But alas one where I want to keep up the veil of ambiguity over whether what makes “my” aether “mine” is an alchemical fixation that will one day be understood well enough to overcome it or something more fundamental linked to souls and wills. Theurges can presently be found to argue the case for either side.
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Are there any prominent old shayardine aristo family other than the de Syrnon, I wonder? Like if you aren’t a radical helot, are there any old shayardine aristo that have enough relevance that if they support the MC’s band, that would be a big boost for nationalist MC?
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Damn so the abhuman learning lads are gonna have a bit of a harder time lol, granted it’s only during casting but still.
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I picture a propaganda piece, depicting an indistinct, hooded polyomphalos, linked by a web of umbilical cords to a blood-soaked Karagond Theurge, like a dancing marionette. HERE LIES XTHONOS, reads the caption. WE MUST BE CUT FREE.
Not looking forward to the potential Operation Paperclip to follow the fall of the Thaumatarchy…
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Goofy question, but how much Charisma would the MC need to deliver a speech of Sorkian proportions?
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At minimum if the MC intuits or is taught this fact I think it provides some rather significant ammunition for the self-sacrifices/voice of the angles path. The Hegemony is literally stealing your divinely ordained property. Your inheritance from the Angles. Aether is meant to be used by its assigned changer: YOU. If aether is freely given to the church that is the only way it can used by another. Theft of aether is the highest crime. The Hegemony are stealing from the Angles and are defying their will!
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I kinda wonder if when your rebellion grows larger, some of your subordinates will withhold what they’re doing because they know you wouldn’t approve it?
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Thats the inherent bug/feature of a Protestant Reformation. A third of your followers are going to think you are too radical and another third will think you haven’t gone far enough. I’ll probably get eleventy billion denominations after my MC tacks his manifesto to the Sanctuary door.
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Please don’t make Game 5 relatively easy. I want a game where the conquest of even 4 provinces is genuinely challenging and have serious trade-offs. I want to have a realistic chance of failing to do achieve my goals (not conquering Aveche as Revanchistic Shayard, for example). I want to have serious internal threats like Laconniers rebeling after I institute a constitution that creates a serf class out of former helots in my united Shayardene rebelion
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Hah! To my mc they just want another at best slightly different variant of the aristocracy dominated, theocratic state that already exists just with the current collaborators in the Shayardene aristocracy on top and the Karagondsm, or at least their elites, relegated to the collaborator status.
There is no good reason to think any aristo alive would give up on the caste system and massive slave driven plantation economy of Shayard as, no matter what may have been the case in old Shayard, the current system benefits them massively particularly if they could displace the Karagonds at the top and keep even more of the wealth for themselves.
Why would they rebel over that? Serf or slave, the difference is mostly theoretical anyways. What the Lacconiers will rebel over is doing away with the aristocracy and not having a Laconnier monarch, not semantics over what the slave caste is going to be called/renamed to or if they have theoretical “rights” that they are not given the institutional and political tools to defend. In fact a serf class seems like the sort of benevolent sounding “reform” they might come up with all by themselves while changing very little in practice in helot lives.
Which is why in the western option my mc is potentially willing to give Hallassur the secrets of the wards in exchange for their promise not to reinstitute slavery in any new territories they might gain and also very important, them cutting the Laconniers loose. If they also provide extra details on their Laconnier connections my mc would potentially even be willing to completely normalize and formalize relations with Hallassur in exchange, embassies, ambassadors, trade relations and all.
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Yeah, all they’d be giving up is their right to buy and sell their workers right? They’d just be tied to the land?
I think Havenstone even said you could convince the Lacconniers of that change by appeal to ancient Shayardene custom before the conquest.
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I didn’t say they don’t aspire to one – just that they aren’t one now, so you couldn’t be the Juan Carlos to their Franco. 
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Sorry Havenstone for massive amount of questions
How hard will conquering Karagon then commiting a genocide-by-harowing on its people be? Can a compassionate person do it?
Which lands that are near Avezia did Shayard control during before Karagon gave it to Erets?
What are the consequences of antagonizing the priesthood as a devout MC?
Will the MC be able to be the king of Shayard with Laconnier backing but no fabrication of descent from a De Syrnon?
Is there a way for a Homelander MC to keep the support of the Leagers while refusing to start a koinon?
How will different factions and persons react to a genocide of Karagonds by MC?
How much of a roadblock will saying that Shayardans are by blood superior to other peoples be to a koinon or aliance with Halassur (if it will be possible in the first place)?
Asking for a friend.
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@Azthyme, you’ve made a compelling argument that perhaps Abelard (and the Laconniers as a faction) are fundamentally more self-interested (than genuinely empathetic/altruistic towards the lower orders), but the “Becoming the Mask” trope exists and has very strong staying power for a good reason.
Once the Laconniers are influenced, remade, and/or purged into my MC’s preferred soft nationalism image, being “unable to win over the people of Erezza” will quickly become a thing of the past.
Would accepting some foreign influence from nations who share Shayard’s Xthonic religion really be that much of a problem for the Laconniers?
And by entering into an alliance with Halassur, the Laconniers have already opened themselves to foreign influence, thus contradicting their own goal of “purging foreign influence.”
Or perhaps, is this yet another example of the Laconniers’ “I want to have my cake and eat it too” hypocrisy?
I want Shayard to be big, strong, and influential, too, but not at the cost of betraying my Erretsin allies! 
(especially given how it was an Erezziano theurge (Cerlota) who rescued MC from death in the Xaos-lands)
Once enough Laconniers have been persuaded, intimidated, and/or killed (and unlearn/suppress their revanchist desires), the “new management” Laconniers will eventually work (or be put to work) towards the world I desire!
To paraphrase/borrow @Azthyme’s phrasing, maybe further down the empire-building road, “it just so happens that there’s probably significant overlap between (Cerlota and my MC), not out of any ideological loyalty to each other, but as mere consequence.”
Sounds like a good place to hide a body, too!
Will G2 Ch 2 (and chapters of other future games involving Irduin) also allow MC to discreetly assassinate certain undesirable NPCs, and then hide the body/bodies of their victim(s) in the tin mine?
E.g. revisiting a past idea of mine that Jac Cabel could be murdered and then replaced (by a puppet leader of Homelander Aristo’s choosing) to seize control of the Cabelites, could MC hide Jac’s corpse in Irduin’s tin mine? (after Jac was invited by MC in bad faith to Irduin)
In contrast to my earlier plan of “fraudulently ‘solving’ the murder my MC committed to gain political points”, maybe it might be more productive to go for “no body, no crime!” anonymity approach?
How’s this for a interesting/novel G5 ending:
COM-specializing MC, who previously built himself up as a top general (but not the supreme ruler) of his faction, either ends up exiled or disillusioned from said faction’s leadership, but has inspired enough loyalty/goodwill from his assigned mountain army and the foreign locals to build a new statelet/city-state from scratch on short notice? (basically building his new mountain-centered, small state as a last-minute matter of survival/adaptation, rather than splinter faction state-building being his original plan from the get-go)
Apologies for the lapse in memory/logic on my end.
Anyways, to be more specific, your indicated “necessary connection(s)” is referring to the river pathway from Furnes to Sharwick to Amacia to Avezia, right? (or the outside ocean pathway curve from Corlune to Avezia)
Does this mean that prior to the Hegemony conquering the continent, pre-Hegemony Erezza already had tons of experience operating as an aristo-led oligarchy?
Perhaps Erezza’s elites will have many lessons to share with MC and his Leaguer allies (in this regard).
and the idea of splitting Shayard on vaguely ethnolinguistic lines just isn’t out there yet. But once the idea of Earlund is in the water, most of them would dislike the idea. They’d probably argue that the biggest, richest member of a koinon of nations should be able to find ways to exert disproportionate influence without formally splitting itself in half.
Per what I remember in our recent discussions, restoring Shayard to its historical/revanchist borders will certainly uplift Shayard to the status of grain suzerain (of a dependent Karagon-Wiendrj rump).
But on another note, is “work from behind the scenes to break up every province (except for Shayard) into smaller city states”, in general, going to be the Leaguers’ preferred go-to tactic for ensuring Shayard’s dominance in their envisioned koinon?
Also, compared to the Laconniers, how compelling/strong is the “fully restore Shayard’s old borders” revanchism sentiment amongst the Leaguers?
Quoting what @Aznable posted on Discord a while ago: “the Koinon is clearly a cynical ploy by the cosmo nobility who want to throw off Karagond but also keep the benefits of being the ruling caste of a continent-wide empire
or rather they want to throw off the Karagond theurges to become the true ruling caste
Horion is very smug about how the Karagonds rely on the nobility anyway.”
So Havie, here’s my followup question: given all we’ve learned so far on these forums, is it really that much of a stretch to imagine that the Leaguers’ true goal is to reorganize the Karagond Hegemony into a Shayardene Empire/“Hegemony Lite”? (given the large inclination to agree with Horion’s vision of having Shayard play a dominant role in the koinon)
I also wonder if the Leaguers will undergo a factional split amongst themselves: the Federalists (who truly believe in Horion’s original goal of a Shayardene-led (but not tyrannical) Commonwealth), and the Imperialists (who think Horion’s vision didn’t go far enough to promote Shayard’s disproportionate influence, and thus wish to ‘take the next step’ by promoting Shayard as the sole, undisputed post-Hegemonic imperial power, while also dropping any koinon pretenses).
So in other words, a Shayard-Erezza-Karagon triarchy would not be to Cerlota’s liking.
And would Cerlota prefer to leave fragmented G5 Karagon behind to starve/fend for itself, or might she instead see value in treating the (now separated) Karagon city-states as client states/colonies of a Shayard-Erezza diarchy?
1- Ideological/religious harmony (fellow Xthonists, assemble!)
2- Erezza and MC-led Shayard (after the Laconniers are sufficiently persuaded/cowed/intimidated/purged) both hate Halassur’s guts, and MC has convinced his Shayardene subjects that a Halassur which conquers Erezza will end up conquering Shayard one day as well
3- Some of my more vicious MCs will agree with Cerlota and other Erezziano elites that Karagon ought to be fragmented
4- Coastal Shayardenes and Erretsins share a similar linguistic heritage.
“Pheasant Island is an uninhabited river island located in the Bidasoa river, located between France and Spain, whose administration alternates between the two nations every 6 months.”
Havie, could a Pheasant Island-inspired compromise work out between independent (but allied) Shayard and independent (but allied) Erezza? (with regards to which nation is responsible for governing post-Hegemony Aveche/Avezia)
Or, would MC be better off fully committing himself to a Shayard-Erezza merger, in which Aveche/Avezia becomes the new merger’s capital?
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Koinon, Erezza, the Laconniers, and More
Because this post got pretty damn big somehow, so a title and headings end up seem prudent.
The Laconniers
It’s like, empathy and altruism only go so far. I trust that de Firiac wants to do good by the “lower orders” in their own way, to protect “their people” from what they’d perceive as injustice and wrongdoing. I wouldn’t trust them yet to build a better world than the “lower orders” could build as leaders in their own right.
Of course, this reading is inevitably shaped by my biases, just as I’ve never once believed that any supposed “divine punishment” in this story couldn’t be explained by human action and nature (whether divinely driven or not — I merely lean towards the “not”). Likewise, I’ve never once believed that the Romantic Shayard of ye olde days truly did much more for the “lower orders” than clear the incredibly low bar of not being a blood sacrifice slave state. Peasantry under a socioeconomically dominant aristocratic class is hardly justice.
The story so far, admittedly, does also make it easy to clown on the Laconniers. After all, Horion’s one of our chief perspective on them, and They allegedly “never much liked” him. Speaking of Horion…
Koinon
I, more or less, wholeheartedly agree with his assessment of the Koinon concept (in one of those horseshoe-shaped paths to alignment), though I do believe that Horion genuinely thinks this is the best path forward: perhaps as stable and bloodless as overthrowing the Thaumatarch could be. It advances his and his cohorts’ interests precisely because of that.
Horion’s argument is that the administration of empire exists in a way that transcends the Thaumatarchy itself. It’s only through the collaboration of the elites that the Hegemony functions. Turn that against the Thaumatarch, and his Hegemony ceases to work. The koinon is a vision of what comes after: a new way for that administration to function as a “Great League”, theoretically equals, rather than as an arm of foreign rule.
Get enough people to realize there’s an alternative to the way of things…and it will change.
As for that koinon being “led by a free and strengthened Shayard” — well, recall that Horion’s rhetorical build-up to his pitch was that the arc of history before the Theurgic Revolution bent towards Shayard: the nation with “all the continent’s richest farmland and half the great trade-ports under one crown” and once the heartland of the faith of Xthonos. These advantages have been retained, for now — the second- and third-largest cities in the Hegemony are in Shayard, and it remains the continent’s breadbasket.
It’s likely from his perspective that Shayard is the natural leader for such a koinon. Just look at the other options. Wiendrj and Nyryal lack power projection. Nobody’s going to let Karagon rule again. It’s just Erezza, but their eastern flank is still vulnerable. With this in mind, the ideal outcome for Horion would likely be the continuation of existing provinces (with the potential exception of Karagon) because that avoids instability and disruption of the administration that the koinon must co-opt.
But Horion’s political philosophy developed in a time of relative stability, and is made for such uninteresting times. It certainly does not account for a Xaos-storm bringing down the City Ward around Grand Shayard. It certainly doesn’t account for the possibility that anybody could become a blood mage. It probably doesn’t even account for the possibility that helot and yeoman revolts actually survive. The Leaguers, like every faction, will have to roll with the punches and adapt to the ever-evolving world.
And on that note, Horion likes the idea of Shayard reconquering some of its old imperial territories. He just (rightfully) sees it as an impractical and unnecessary resource sink fighting fellow nations under the Thaumatarch’s rule instead of the Thaumatarch himself.
we can’t recover the power that might have been. As much as I’d love to see bits of it under our rightful rule, the time’s past when Shayard might have conquered Erezza. They’ve got used to being unified, and they’ve been honed by three centuries on the frontline with Halassur.
Tempora mutantur, nos et mutamur in illis.
These choices reflect the choices rebellions will have to make: how much of the old administration ought to be preserved, whether conquest is worth the cost or even possible — and the koinon reflects a belief that at some point, you can’t just force everyone to bend to your will; there’s a limit to that power. But many diverse interests can be willingly united under something greater.
The worldview Horion espouses can also be turned towards more fun purposes as well. I don’t think he’s wrong in observing that the Hegemony only works because of the collaboration of the elites.
It’s cute that They don’t think that makes Them part of the problem.
The Laconniers…Again.
Depends on how much you take Horion’s word for it.
Among other things, they’d like a Court that speaks only Shayarin, save when a Karagond official is present, our children educated on just the Canon and traditional Shayardene texts, with no foreign philosophy, and a policy to make Shayard self-providing in all things, rather than trading with the other provinces.
And as I said before, there’s not really a reason for the Laconniers to see themselves as being under Halassurq influence even as they accept their aid. Their interests align; that’s all it has to be. What are the Halassurqs gonna do, nicely ask for their money and Theurge-forged weapons back? What’s been given can’t be ungiven. The Laconniers can easily believe that they’re in control and can stop whenever they want. The reality doesn’t even matter there.
Furthermore, every nation except for Nyryal shares the “Xthonic religion”. Karagon included. Especially Karagon, the nation the Laconniers take most offence to. And none of them follow the Shayardene Codex, for those who care, and evangelism for that is more akin to shaping other nations in Shayard’s image — if they’d even accept it.
This is why I’m proposing we take everyone by surprise and institute a faith designating Nyryal as Xthonos’s chosen country. It’s so outside the box that it could only be lunacy or divine will. And in the worst case scenario, it would give all the more militant sects a common enemy they can hypothetically bond over.
(But yes, the Laconniers are hypocrites under Horion’s interpretation, LARPing under invented traditions more like foreign ones than historical Shayardene)
Erezza and Avezia
It’s likely that Erezza was never meaningfully unified prior to the Karagond Conquest. See Horion’s comment above about how they “got used to being unified”, or Erjan’s remark that “I am told that only Karagond oppression has forced the many city-states of Errets to accept Soretto as their capital.”
These are, of course, only outside perspectives. Given the region’s Italian influences, one could point to the Italian peninsula’s periods of fragmentation throughout history, though the maritime republics seem to be a chief inspiration. In this sense, it could be said that Erezza was ruled by aristos. Whether Erezza (as a nation-state) was ruled, however…
Speaking of Italy:
How very Roman.
It’s difficult to evaluate situations like this from our position of little knowledge because the circumstances that would lead to this are so precise. A state looking to exile one of its top generals would do well to make sure that general isn’t in a position to abscond with an army and a weapon of mass destruction. A disillusioned general in control of an army and a WMD could be in a great position to coup the government, or at the very least would have time to plan their rebellion. Essentially, something has gone wrong for the first mover here.
Highlighted the part that makes this seem less feasible for Avezia.
There is a malformed objective that can arise from this, though. There’s a very simple (“simple”) solution to prevent conflict between Shayard and Erezza over who rules the city. It’s called sinking the land below the waves and wiping the city from the face of the earth. Can’t fight over it if it can’t exist anymore.
More seriously, my opinion concurs that Avezia-as-capital, or Avezia as its own city-state, would be the most likely unhappy compromises.
“More”
Some brief comments on Jac Cabel because I find him a pretty interesting concept: he’s been a rebel for 46 years now and said to still be on the move. He’s probably an old man by now, and were it not for metatext suggesting we’ll eventually meet him, I’d have suggested he’s long dead and just a spectre of a name haunting the Westriding, keeping the symbol of rebellion alive. But given that he’s survived for this long and has managed to remain largely in the shadows, while also carrying the memory of his mother being “betrayed” by the aristocracy — he seems like a very cautious man, and a dangerous one.
Erezza and Avezia…Again. (Reply)
So now that we have this information, it’s time to break out the ol’ map and update the old assumptions. Though Sescia wasn’t actually included in the screenshot we had available, which conveniently allows me to handwave any numbers here as a very rough lower bound (bearing in mind that all of this is just eyeballing what territory would be claimed, roughly triangulated around landmarks visible on the hand-drawn gameworld map, particularly Avezia itself, the peninsula, and the section of uncultivated land surrounded by hills that Lacevra sits in).
Altogether, we’re looking at maybe around a (again, very rough estimate of) 17% or more reduction in Erezza’s territory, and a 24% or more reduction in cropland, assuming that control of Sescia also entails control over the peninsula (adjust numbers down slightly if not). For perspective, Shayard eating Aveche and Halassur eating all the way to Cocenza (as Erjan suggests) would cut Erezza down to around half its present size.
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Most prominent Shayardene noble Houses claim to be “old” – certainly the de Tomans, leaders of the Laconniers, do, and their support would be a big boost for a nationalist MC.
That’s linked to the Starry-eyed Optimism stat, not Charisma.
Well, that’s certainly what I intend to write.
Easy for partial conquests and partial genocides. Very difficult if you want to try to be thoroughgoing about either.
A compassionate person can become ruthless. There’s no way for a person to genocide their enemies and stay compassionate, but I don’t intend to make it unchooseable for people with a high compassion score.
The whole coast of the Aveche Sea to Sescia, and the Aveche uplands to Lacevra.
You disconnect yourself from them as an institution, while keeping open the option of appealing to other devout populations (this can be especially potent if you’re a charismatic prophet).
The Laconniers would only support a de Syrnon candidate as monarch of Shayard. Anyone else is a usurper.
The koinon idea is pretty central to who the Leaguers are. I don’t think you’ll keep their support if you abandon it.
Many will celebrate it. Many will abhor it, especially among ex-collaborator provincial elites who fear they’ll be next in line.
Dishonoring or disrespecting Halassur is not going to yield an alliance.
There are no foreign allies less likely than Halassur to influence/corrupt true Shayardene nationalism, in the Laconnier view. The Halassurqs are distinct and distant enough for relations to remain entirely transactional. Errets is much more worrisome, especially with Horion and others already claiming that Laconnier habits were originally Erezziano, and Aveche as a sticking point.
Could be – we’ll see as I write it. But I doubt you’ll ever get Jac Cabel to Irduin.
I don’t think you could sustain a flying mountain micro-state, cool as the idea is. You’d need to be continually landing to restock on food and water, and for that to be possible in even the short-medium term, you’d need some sort of territorial claim beyond your mountain.
Yes, you’d need to hold either an inland link (the Fyrne River) or the coastal towns or both.
Pre-Hera, Erezza was a geographical expression, not a unified polity. There were dozens of statelets along the isthmus, each with their own contending noble families.
No – as @Azthyme guessed, they generally think Shayard’s agricultural and trade dominance will be enough to make it first among equals. They’re significantly less revanchist about the borders than the Laconniers; they’d be happy to see Shayard win back its lost territories but largely share Horion’s view that it’s not a primary goal. Could they be tempted into a more aggressive imperialism under the guise of koinon (like Athens’ koinon in real life)? Maybe.
Yes, with interventions as needed to keep it fragmented and weak. She doesn’t want to colonize Karagon if she can leave it in pieces.
That’s our world’s most stable and successful land condominium, as far as I’m aware – and it’s slightly under two acres. I don’t think you could make anything remotely like it work for a territory more like the size of Senegal.
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I kinda missed this one, can anyone elaborate on what they were larping that were actually invented?
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What were the ancestral de Tomans’ (claimed) role in the de Syrnon administration’s reign of Olde Shayard? (that would give the de Tomans enough legitimacy to lead the movement paving the return of the One True Monarch)
Do NPCs also have a ‘homesickness’ stat, too? (E.g. throughout, MC keeps stationing his allied/subordinate NPCs away from their respective homelands to perform important tasks for him, and then said NPCs start sending requests to MC to be allowed to occasionally take time off to visit their respective homelands)
Will bluffing the possibility of genocide be a valid tactic for a (normally) compassionate MC? (especially if compassionate MC spent G2-G5 establishing a “flank effect” of teaming up his (normally) nonviolent faction alongside a more extreme, violent faction)
And on a separate but related FYI (with regards to compassionate characters turning ruthless), one of my envisioned branching paths for Pacifist MC (Velen Stardust, 2CHA/1INT Male Helot - Compassionate/Devout/Homelander) is for Velen to start learning Theurgy to fight back/tear down his enemies. Freed of his naivety after surviving/escaping the Hegemony’s raid on the Whendward Band, Velen now realizes that he can only be “as good as the world allows him to be.” Now freed of his silly, self-imposed shackles of pacifism, Velen shall finally teach the ‘world’ (the Hegemony) the consequences of murdering/oppressing his comrades: endless barrages of holy fire!
Once the Hegemony collapses, are the priesthood of each province (and/or city-state) inclined to install puppet leaders who will closely abide by preferred Xthonic doctrine (similar to what my Homelander Eclect MC may have in mind for his preferred de Syrnon claimant), or will the priesthood instead seek to “cut out the middlemen” by positioning themselves as candidate replacement rulers of new theocrac(ies)?
How plausible might it be for MC (who forges aristo credentials to claim the Shayardene throne) to experience dissociative identity disorder, especially if MC got too deep in method acting AND neglected to take steps to fix their mental health during the Xaosland trip?
Doesn’t the dual identity of the Leaguer membership (soft nationalists and cosmopolitans coming together to achieve a shared goal) prove an important exception to this trend?
I’m confused here. Shouldn’t this Laconnier-Erezziano similarity in habits function as a point of unity/cultural common ground, rather than division?
Or does the Laconnier inclination towards realpolitik once again triumph over any feelings of cultural commonality?
Also, why isn’t “Aveche becoming the jointly owned capital of a newly merged Shayard-Erezza empire” such an easy compromise for the Laconniers to grasp? (especially if MC followed @Ramidel 's suggestion about making room for “light treason social club” outlets to channel nationalistic urges)
At this rate, I’m increasingly seeing the value of mimicking @roodcross’s growing preference for Leaguers (over Laconniers).
How’s this for alternative, hypothetical G5 context: the Shayard-Erezza alliance ultimately breaks down over the “Aveche as sticking point” elephant in the room, and then top general MC (stationed outside Shayard’s borders, equipped with both mountain and its army) is given the order by united Shayard’s leadership to fight against Erretsins to secure Aveche for Shayard.
MC (who put a lot of work/investment in building up his envisioned Shayard-Erezza alliance) is pissed off by his leaders’ short-sightedness, and then declares his (now former) bosses to be illegitimate. He then forms a government-in-exile from his mountain army (“the true sons and daughters of Shayard, who understand honor”), and seeks asylum/supply restocking privileges in unified Erezza’s borders (along with seeking Erretsin military support in planning a coup against MC’s former Shayardene bosses).
After the envisioned coup is pulled off as planned, MC either becomes the new monarch (or true power behind his preferred puppet monarch) of historical Shayard (minus jointly owned Avezia), and then reinstates the Shayard-Erezza alliance.
In comparison to the much-discussed community of Aveche/Avezia, what are the general attitudes of the residents of Steswick/Stezyc and Veldrin? (in the context of rejoining Shayard or staying with their current Wiendish/Karagond overlords)
If size is an issue, then I will redirect the focus of my question. Could the Pheasant Island-style compromise work for Scarthe?
The above bold quotes certainly puts into perspective why the Leaguers will be able to win over soft nationalists (from all provinces) into their ranks, and why revanchism isn’t such a top priority for the Leaguers (despite admittedly liking the idea).
Quoting the previous Uprising thread:
Me: "I’m getting the impression that the Laconniers want to “eat their cake and have it too”.
Havenstone: “This is part of any nationalism. There’s no single true answer to the question of how much of a culture is indigenous and how much is “someone else’s.” Hardline nationalists draw lines and try to close their eyes to any arbitrary or ambiguous results. So the Laconniers would say here that the Hegemonic mainstream here is consistent with the historic practices of Shayard (and ignore whatever evidence there might be that calls that into question). As long as the evidence is small or debatable enough to ignore, this is a sustainable response.
The Laconniers are douchey nationalists. Whether or not you can influence them to change… we’ll see!”
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Hello all! I’m going to log off the forums for a while in the interests of increasing my XoR writing output and getting Ch2 into the world sooner rather than later. So see you all at some point in 2024…
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We’ll miss you, but at least it’s for an excellent cause. Merry Christmas, Happy New Year, good luck with the writing, and hope to see you soon-ish!
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