I knew I wanted there to be some sort of parallel to the atheistic and antitheistic religions of revolutionary Europe (written about at length by Michael Burleigh in the history Earthly Powers). But it needed to fit the gameworld (so there needed to be a Greek word if not concept at its core), and I wanted it to be at heart a religion of actual skepticism – of doubting, rather than knowing the truth.
And then I wrote Ch 3 dialogue about it until I liked the results.
It was more of a perfect storm than a roleplayed character decision. It reached a point where I had dodged the Phalangites, got pretty small casualties across the board and had a pretty powerful Breden in the band. I think that, if their influence is too high, the band refuses to put them on trial for poisoning the food. Then I decided it’d be fun to take them into the Xaos-Lands and play a MC who is beginning to be very skeptical of their intentions.
It’d be funny to see the MC return to the crew and say “Oh, Breden, right. He just slipped on a dry piece of stone and fell on top of a bunch of tragically placed spikes of rock. Several times, actually”.
Havie, could it be possible that in next games Mara could be tracked as atheist in secret even if is Public The Prophet that brings a new reform to Angels writings?
It is read how devout Mara is in her mind is quirky as she is not. Her new Mega church is her way to imagine a way to make religion change and keep a positive function commerce education and art and cohesion people.
Other people: Taoism! Cartesian skepticism! Counterterrorism! Insurgency! (vomits the exact details of a small bar scuffle in the summer of 1521 in what is now north-east Transdniestria over a cold bowl of veal and shallot borscht)
100% that. In particular, the threads for the infinity series always leave me confused. One moment they’ll be talking about resource allocation within different economic models, then shortly move on to what constitutes a legal combatant, all the while I’m googling every other word to try and understand the basics of what they’re saying.
Pretty rare. You’ll have the chance to foment one against the Merchant’s Pale later this game if you like, but in general the Hegemony tries to keep that kind of violence aimed at Halassur, and thus at the border.
Violence by one Hegemonic nationality against another is harshly discouraged. The Thaumatarchy is cosmopolitan, like most empires. It can’t allow the Shayardenes to bash the Nyrs in their midst or get too much of a superiority complex; what if they turned those habits of mind against Karagonds?
I’m also not sure how far even nationalists will get fostering that kind of destructive mentality.
In any case my mc’s line of thought runs along the lines of caste and class warfare if anything and ideally all of the oppressed masses should stand shoulder to shoulder.
After all the original helots were the Karagonds own fellow citizens oppressed by their own upper castes, aided and abetted by a corrupt, fake and unlawful “religion” that is the chief tool for maintaining the abominable caste system.
Why the merchants? The merchants are useful and should be brought on board as much as possible. If going there at all my mc would rather foment one against the clergy and/or the theurges.
Ahhh. havie what are you saying has a flaw. They’re not Cosmopolitan. They are COLONIALIST and imperialist. They could try selling to colonies inferior population that they’re same. But they’re same time following the WE ARE KARAGON WE ARE HEART OF EMPIRE … others are our servants. And further in hierarchy further is the national and genetic superior. We Mages We hegemony. We take what is ours by divine conquest…
I am Spanish lol we conquered half world saying similar bullshit and slavery half of indigenous population. So no way in hell that’s cosmopolitan.
Also sorry if any of readers are from one territories that the ancestry of my king decided to wipe out. I mean i come from a equal slaved minority but anyway It was terrible.
Yep, very roughly the caste system seems to work like this: the “prophets”, being the thaumatarch and the nine are at the very top. Then come the Karagond theurges, followed by the karagond nobility, then provincial theurges and at the lower end of the “top” castes would be the provincial nobility. Then the pattern presumably repeats for the merchants, the yeomen and the free urban populations. With the blood cattle, much like the lowest castes in India technically not having a place in the system at all and existing outside of it, but in practice forming the sub-human bottom of the pyramid.
Of course most colonialist powers tried to sell it as a " mission civilisatrice" to save and uplift their backwards colonial subjects out of cosmopolitan piety.
The Hegemony specific variant being the “Karagondization” of the provinces and the spreading of their nightmare religion and its attendant, dehumanizing caste system.
That said my mc would potentially play a different and more cold-war esque colonial game with Halassur when it comes to spreading the revolution while avoiding direct confrontation as much as possible under a MAD umbrella.
There are also very real differences between the pig sellers, even if they do all try to oversell. On the other hand if there weren’t or aren’t any meaningful differences at all you might as well vote Vox and I should probably go join the conservatives.
That being said this wouldn’t be a rock anthem if there wasn’t some truth to it too.
Of course but for my ill health wreaking a last bit of havoc at exactly the wrong time I’d likely have been one if said “pig sellers”, so make of that what you will.
Exactly. Blah bla…Racist and caste nationalism. Because they are superior for being from karagon heartland. Provinces are that Provinces you go ransack to full your pockets.
They could sell whatever propaganda but they are as cosmopolitan as I am a nun.
Edit: @idonotlikeusernames I was taught by my grandma that for me was most wise person in world even if illiterate the following. “Tamara, forget the song the they are trying to sell you and look at the pig is in front of you in the market. the politicians are like sly pig sellers and trying making poo smell like roses”
And I after study laws and move in union and minor political I am as hell convinced my grandma was right. I am totally incapacitated for politics as I am totally incapable of lying and politics are the art of lying.
They’re cosmopolitan like Alexander the Great, whose Hellenistic empire was the original “cosmopolis” while also of course being super imperialist. Or like the Turko-Persian empires of Central Asia.
None of those were egalitarian. But nor did they (or could they) foster a strong sense of “homeland” identity as a means of holding things together.
The Hegemony’s ruling class (the Theurges) as well as its administrative class (priests and officials) come from all Archonties. Yes, Karagon is over-represented and versions of its language and culture are valorized as the basis for cosmopolitan identity. But that’s empire for you.
Edit: see here for my earlier account of what cosmopolitan means in this context – Napoleon rather than coffeehouses.
Merchants would probably be some of the more visible and hateable collaborators for the civic underclass, right? They’ve got money and comfort, and all they have to do is work with Hegemonic officials to screw the rest of us over.
OK, giving up on spoiler protection, because this thread is full of plot details for Game 2 anyway:
The Merchants’ Pale is not where Syntechnia merchants hang about. It’s where the Abhuman and trans-Halassurq delegations live. Those are your vulnerable minorities, in the context of Grand Shayard. While Game 2 Chs 3-4 will have plenty of opportunities to foment mob violence, that’s the only one I think would be worthy of the label of pogrom.
Could I protect Them like declaring them Protected by the Angels? Due Mara totally lack of violence they are screwed I suppose. But I least can I try and use them as martyrs propaganda. But they could be really useful as a merchant church faction for commerce and artisans and relation between countries.
Brilliant.
