.

My replies got moved to this thread after we were discussing negative feedback not being welcomed elsewhere. Forgive me for wanting to make my point clear here, where I’ve been moved, instead of clogging another thread with off topic stuff.
A good way to improve general decorum would be not to dogpile people who have different opinions than your own. But apparently words such as “I wish the writing could be improved” are too harsh for feedback decorum.

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Seven months of silence and that’s the best twitter level quip you could think about?

“It’s been non-stop since april” good on people for having normal conversations and realizing they’re allowed to speak up, if they think something wasn’t great. Oh wait, no you can’t.

Not you doing the same thing LMAO got them amirite. Also I’m perfectly fine, thank you. Maybe try the bully persona on someone else, sweetheart. :frowning:

This will be my last take, since it’s like arguing with the wall, but oh yeah I’m sure someone whose betas are specifically told not to provide any sort of input outside of typos and code bugs values and uses constructive criticism to better her work. Definitely, yes. Goodnight. :sheep:

“She accepted feedback from me” okay now I can rest easy, knowing what kind of person I was trying to talk to. And yes yes, feel free to call me names for replying again. Goodbye sweetie.

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Lol “The moment people started to speak up”? It’s been nonstop since April what are you talking about?

Oh are we playing “edit our comments to keep arguing?” That’s a fun one. The point, as I’m quite sure you know, is that you were being deliberately disingenuous and misleading by saying that things were shut down “the moment people started to speak up” and not shut down after several months of negative discussions, at the authors request. I know making it sound like it was only after your conversation that brought up the hard hitting questions makes it sound more dramatic, but that’s not really routed in reality.

I’m sure she took what little was actually productive/constructive from that thread but obviously felt that it was not going anywhere useful. I’m assuming you want authors to be able to have agency over the thread for their work and could, maybe just maybe, see how they might not want it to continue if it’s just been mostly negativity for months. Or maybe you can’t see that who knows.

Weird, she’s accepted feedback from me. Maybe the world just doesn’t revolve around you specifically. And I’m glad we’re on the same page about arguing with a wall. Take care.

Lol I knew you’d respond again “sweetie”; yeah dropping that gem in really shows how unbothered you are with the whole thing. Ta-ta. Thanks for the flag btw, don’t worry though I won’t do that to you.

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This thread is getting far too heated so I’m putting it into slow mode for 48hrs. Please all take this as an opportunity to reconsider your contributions to this discussion and the wider community.

If you have an issue with a post, flag it.

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Going forward, I’ll just go ahead and mute people trying to start drama. Especially if it’s after monthly hiatuses/they never post, but suddenly decided it was time to dance along.
Thank you for assuming I’m the one flagging everything, btw. Living rent free in people’s heads.

That being said, I would like to have genuine feedback regarding the issue. If the thread is for discussion regarding how to better the general feel of things, as to make everyone feel comfortable, then please do tell me what’s a good way to start a conversation without being silenced for going against the majority.
I’ve said multiple times I encourage conversation as long as you’re not being a hater for fun and yet I’ve been accused of being one.

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Maybe throwing in a hat here where I shouldn’t, but I felt like I might be able to add something constructive here. As a preface, I don’t target this at anyone in particular, this is just the pattern I’ve noticed that goes on. I don’t think people are silenced for going against the majority. I think people are silenced once they go against the majority, then get push back from the majority, then eventually due to comments made from one or both sides it devolves into arguments that are then targeted at the individuals partaking in the discussion.

Having a safe place to present both positive and negative feedback is important. There’s almost no doubt in my mind that usually, if someone goes on a WiP page and is critical of it, especially with one as big as Wayhaven, they will get significant push back. Now, the people who push back also need to be respectful, I’ll say that. I know that’s not always the case and can be frustrating. However, if someone begins to engage in a way that isn’t relevant to the game or responds in a non-constructive way, it is then on you (or whatever person was the original poster) to either disengage from that person, flag them, or go “Hey, I was just putting my thoughts out there. You can not like them if you want, but let’s calm down a bit, yeah?”

Coming from the standpoint of an author, I can see why someone might want a thread like Wayhaven’s WiP closed (allegedly; obviously I don’t know personally but either way, it’s just an example to serve a point). And I promise I’ll tie this back into forum feedback decorum in a moment, this is just giving context. As a writer, working on a series for as long as Mishka has (if you include the development of Wayhaven 1, somewhere around 6 and a half to 7 years most likely; ~2016-2023) is hard work. I think we all can agree on that point; it is hard work.

To see a constant flow of negativity is demotivating at best. Now, that’s not to say you can’t give critiques about the work. I personally played through the game then left my review of the good and the bad, and occasionally I would partake in a discussion or two, both on and off the public forum about my thoughts on the game and series.

HOWEVER, when a forum gets to a point where people have started talking about the writer themselves, and the same points have been mentioned to the point of redundancy, that’s not really feedback anymore; it’s a feedback loop (a play on words there). I think a better way to handle previous topics coming up again would be to just link back to the older comment that was made, rather than just saying it again. Something like, “Yeah, that point was brought up earlier here insert link to comment here” Then, if anyone has anything to add to the previous comment that wasn’t already said, they can.

Any talk or assumptions about the author themselves I don’t think is proper decorum for a public forum, or at least for this public forum. One could say “Well, if the author doesn’t like what’s being said they shouldn’t look at it.” But that’s precisely what the threads on here are for; for author’s to look at and engage with. Granted Mishka is one of the rare few that doesn’t seem to engage on here all too much, but I think it’s fair to say that is the main purpose of these threads (outside of having to put them up to be published).

All in all, decorum for feedback is all about knowing what topics are off-limits (talking about an author or fellow commenters directly), knowing what conversations are worth engaging with, and not repeatedly mentioning the same points. Also knowing that, if you are critical of a product, you will most likely get more push back because there is probably going to be a majority of people that disagree with you; but that’s okay! Genuinely, it can feel a bit disheartening if a lot of people don’t see something as you do, but that doesn’t mean your viewpoint on the thing is any less valid (as long as that viewpoint isn’t actively hateful towards someone else and doesn’t hurt someone else such as bigotry etc. etc.). I think if someone wants to talk about something that bothers them in the game in depth, to the point where it borders on ranting (again, ranting is not a bad thing, but probably not best for a public forum) then doing that privately with someone else as an outlet is fine in my book.

I know not everyone in the world is going to like me or my work. I’m fine with the idea that people may be venting their frustrations over one or both of those things to someone in private, because that’s not exactly an unhealthy thing to do. Everyone need an outlet, it’s just about finding the correct place for that outlet.

I hope no one thought I was pointing a finger or specifically talking about them. Tbh, I’ve seen these things happen on more than just the Wayhaven forum, and on more than just this site. People’s feelings are valid, and I think at the end of the day, whether someone goes about it the right or wrong way, that is what everyone wants to hear. Your feelings are valid.

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I totally welcome constructive criticism. It can be a very beneficial thing.

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I didn’t realize it was trying to start drama if someone pointed out you were being deliberately misleading in your description of when the thread got shut down. Also find it interesting that you say you encourage conversation but when someone disagrees with you you say it’s like talking to a wall and try and shut them down with the nice little “sweetie” condescension but ok.

@ViIsBae Well said in your statement imo.

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As someone who is not an author nor writer, but as someone who plays WIPs: I do my best to ensure that my feedback or comments will help improve something in-game. I tend to follow the low level feedback and high level feedback rules: if I see a bug, some in-game lines don’t make sense, I report it and that’s that; but if I think a scene is wrong, or if a character acts weird, I explain what I found off and I suggest possible solutions and I also discuss this if I can. (I may provide some examples of this, if you wish).

I do my best to express everything I say respectfully, that my comments are focused on the game or the character and not the author. And I also understand that it is very possible that my suggestions would not be implemented by the author, which is fine; authors have a vision (as do all artists), and I wish to do my best to make that vision a reality.

Do you mean, like a thread specifically for feedback? I believe that can work: Lords of Infinity has three threads: one for feedback (this is were you put in feedback of all levels), one for questions (this is where you ask a question and receive an answer from either the author or someone else knowledgeable on the lore), and for general discussion (anything else is here). While there are instances when discussions occur on the thread for feedback and questions, the three threads work as intended. (There is also a thread for in-game memes and jokes).

I remember that this started because having one thread was confusing to navigate: you may find yourself reading a post with high-level feedback to another post with a question on the lore (which Forum veterans know) to even posts on memes relating to the game. Separating the threads was a brilliant idea.

Your feelings are relatable: I feel similar to this, to holding myself back, on WIP threads that I’ve never posted in. However, I also found that with time, you tend to feel better and that you tend to express more feedback (even negative ones) as you spend more time on that thread in particular; although I feel like I only post on threads that I like, and not much on other threads. But as long as your feedback is actionable, that you can explain so logically (you may use you emotions too, so long as your comments are not entirely emotions-based), and you express it respectfully, then the feedback will be useful. :blush:

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