Fallen Hero: Retribution release thread! (Book Two) (Spoilers Inside!)

There’s also a brief mention in-game that “Not even newly decanted were you this…pure. Not even before tattoos. Before scars.”, since we’re talking about it.

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Ty for pulling this; I wasn’t in the mood to go digging😅

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No celebrating anything Mister! Twirl evil Moustache

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Not celebrating! Just relieved that someone was able to find this. I have a hard time remembering where I’ve actually read things about this game and an even harder time finding them😂

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Recently, I dug through the blog containing piles of fanarts and weird asks, and saved links to the interesting ones :sweat_smile:

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What clue, the tattoos??? We don’t really know much about them except the SD uses them to mark their prisoners “”““property””“”. Like @KV1_DESEMPREGADO says, we can’t really trust Sidestep’s pov because they are EXTREMELY biased. A clear example is that they believe they are ““soooooo uNlOvAbLe and UnLiKaBlE!!!1!”” and we all know that’s not true!!!

The tattoos can be removed, but the means to do so are SO EXTREME that they would do way more damage than good. Doesn’t prove at all that someone is a Re-Gene, only that the SD marked them (and even the combat units are made out of human DNA, so in a way…). But really, if the SD can make clones driven by AI, why can’t they make super resistant tattoos??? I don’t see how the tattoos are absolute proof of the MC not being a kidnapped human, like… if you have actual people and don’t want them to run away, neon, unremovable tattoos are a sure way to eventually find them. In fact, the SD doesn’t even have to worry about the public recognizing them at all because they’ll want to remain hidden, like Sidestep in their vigilante days.

It could mean ever since Sidestep remembers anything at all, after all the years of brainwashing, torture and who kows what. Like, if they made Sidestep believe they came out of a test tube, of course they are going to say things like that :thinking:

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actually, we know that is true.

yeah, but we have no proof of the opposite of being a ‘Kidnapped human’. Yeah, but logically it doesn’t make sense. Why kidnap people, when you can make them? Kidnapped humans have too many flaws, they have ties, and someone will look for them. If you make them, they become YOURS, your property and nobody asks questions because that’s how it works.

Anyway, I’m getting tired of this and I need to get some food in me.

Just blur the spoilers guys!

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I don’t know who is wrong or who is right, but I think thematically the story works better if Sidestep is a ReGene.

On another note, many people have discussed the “How?” in “How the SD could make a real person think they’re a ReGene”, but not the “Why?” We know that ReGenes are used as tools and thus it makes little sense why the SD would want to use anything other than ReGenes?

That’s just my two cents.

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I only brought that up to say that since they remember before the tattoos were added, theoretically those could be given to a normal human and aren’t part of being vat-grown. I don’t have super strong feelings on the not-a-Regene theory either way. I think it would be tricky to pull off well storywise, but I believe Malin is definitely skilled enough to make it work if they want to.

There is a significant emphasis on how memories being drained feels “familiar”. The straightforward interpretation is that that’s entirely because of what happened to Ace, but it’s possible there’s more to it:

Quotes

(the therapist) “Hollowed out. As if yanking her memories had unsettled something inside you as well. Guilt? No. You know you did what you needed to do. So why does it feel so familiar?”

(Shroud) “The way she drills into his mind like a mosquito, hollowing out his skull like an egg, draining him of everything he is. It’s a telepathic attack that’s familiar, too familiar, drowning in tar, feeling it consume you, and you want to throw up”.

(after draining Carter’s memories, though this one needs high puppet_individuality) “There’s a moment of something like déjà vu, looking at your hand, looking at the body, not sure why this feels so disturbingly familiar. Probably what you just did. Residual memories. You shake them off, can’t allow them to linger.”

But I think the only thing that really needs to be addressed is where your scattered childhood memories came from, and there are multiple explainations for that.

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I addressed this when I originally proposed this as a theory, and I think Dannie did, too, as far as why. We know the boost drugs have a massive fatality rate, and we know that even people who do survive them don’t necessarily get useful powers. So, logically speaking, the reason to kidnap existing telepaths/boosts and brainwash them into thinking they’re re-genes is because it would be less cost/time/resource intensive and have a significantly higher success rate than creating and boosting tens, hundreds, potentially thousands of artificial bodies and just hoping for success. We already know telepathy is a rare power and that telepaths are being disappeared at an alarming rate. We know that Hollow Ground and Sidestep have some kind of biological connection, and that Hollow Ground had a sibling that allegedly “died” in police custody that just so happens to be in the same age range of Sidestep and look like a younger version of them (enough that Ortega thinks this is Sidestep’s backstory and has since their vigilante days).

We also know that the Special Directive has an interest in taking in non-regene boosts, considering they’re looking for Locus and took in Psychopather.

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??? Sidestep may be an introvert, awkward, bad at connecting with people, but that’s not the same as being unlikable and unlovable? They won’t be the life of the party, but they had friends, like Ortega and Themmy. Sure, some people play their Sidesteps as super bitter and hostile, but that’s not the default?

Because the boost drug kills like 95% of its users, simple maths. If you were to make a batch of 100 Re-Genes, only 5 of them would survive, and not even that is guaranted. Idk about the inners workings of cloning/making super soldiers, but that sounds insanely expensive and inefficient. Also, if you specifically want telepaths, you could make tens of thousands of blue Re-Genes and end up with 0 (again, insanely expensive and inefficient).

The story states that only the dreamers and desperate take the drug. If a criminal, or someone poor takes it and succeeds, it would be super easy for the SD to make them disappear (and their family/friends if they make too many questions). Look at how easily they kidapped Sidestep after the Heartbreak incident, and doctored autopsy pics to make Steel stop looking for them.

Also I’m not stating that my theory is true, I’m just having fun. There are hints for both theories and more (for human Sidestep things like how there’s something REALLY fishy about cuckoos, how the SD is SUPER interested in a telepath villain MC, Locus’ disappearance…).

@Leafcathead my guess is that actual Re-Genes suck at infiltration missions: they are super efficient for wars, but if you need intel, well… also, telepaths seems to be capable of something out of this world (like opening the gates to another dimension? Idk, it’s unclear if it’s some eldrich horror or reality shifting powers), so the interest is there. Also, I get the feeling that only humans can be telepaths, as in, an actual conscience is needed, not the AI mind Re-Genes have. But humans have rights, and that’s inconvenient for the SD because then they can’t experiment like they did with Heartbreak, so they make everyone believe they are things. Also, it seems that extreme trauma is needed to open gates, so… yeah, no rights for telepaths.

@Pseudo_Nym ah, I see! Ty for the quotes. And yeah, there’s still so much to learn about, so many mysteries, but theorizing is so fun.

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Forgive me, I was reading a bit quickly earlier.

I actually disagree fundamentally that it’s easier to kidnap telepaths than using artificial mind. In the same sense that factory farming of animals is more efficient than hunting them in the wild. They can grow hundreds of bodies and inject all of them in hopes of getting a boost.

I subscribe to the theory that the only relationship between Sidestep and Hollowed Ground is that one of the younger siblings of Hollowed Ground was used as part of the DNA of Sidestep. Also, and forgive me if this is covered somewhere, but are we certain that Locus and Psychopathers aren’t ReGenes? Or, even if they aren’t, it might increase the likely hood of getting telepathic boost if you use DNA from a telepath when making the ReGene, which is why Lotus is sought after.

What do you think of that?

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I saw those posts when I was searching, actually! Seeing other people reach the same conclusions definitely gives me a little more confidence that I am not barking up the wrong tree.

That’s why I suggested energy manipulation as a commonality. Herald seems to have some power over gravitational energy, and his brother controlled thermal energy. A loose connection, but still.

That particular dream:

of saying no occurs at the end, either if you crash as Sidestep and no one rescues you from the Rangers, or if you crash as the puppet and wake in Sidestep, and ignore the call that comes after from the Rangers or don’t receive one at all.
There is also this passage in the same dream:

Skin so thin. Not supposed to be.

It seems to take place when Sidestep was still being… ‘born’. Thin skin speaks of newly formed skin — but what about knowing that skin should not be so thin? That speaks of other experiences in which it were not so. It also ends with:

And you really shouldn’t smile.

which suggests that Sidestep had some emerging reactions or emotions even very early in the process. And speaking of smiles, I did not mention this in my previous post because this is one of those things I am unequipped to understand right now, but there is something strange going on there. I did quote the dream where Sidestep learns to imitate a shark smile, which I don’t necessarily take to be literal, but do think is important. Later on in this dream/memory of saying no, Regina Siepen is talking to someone else after finding Sidestep after Heartbreak:

(…) stop smiling."
“I—I can’t. I—”

And that memory ends with:

You smile.

Ominous.

Not going to lie, that was a theory did cross my mind. But Ockham’s Razor and all that. The whole conflict is spurred on by being denied human status — so to say, at the end, that that was wrong, but these ones actually aren’t human seems a farfetched decision to me.

Unfortunately:

That quote about batch survivors only applies to the initial boosting process, it seems. There are other quotes about Sidestep’s ‘batch’:

What about the rest of your batch? None still alive, but did they count?

But then again, we have pretty much established that Sidestep is an extremely unreliable narrator for a variety of reasons.

And we also have some evidence from the vision that Heartbreak gives in Rebirth that the two might have connections that precede the actual event.

The room convulses around you. No. Not this room. Another one. A familiar one.
(but is that your familiarity, or [Heartbreak’s]?)
(…)

[Heartbreak has the same pronouns as the puppet].

“Is the inquiry finished? I mean, are we doing this again?”
“It was ruled an accident. Nobody thought [Sidestep’s assigned sex]'d start to move.”

But just as above, it’s questionable what the gender variables actual mean. If theories that Heartbreak is the one that wakes up in the other body at the end are correct, that could explain why the gender is the same for Heartbreak and puppet.

On the topic of the tattoos, something occurs to me.

Ortega has what I thought was a odd and out of place question:

After showing Ortega the Re-Gene tattoos and discussing Sidesteps supposed origin:

“Have you ever tried to read it?” The question is unexpected enough to break through your facade.
“It’s encrypted,” (…). Ortega keeps watching you, and you’re not sure you like the look on [Ortega’s] face. As if you’re a problem that needs solving.

If the tattoos do, as Sidestep says, contain

“All of me. The powers, the codes, the stats.”

Then they would likely have information on where Sidestep came from, no? Decrypting and reading the tattoo might very well be the thing that proves that Sidestep is not an artificial human but rather Hollow Ground’s sibling.

On the question of “why?” Why the lies about Re-Genes? Why the tattoos at all?

Steel and Sidestep have a conversation about dehumanization of the enemy:

“[T]hey raise us to be tools. They need people to treat us like things.” (…) “We needed to look like things. Act like things. So they could treat us like we were. It might be a surprise to you, but some people see something humanoid, and they don’t want to hurt it.”

It is a compelling reason even standing on its own: Re-Genes need to be seen as something less than human in order for them to be treated as such. Some scientists like Siepen might be sociopaths without moral concerns — but in an entire industry full of every kind of employee — Farm guards, janitors, the interns that fetch the coffee — you need a reason to justify literal slavery. The Rangers themselves worked with the Special Directive — and if they had seen Re-Genes as human it would no doubt have been a far more difficult situation for their consciences. Even the more aloof Rangers are horrified at the slightest hints of what Sidestep was subjected to.
There is maybe a point there about how so many only empathize when they can put a personal name and face to institutionalized pain.

It is a great way to prevent anyone digging into Farm affairs, too; even if you uncover how they treat Re-Genes, you can look the other way without difficulty — after all, they aren’t human. It’s not as if history is not rife with examples of otherwise strong moral systems straight-up ignoring atrocities by denying humanity to victims.

Steel himself accuses himself of exactly this kind of willful ignorance if you tell him about certain experiences:

You can feel Chen’s thoughts churn under the surface; it doesn’t require effort. He’s projecting. Upset. On your account. Not surprised. Bitter about his lack of surprise. So many things that he knows exist, yet he can’t do anything about. Doesn’t do anything about. Anger. At himself for not considering the possibility.

I did consider this, but I think it’s unlikely. It doesn’t fit well with main thread of the struggle to be human, and surely if Sidestep were any kind of inorganic intelligence then Argent would be aware of it. And prior to any revelations regarding Sidestep’s identity, Argent thinks little of Sidestep one way or the other. If she met someone walking around with circuitry in place of a brain, wouldn’t she at the very least find this interesting? Not to mention that we have no evidence I’ve seen that Sidestep isn’t flesh and bone, and considerable evidence in fact that it is so. But I won’t completely deny that the possibility that Sidestep has some kind of organic but constructed mind with an unexpected consciousness.

It’s interesting you put it this way because I used much the same logic in reverse. Why bother to make people when you can kidnap them? I know which one would be easier for me and my government. I’ll also point out that if Sidestep is this younger sibling of Hollow Ground — who was not a kingpin by any means at this time — and who was one of many, all of whom ‘died’, and this one in juvenile detention of all places… well, this person probably would not be missed. Or at the very least they would be easy to ‘disappear’. It happens in our world often enough to those that enter the system.

you guys all post way too fast for me :sob:

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Okay, had food. Which mean, getting my 2nd wind back. Let’s Rumble!

Also, at least we are keeping this thread alive! lol we only have…what? another 5 years to go? :joy:

Hm, oh I’m not talking about how one plays the MC. Since that is a personal choice for each individual. I mean by the game Lores. You never had a home, parents, siblings, or family. By law, you have no rights. If you were to show your tattoo, you are nuked and picked up, and then put in a cell.

Did the rangers love the MC? Sure. But when you are broken, it doesn’t mean you feel it. When you are broken, you have more traumas than good memories. And the more the traumas pile up, the more it drown the memories you have. You can even lose them, bury them so deep may as well they didn’t exist.

Because the boost drug kills like 95% of its users, simple maths. If you were to make a batch of 100 Re-Genes, only 5 of them would survive, and not even that is guaranted. Idk about the inners workings of cloning/making super soldiers, but that sounds insanely expensive and inefficient. Also, if you specifically want telepaths, you could make tens of thousands of blue Re-Genes and end up with 0 (again, insanely expensive and inefficient).

The story states that only the dreamers and desperate take the drug. If a criminal or someone poor takes it and succeeds, it would be super easy for the SD to make them disappear (and their family/friends if they make too many questions). Look at how easily they kidnapped Sidestep after the Heartbreak incident, and doctored autopsy pics to make Steel stop looking for them.

Simple math he says…

Hello, I’m a legend who is allergic to numbers. Nice to meet you! lol

Ah but that’s where you are wrong.

If they wanted to perfect a weapon, no cost is too much. And the farm seems more inclined to do that.

Creating a batch of Regen in the lab gives you more control over their genes sequences, especially if you plan on selling them to the Military to use, or oversea to other powerful countries. You don’t wanna send them a batch of Brainwashed people implemented with a Chips in their necks, and Hope they never snap during combat stress and start remembering.

Locus and Psychopathers aren’t ReGenes?

Locus joined the Avenger, and Psychopathor is an Ork…so he is somewhere in World of Warcraft? Anyone? :grin:

Also, I just remembered something but during a scene with Ortega (Great reveal after I crashed), I picked a reply that said the MC has an artificial brain. And Ortega said something along the line of ‘‘That’s why you refuse to go to the hospital, and that means…’’ ‘’ Yeah, I stitch myself every time.‘’.

And Before THAT…while you all claim that the MC is an unreliable narrator? FINE. But what about Ortega? Them too are going senile? because during the Directives Talk they say ‘I saw the same thing in you…’ that whole ‘Like Machine, you pushed a button to make them come alive’ ‘The Passive Position’.

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You seem to be implying that Heartbreak was also a Re-Gene, but I don’t think that’s the case.

There is a quote from one where Sidestep is getting medical 'assistance' and being 'saved' after Heartbreak:

“Are you sure? (…) A Re-Gene?”

(Dr. Siepen makes a gender-related comment on how strong this [Sidestep’s assigned sex] is)

“Beggars can’t be choosers. It’s not like he’s in a position to complain.”
(…) “Should I start prepping the body for insertion then?”

Given the timing, and the fact that Sidestep was still alive despite Heartbreak, my suspicion is that Dr. Siepen wanted to Sidestep undergo whatever procedure Heartbreak had undergone — which implies that Heartbreak was not a Re-Gene at all. It would also explain why they picked up Sidestep so easily — they were already there for Heartbreak.
And it would be proof of what they are willing to subject people to.

But this depends entirely on the animal. Many don’t survive well in captivity, or don’t reproduce. Factory farming works because over thousands of years and god-knows how many generations we’ve created specific classes of creatures for whom it can work. There are animals that are is more efficient to capture than to farm. On that topic, keep in mind that we do have the technology to create lab-grown meat — and right now we choose to use farms anyway, because it is more economically viable.

But they aren’t perfecting a weapon, they’re mass-producing them. Cost might not even be the limiting resource — time, space, speed, etc.

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Why does it have to be one or the other? They can do both! They can both perfect the regene and mass produce them.

For the HB, we know the gender is based on the Puppet and not the MC. (Someone correct me if I’m remembering wrong here), the HB share the eyes color with the MC.

my suspicion is that Dr. Siepen wanted to Sidestep undergo whatever procedure Heartbreak had undergone — which implies that Heartbreak was not a Re-Gene at all.

I don’t know if the HB was a regene. But now I’m gonna think they are! Lol

Also, we know from another flashback, that the HB was only their latest test subject. They LOST the previous ones. Still think they aren’t trying to perfect something? Oh I don’t know…controlling the Gates? Opening them? The power the HB had…imagine if they could have a massive army each with that capacity. Anyone? HELLO?

Here are a few Flashback from my evil run for you to peruse :slight_smile:

Summary

People talking at you. Not with you. Rules. For the test. Pick the right ball. Or cube. Or pyramid. Red. Then blue. Nobody speaks. Just the silence and your hands. Following your notion. The urge. Now do the green cube.

How do you know green? How do you know grass? Like a pinprick, a memory that fades because it can’t find purchase.

The white pyramid.

Your hands are sore, the pyramid is pointy and you can’t get a grip. Fingers slipping. Skin so thin. Not supposed to be. Be. Bee? Danger. You shake your head but there is no noise directed at you.

The orange ball.

Your favorite. It is soft in your hand. Round. You know roundness but don’t understand what a sun is. You don’t get to keep it, it goes back in the box. Like you.

New marks.

Polite. Behaved. Thoughts settling into memories. Part of the process. They tell you what you are. Assimilation. Your thoughts are not your own. Your memories are borrowed. You are nobody. A tool. The skills should remain but the emotions clinging to them should be shed.

You know drugs. You know they are using them on you until there are no more waves. Calm. You don’t smile. Not anymore.

Safer.

More tests. Physical. Training. But you’re separate. Kept apart. The real tests happen at tables. There you excel.

You got to keep the orange ball. For coordination. Something to do in your cell. Toss. Bounce. React.

Alone.

People. White coats. Words and smiles and needles. Tools. Blue and blank with hard fists. And you.

Not wearing a coat. Not blue.

Not. Not. And yet. You are. You are you. You are bouncing the orange ball against the wall.

Imagining someone’s head. Hitting it.

Fighting. Training. But you’re not as good at it. Too much time spent on tests. At tables.

Blue hands on your not-blue skin. Nobody is smiling and yet you know everybody is laughing. At you. Your smile comes unbidden, teeth bared.

A ball can be a weapon.

Dream, This Is A Dream

One thing or well…

One of the flashbacks is related to Ortega. And the flashback seem to get mixed. As in, you can read them as ‘Oh this is a dream, Oh but this one is when you were caught after HB, or this is a memory’. So pay attention because they get mixed…Like with Dr.Sapien when asked a Regen? That was YOU. DING DING DING! :joy:

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I’m on the same page.
There’s definitely some compelling evidence in favor of Human!Step and, even if that specific theory were to be proven wrong, it’s still pretty clear at this point that Sidestep’s missing some critical information about their identity. That said, I think that recognizing humanity and worth in someone who isn’t, makes for a much more powerful narrative than just going whoops guess Step was human all along :woman_shrugging:t2:
Being an outsider to society is a major part of the story and I like the idea of the MC being truly an AI (as much of an outsider as you can get) and, in spite of it, still deserving to be accepted and treated as a human and, as such, being afforded the same rights. A story about the need to revise and expand our collective definition of humanity in order to include anyone who is capable of thinking and feeling, no matter how they came to life, feels more profound than that of a case of mistaken identity, which doesn’t come across nearly as thought-provoking and challenging.
Regardless, I have faith that the writer will be able to bring forth a coherent and compelling narrative.

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I never said ‘Oh no, I wanna be an outsider forever’. Far from it. Its just the origin? I don’t wanna wake up to find book 10 (Lol) saying ‘Oh, well now you know. HG is your big sibling. Shroud is your Twin twice removed. Oh and here, your parents were evil scientist. And you had more sibling but ya know…experiments went wrong and shit’.

That’s why I fell in love with this story so much because it’s unique. It’s refreshingly unique. I’m so tired of the misleading 'Oh you are unique…just…nah you really weren’t. But we had to write that so we could get you to read it till the end…right? freaking Naruto!

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I disagree that it makes for a stronger narrative, but I can certainly understand why you might feel that way. Maybe in the end we just latch onto what is most meaningful for us. Either way, I’m sure whatever path the story takes will be the best it could be.

Who knows? Maybe the question will be left an open thread, even by the end, and the whole point will have been that we need to come to terms with having imperfect knowledge, even of ourselves; that regardless of what we are or where we come from, that we define our selves and that we — and no other! — can determine our identities, with the rest being illusion.
Now wouldn’t that be a downer ending. But I’m not sure Sidestep is capable of anything else.

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While I agree that Sidestep is most likely a re-gene, I feel that the AI chip is a red herring and that re-genes are actually fully human (although vat-grown), and the AI chip is only used to plant in training, false memories, and such so that they can function when getting out of their tanks and become useless after that.

Or maybe they need the AI chips to jumpstart brain activity? I wonder what would happen if you remove it?

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