The above is a good discussion of the word “gypsy” from etymological and historical perspectives. Like most words with sufficiently complex backgrounds, there’s lots of ways of considering it.
The article’s conclusion: "Nowhere does the OED , an etymological dictionary based on historical evidence, label ‘Gypsy’ as offensive or contemptuous. But many standard dictionaries do have reservations about the term.
American Heritage labels ‘Gypsy’ as ‘often offensive’ in only one sense, when it means “Romani.” Merriam-Webster labels it ‘sometimes offensive.’ And Webster’s New World says it’s ‘now often considered offensive, the word Rom (pl., Roma ) or Romani being preferred.’”
As for the online standard British dictionaries, Oxford and Cambridge have no reservations. Macmillan labels the term “offensive” when it means “a Romany.” Longman says “most” Gypsies and Collins says “some” prefer to be called Romanies."
My neighbor is gypsy and they called themselves gypsies (gitanos in Spanish) they don’t want to be called Romanies. As they consider themselves Spanish as they are as Spaniard as any other culture here and part of our heritage. But as I said they say is different in the rest of Europe and America. With several etnic groups as Irish, Russian’s greek, etc… So, I suppose it depends on the country and from what heritage they came from. So I would just ask them.
It should be noted that some of my favorite Disney characters include Mulan, Kidagakash Nedakh (Atlantis the Lost Empire), Jane (Tarzan), Duchess & Madame Adelaide Bonfamille (The Aristocats), Neera (Dinosaur), Lilo (Lilo & Stitch), Captain Amelia (Treasure Planet), Elizabeth Swan (PotC), and Lucy & Susan (The Chronicles of Narnia) to name a few.
There are other possible ‘princess’ characters that weren’t affiliated with Disney such as Chel from The Road to El Dorado and Fiona from Shrek.
What attracted me to these particular characters was the fact that they were individuals and not the proverbial damsel waiting in the tower (with the exception of Fiona from Shrek, but that’s quickly subverted). In other words, they had their own lives, goals, quirks, and flaws.
This was before the media became obsessed with portraying and marketing a “strong independent woman” (w/o realizing what makes a good character) and I loved that they had dimensions to their characters (as all characters should), but were strong in their own ways w/o losing their identities to poorly serve in the agenda of saying “Women can do it too!”.
All I gotta say to this strong female character crap is that if you really want to go that route, don’t put it in media with that purpose being the only one on your mind. If that’s your only purpose, put it in a poster or something, but for the love of pete write a good character first before trying to make them “be a symbol” when they’re not supposed to be. Writing a character to be a symbol before being a character will almost always fail and people will always recognize that your “character” to be nothing but a poor attempt of a symbol trying to be a character.
Mulan didn’t start out as someone who was physically strong, but someone who was very clever and she used that to her advantage after the training camp throughout the rest of the movie. Jane wasn’t strong in the least to navigate the jungle, but I loved her passion before and after Clayton showed his true motivations to the rest of the characters. Lilo’s strength showed in her persistence during the ‘becoming human’ montage that Stitch undergoes, which how many children do you actually see commit to their ‘pets’, especially when they’re being bad?
This I’m not so sure about. Among the older Disney movies that I mentioned before, I’ve never felt unsatisfied when the credits roll and sometimes I felt that the sequels were just unnecessary (Mulan 2, Tarzan 2, etc.) to the characters’ arc.
No, never.
In fact, like I said before, Shrek was the only media/movie that I can recall that played that trope and then turned it on it’s ear within the same movie.
The Faerie Queene, Book I, has essentially this as its central plot. There is a difference in that princess is not locked in a castle–her parents are–and she asks for a knight to save them. She has her own side adventures during the journey to her kingdom, apart from the knight, but that’s the most played-straight example of the trope I can think of.
The knight is an allegory of Holiness; the princess is an allegory of True Christianity, and the dragon is an allegory of Evil. Una, the princess, is a great character, but she is often rather passive. She travels with a little lamb and stands back during the slaying.
Ah Yes Nuns called the symbol of a princess with a lamb the Christian woman that defend her virginity (the lamb. As a symbol of no sin) against dragon etc ( Sex hedonism sexuality) Until she offers herself to the holy knight that makes her lost the lamb and gain a baby instead. Lterally they eat the lamb in the honeymoon
Join the dark side, it’s where the sexiest boys are anyway. Plus we have dragons.
Indeed, why kidnap only princesses? Their cute brothers should be able to join to fun too. Which is why my dragon prefers kidnapping and ransoming cute young princes.
Totally I would love a story when princess just give the lamb to the knight and then go flying with the dragon or make some pact with it dividing the land. choice of Dragon make the subversion scene about ransom Princess and Prince very funny. My dragon decide ransom in random parameters lol that after discussing poetry and game of thrones let them go lol
Also what about a Princess that ransom a dragon to conquer the world…
Why can’t I date the dragon? Why can’t we beat the shit out of the world with my world-ending sexy dragon like, idk, a reverse Hraesvelgr from FFXIV or Legna or Angelus from Drakengard? Why do I have to kidnap the dragon?
If there was a game that let you play as a heroic Dragon Knight who teamed up with a Princess to battle both corrupt evil Knights and evil Dragons I would be all over that.
It is a possibility but I think we need more films when the protagonist is selfish and change through the film Maybe asking apologies to Dragon after seeing it is a clever creature like people and not an animal?
I think it would be cool to see a game playing the tropes straight while some other twists to the genre. Like a Princess who is magically bound to a Castle by magic, so she has to mastermind her escape by making sure everything goes according to tradition.
Historically dragons didn’t ransom princesses, they held them until such time as they were either rescued or the dragon got a bit too hungry…
It comes down to dragons liking pretty and valuable things (aka gold and jewels) and your stereotypical faerie tale princess is always the most “beautiful woman in the land” and a “treasure of the kingdom”. (Don’t kill me, I’m not a fan of the beauty being a woman’s defining trait trope either but if you read between the lines of a lot of these things, you never have princesses who are plain to look at.) Also that princesses are usually supposed to represent “purity” while dragons are “evil” so you’ve got that good triumphing over evil trope in there too. (Again talking traditional works here, not modern adaptions.) I’m pretty sure that was at least part of the rationale behind why they went for princesses instead of other royalty.
There is also situations where some evil being is responsible for locking up the Princess and the dragon is just the bodyguard of sorts, which means they don’t have to be evil themselves.
In addition to that at least in old tales elders here in Galicia from the oral tradition of our culture. Dragons needed virgin women to create some magical powers creatures that can turn into reptiles not really flying lizards but similar. In fact, sadly enough snakes and small lizards were almost extinction here as have a superstition that are evil spirits spawning of dragons with humans and all creation.
My own grand grandmother was I was a kid and she was 94 years old turn feral just because seen a small snake (no poisoning or anything) and run kill him scared that the snake would try to steal my own life spirit.
Thankfully, nowadays nobody believes that but there is a big prejudice against the reptilian creatures still.
@Laguz You should come here as people believed werewolves and people with animalistic traits were real. Lol We had The only Legal recognized official werewolf in history for something
I think I’d have to agree that my favorite thing about Disney’s princess films is that the central drive is finding one’s identity. I don’t know how successful some of them are at the execution of this as the central plot, but it always at least motivates some emotional investment from me and having a search for individuality as a major plot point is great for kids, especially young girls.
I completely agree on themes of responsibility. @Hex I am actually okay with the idea of Disneyesque princesses not being interested in governing–then we could get a plot about subverting societal and familial expectations/obligations and the strength, courage, and sometimes consideration it takes to accept you shouldn’t be the one to take something on. If not wanting to rule means someone else would be more fit to do it, I wanna see a princess say so! Enough of monarchies. A Disney Princess ending a film by abdicating the throne? Has that one happened yet? Anyway, it’d be interesting and far more responsible in some circumstances.
Lol and now I want to see a Disney princess try to usher in an age of democracy or some other rebel shit. And I can’t lie, I desperately want a gay princess. Or someone less along the lines of traditional feminine expression, but outside of just the traditional “tomboy” tropes (likes fighting, hates table manners, what a rambunctious girl! over it). Or even just a princess film without a romance plot for the main character? I just can’t help but see it as reinforcing some unnecessary priorities in girls’ minds–there’s plenty of other kid entertainment that does not at all have a romantic plot. Though I tend to hate cinematic romance in general anyway so bias.
I just want to see thoughtful subversions and aversions from here on out. The formula, imo anyway, is real tired and becoming repetitive. Now with Disney doing so many live adaptations of its animated bestsellers, I just… kinda want the concept of the Disney Princess to either evolve meaningfully or die off? idk. Either that or Star Butterfly better become their new flagship princess, IJS! (I know that won’t happen, pls allow me to dream )
Others have already provided the examples I thought of and more, so definitely. I’m sort of realizing now that this helplessness and passive role that female characters frequently had in so much older fantasy and rpg is probably the main reason I soured on fantasy in general so young and why it took me so long to get into RPGs as opposed to other video game genres. Choicescript titles were my first willing foray into fantasy settings since Harry Potter because gender choice (along with good writing) largely allows you to subvert and avert princess tropes yourself! I’ll always adore my first playthroughs of the Lost Heir series for that.
Plus we have dragons.
bias.
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