First parts of series being advertised as such in descriptions

Hi, I was just chillin on steam and started reading reviews about CoG games, and one criticism that came out relatively regularly was that, when a game is intended to be only the first part of a serie, it’s not written on description. I never read description and just try your demos to see if I fancy the book, (and if I fancy it I absolutely do not want to know of the story stops at the end of the book or not, since I am allergic to even the slightest spoiler, I have issues don’t judge me)

But I could see why some people would like to know what they are paying for, and I understand them wanting to know if they’ll need to pay for the sequel, or you know some other quirk like not wanting to read something that you won’t know how it ends before at least the next book.

So my question is, is there a reason why it’s not advertised on description ? I know for example you don’t like talking release date, since it could put pression on authors and such. Or is it just an oversight ?
Because in case it’s the latter, a simple fix would be to just add a quick disclaimer at the end of the description (so that I can properly ignore it and not know of the story ends this book or the next, and people who want to know can be sure before buying)
Anyway that is all have a great day :slight_smile:

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The reason they are not advertised is that CoG/HG/HC does not know in advance if a sequel or additional part will be published.

It is the same reason that save systems are not implemented until an actual sequel or additional part is published.

Unfortunately, there is no way for us to know the publishing future.

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I realize that. But while you don’t know if the sequel will be released you do know that a sequel is “needed” to complete the story
I don’t feel like not knowing if the sequel will come out, in itself, prevents you from putting a quick disclaimer that could help people decide whether the book is for them or not :slight_smile:
When I say in itself, I mean maybe there is a reason behind it that is not obvious to me, like for example not putting pressure on writers to write a sequel if they don’t want to

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I’d say thats pretty much the reason. Some of the writers will know that they want to write a sequel, or have planned out a series. But for most of the others they don’t know if they want to write another book, as writing takes a lot of time, even more when you add the coding required for a CoG/HG/HC. So unless the writer states ‘there will be a sequel’ then CoG/HG/HC can’t say there will be one and advertise the book like there is a sequel.

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Okay thank you for the answer :slight_smile:

I do think this is a good idea, and would save a fair bit of frustration and poor reviews. While it’s impossible to guarantee that authors will ever produce their sequels, you could still say something less concrete like ‘this game is intended to be the first part of a series’, perhaps? Not actually promising there will be a second part, but allowing readers to make a slightly more informed purchase.

Some Hosted Games, like Dragon Racer and the recent The Soul Stone War, end on massive cliffhangers, and it seems only fair to warn people ahead of time. Otherwise there is a general assumption that each game is a self-contained story.

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If a company as Cog say will be a sequel Is a SUICIDE for business.

“Where is the sequel?” Etc… This is a scam! (then the negative impact comments)

Maybe the game doesn’t meet the money to be worth a sequel etc… It is a suicide say there will be a sequel if you don’t.

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Damn, sequels with HGs and CoGs are tricky! Sequels in ‘regular’ books can be tricky already, but we all face the additional hurdle of deciding what, and how many, end-states to include in each entry in the series. If we wrap EVERYTHING up, then yes readers will feel satisfied with a self-contained story, but if you have a dozen different end-states how do you launch a Part 2? On the other hand, if you end on a cliff-hanger and/or leave dozens of story questions unanswered, you’d better 1: deliver on a sequel as fast as you can! and 2) hope you’ve built enough goodwill with readers to get them to wait for it.

Ideally, every game should stand on its own, whether or not it is in a series, to the extent that if the series stopped cold (author hit by a bus, for example), readers might be disappointed that they didn’t see the big story arc get wrapped up, but they would still feel like they bought, and received, a self-contained story with a beginning, middle, and end.

And so do you put “Part 1 of a 3-Part series?” upfront and center when you publish Part 1?

Pros: Readers have a better idea of what they are getting

Cons: Readers may not even give it a chance because they’ll be afraid the author won’t deliver on more installments, or they might mostly be scared that Part 1 won’t be an enjoyable, self-contained read on its own. This can circle around and hurts sales and makes it less likely for the author to actually go forward with Part 2 because it may not economically be worth it, which makes the readers’ initial concerns a self-fulfilling prophecy.

My advice to writers just getting into this space would be to start with a stand-alone game and build some trust with readers that way before tackling a series.

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I am not saying this should be as definitive as “There will be a sequel”, but yeah I see your point. The thing is right now, these negative reviews already exist, as I said. And they are often joined by accusation of dishonesty (like oh boo hoo you made me purchase for 5 dollars a book that is only part of the serie not even the final product boo hoo that’s a devious trick). While I am completely not in agreement with the second criticism (I don’t think cog intention are dishonest) , the point remains that some people would have preferred being warned on advance and give negative reviews because of it. I just thought I’d put it out there on the forum because some CoG I really like are being “tanked” by similar reviews. And while I down vote every reviews calling CoH dishonest (the worst are the one complaining they were tricked because it was only a demo), I think the idea has some sense. Not claiming it is what CoG should do but you know giving my thoughts to a company I really like in the vain hope it could help :slight_smile:

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Personally, I think is more dishonest saying it will be a sequel when you have no idea about it.

I feel like you are a really good example for the topic, since CCH was intended to be part of a story I assume.
That’s a really interesting answer, I really get why an author would be anxious to announce it’s only the first book in a serie.

@poison_mara

Well yes (again, I don’t like people calling CoG or authors dishonest ), but I think this is not the main focus of the “issue” I was talking about. For example Soul Stone War is clearly intended to be the first book, and wether the sequel will come out or even be a wip is not changing the fact that the first book on its own leaves us wanting more, and does not provide a real conclusion to tthe story. And thinking about warning people about it, is worth considering

But I’m fully aware it is a difficult question now, and especially on internet where a lot of people will complain no matter what

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@Eric_Moser – You can signal through your title, your intentions. Both yourself and @GreekWinter did so in your debut works. Neither of you were guaranteed follow-up publishing though.

And that is the key – until CoG/HG/HC green-lights the next work, everything beyond that first title is vaporware.

@LeBaloo – Your issue is not really with the company, it is with the author-developers.

This is a problem of development of this title. Ideally, the author should strive for the story to stand on its own, whether it is a part of a series or not. The better authors do this.

@Eric_Moser, @GreekWinter and @Morgan_V all succeed in doing so in my opinion. You feel differently about Morgan’s work.

In any case, the policy of HG has not changed nor does it vary between authors. This issue you have should be directed towards the author-developers directly and it should be something taken up during the testing time.

That is why having a long and deep testing of any HG game is important.

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Just to clarify, while I maintain my position on the Soul Stone war, I agree this is purely subjective (and I don’t really see it as a problem, more of “I want to see what’s next because I enjoyed it”).

Anyway thank you for the in depth answer (since it’s written exchange and I don’t know you personally I’m not sure if I’m reading your tone correctly, and I hope my comment has not come across as me thinking CoG are doing a poor job or anything like that, it was just something I thought was worth considering :slight_smile: )

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It is something that all author-developers need to consider. I believe you just directed the concern to the wrong party… the author is the one required to address this in their development of their game.

Also, remember that the CoG, HG, and HC libraries are all different with different requirements to be published.

Edit:

I can see why the initial thread title was unclear, but I think the edited version also missed the mark that you were trying to hit with your post.

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I put it on the original title as : Question to CoG/authors, if I’m not mistaken (since I know authors are on the forum as well) but for some reason the title was change (I’m curious about it, btw is a moderator that can do it? I’m assuming it was because my title was not precise enough :slight_smile: )

Yes, I changed it, because “Question to CoG/authors” was too general.

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So, The game I’m making is almost finished, and it ends with a huge cliffhanger and the story not complete at all because this was how it was intended to be because I thought and designed it to be a series. It took me a lot of time to reach this point, and it would take me a lot more to write the next parts, should I release this already done book and start to write the second part or delay the whole thing until I have all the series finished as one only book and release it all together?

I guess both have its pros and cons, releasing it now I’ll hopefully have some income, reviews, comments that could motivate me to put more effort on writing the next part, though that could leave to bad reviews too because it is an unfinished story after all. On the other hand, if I keep writing until I finish the whole story I’ll be delaying the whole thing who knows how much more.

This is something I haven’t thought before, I know many normal books are written as a series but I didn’t knew they could get bad reviews for being “unfinished”.

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Well, even the first book in a series should have an ending, imo.

The ending isn’t going to wrap up all the plot points, and the “big bad” will probably still be out there, but most readers/players expect some sort of resolution in Part 1. I mean, Luke blew up the Death Star (immediate resolution to the conflict) but Darth Vader was still out there, as was the Empire. That sort of thing.

Is there a way that you could wrap up the immediate conflict in your Part 1 and then publish it? That’s just an idea, as I know nothing about your story. I don’t think anyone is saying that you have to write out the entire sprawling series in one fell swoop.

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I am talking from a reader viewpoint, so maybe you speak about it with writter that already published their work for insight. But I’d say that 1/there will always be negative review no matter how good the work is (most CoG and HG works with bad reviews caused by a cliff hanger have overall good reviews. 2/ a lot of people enjoy series, if the first book is good you can bet I’ll leave a good review and tell you I hope you continue working on it
3/at some point you will need to publish, and if you think it will be way too long before you can finish the whole story light as well release it in parts…
And 4/ well from what I understood you are free to warn that it’s only the first part, and so all bad reviews about this aspect would be somehow irrelevant.

That said I think your cliffhanger needs to give some sort of conclusion to the book in itself even if we know that there is still more to come

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Sincerely, as a reader, I will never buy another game if you let the game unfinished. That is a big f#$& you to the player. It is like say GIMME MORE MONEY.

If the author is not capable of close the plot and doesn’t give me different satisfactory endings. I will give the zero and red negative impact feedback possible.

Edit You can have series. But you HAVE TO close the immediate plot of that unity giving a Satisfactory explanation of the plot of the current game. That and give variety of endings
If not sorry You haven’t ended your game period

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