NGL I assumed the allusion here was intentional, i.e. rootless implying an essential foreignness and capture by outside influences (I guess Wiends in this case?).
11 Likes
*if natl > 74
"Raving endlessly about Shayard being greater than any other land.
*if skep > 74
"More disbelieving and blasphemous than any Nere!
*if natl < 26
@{(skep > 74) Pulling|"Pulling} in rebel Whends, and all sorts of rabble, by abandoning the folkways of any one land or people.
*if skep < 26
@{(natl > 74) Spouting|"Spouting} heresies about the @{((religion > 0) and (religion < 6)) Eclect of the Angels|Angels taking their side}!
I think this section in irduin.txt might have the same issue I brought up earlier of not taking into account the combination of high nationalism and high skepticism, or low nationalism and low skepticism. The only issue here would be misplaced quotation marks.
I don’t code so I´m unsure if this would actually work, but if you switched to check for high/low nationalism and then high/low skepticism, maybe you could have something like:
*if natl > 74
"Raving endlessly about Shayard being greater than any other land.
*if natl < 26
"Pulling in rebel Whends, and all sorts of rabble, by abandoning the folkways of any one land or people.
*if skep > 74
@{(natl > 74) or (natl < 26) More|"More} disbelieving and blasphemous than any Nere!
*if skep < 26
@{(natl > 74) or (natl < 26) Spouting|"Spouting} heresies about the @{(religion > 0) and (religion < 6) Eclect of the Angels|Angels taking their side}!
4 Likes
Hello, I reappear. Something posted above caught my attention…
Fascinating. Absolutely fascinating. I have a particular interest in the aristocracy and its eclipse, primarily in late antiquity but it parallels what happened in early modern periods too. In both cases you have what used to be a warrior elite becoming landed, and obtaining vast wealth and political power and eventually resting on their laurels as they dominate the levers of power unto they get challenged by a rising “meritocratic” economic elite restive and no longer content with subordinate status.
In the case of the hegemony though it’s interesting bc it was Theurgy that made it what it is, right? Before that, Karagon was a city state or one among many city-states, right? So unlike Rome or the medieval aristocracies, the old blood elite didn’t forge the empire. How did they maintain their status? What is the basis of their position in society (whether challenged or eclipsed by a striving theurgic class)? (I’m thinking how the Roman senatorial elite or the Japanese kuge leveraged culture and education to maintain their status even as they were politically eclipsed from below)
Does this also mean the leader of the hegemony (ecclesiarch? I’ve been away for a while) is a member of the theurgic class rather than the old aristocracy?
I always play the aristo background for my character, usually either charisma or intelligence so the relationship between status and theurgy is of interest as I play my provincial petit aristo. I’ll be honest, I usually pick intelligence so I can appear cultured and educated as a classical aristo should rather than necessarily seeking theurgy but that path is intertwined…
7 Likes
Don’t demotivate them.They need to think they’ll amount to something other than a drone to keep to system running or fodder on the frontlines.
5 Likes
Thaumatarch, and yes Kleitos is an extremely accomplished Theurge, as were his foremothers. Hera (the first Thaumatarch) is credited with the development of harrowing and ‘aetherial blood’, leading to theurgy as we know it.
(I say foremothers because of the three Thaumatarchs, the first two were women, Hera and Eosphora.)
4 Likes
That’s the title! I knew I was remembering it incorrectly.
I’m curious given what I quoted above what social stratum they come from.
3 Likes
Wonderful to see you as always. 
The first part of this process was well underway in Shayard, whose warrior aristocracy had subdued half the continent and were settling into their laurels, consolidating power in areas of recent conquest. Erezza had a landed elite with much smaller estates, broken up by the more mountainous terrain, but had significant wealth from maritime trade with their rivals in Shayard and Halassur.
Aekos and the other Karagond city-states had a landed elite, but they lacked both the large holdings of Shayard and the trade wealth of Erezza; their harsh slave system allowed the Karagond elite to monopolize what wealth could be extracted from the largely rugged land. After Hera’s discoveries, the most cultured/educated elements of that elite learned the Theurgic secret and started to overrun their neighbors. They were less interested in seizing ownership of vast tracts of land, and more in replicating the free/helot social structure that facilitated lethal blood extraction. The conquered aristos who were ready to support that social transformation were allowed to retain their local status with its privileges.
Back home, Hera and team didn’t want their secret to spread too widely, so they trained as few Theurges as they could get away with while they built the Mystikon infrastructure to protect the secret. They bought off Karagon’s non-Theurgic elites by encouraging the local landed nobility to enjoy lives of luxury beyond that of the Shayardene nobles. As in contemporary Qatar or Saudi Arabia, the highest elite poured extracted wealth into the other upper classes. The result was a society that is (by game time) significantly more urbanized (27%) and aristocratic (2.73%) than the Hegemony’s provinces (15% and 1.6%) and whose non-landed merchant class, priests, and noble retainers (another collective 17% of the population) are all significantly wealthier than their provincial equivalents. If you’re not a drudge, helot, or slum-dweller, it’s pretty great to be Karagond.
Nyryal and Wiendrj were less agrarian-hierarchical societies at the time of conquest, and the imposition of the noble-helot social structure was less pervasive. Both have a post-Conquest aristocracy comprising less than 1% of their population, given how much less of the land is suited to large estates. Both have a disproprortionately high share of their population serving as enlisted Phalangites. After multiple attempts to impose an aristo structure on the nomadic population, the Hegemony gave up and imposed a more egalitarian blood harvesting approach on that 18%-ish of the population. The mineral wealth of Wiendrj means that many more Wiends were designated as drudges than helots.
The Thaumatarch is absolutely a member of the Theurgic class, which by his time was a very different animal than the Karagond landed nobility.
6 Likes
This really makes me lean to the Morgenthau solution to deal with Karagon.
2 Likes
What is it like to be a helot in the heartland? Is it notably better than in the provinces? Do they have any sort of privileges? Do they look down on slaves from the periphery?
7 Likes
Is it possible the proportion of helots to free persons in gradually declining in less fertile regions of the Hegemony as helots are sold south from places like Karagond to Shayard?
This kind of twisted form of “arbitrage” in enslaved people existed in the antebellum slave states in the US.
I would expect that the proportion of the population that is helot is rising faster in Shayard than in other parts of the Hegemony owing to the productivity of its land as well as yeomen being squeezed tighter and tighter.
4 Likes
@Havenstone Can we expect Bethune as leader of the Commotion to stick to non-violent methods of resistance if that’s the sort of rebellion we’ve created? Not necessary full on pacifism, just only acting out of self defense. And looking ahead, is there any realistic chance of pushing the wider Cabelite movement away from violence? They seem like a pretty aggressive group based on their history and stated goals.
One other question, does a non-violent MC deciding to fight at the end of Uprising erase the previous reputation they’ve built up? It’s an odd combination, you can end the game with a gandhi stat of 12 and violence set to 1, but you’ve still just caused the deaths of hundreds of people.
As I was thinking about this question I came across what could be 2 small potential bugs. The value for the gandhi stat can be as high as 12 but these spots in irduin.txt only check for a value of 2. Zebed is dead for the gandhi values of 0, 1, 10, and 11 so I think the check should be (gandhi = 2) or (gandhi = 12)
You try to imagine how @{(gandhi = 2) |the late} Ecclesiast Zebed from Rim Square would have reacted to layfolk claiming to speak Angelic truth, in any context.
Every time you overhear the helots in friendly conversation with Irduin’s free folk over an ale, some irrational part of you is braced for @{((gandhi < 2) and (rescuer = 0)) the late|} Ecclesiast Zebed to arrive and cry heresy.
2 Likes
Snippet day! Here’s the bulk of the Baldassare scene I mentioned a month-ish ago.
If you agree to spy on Baldassare for kuria Alasais
You find lady de Irde in her outer chambers, consulting with Alastor Korren. At your hesitation, she gestures to her footman to close the doors behind you, then beckons you closer. “Speak openly, ${ird_name}. The Captain is fully aware of the task I’ve set you.”
Delivering a spy-report on a Telone in front of an Alastor? $!{oath}. You’re not half as sure as Alasais about Korren’s loyalties; but if she’s already told him, there’s little more damage you can do now. “Our friend received a messenger from Marbrey today. He was extremely keen to keep anyone from finding @{(baldspy = 6) out—paid the man extra to not spend even a single night here, and checked to make sure he’d not spoken to anyone|out}. Seemed to me there’s some secret that might be useful there, and that I should let you know.”
Without taking her eyes off you, Alasais addresses Korren in a low voice. “This courier will have made camp somewhere in our demesne. I think it might be best if you found him and relieved him of his missive.” The Alastor captain bows and leaves at once.
You clear your throat, uncomfortable under her stare. “Couldn’t the Telone make trouble over you reading his messages, milady?”
“House de Irde will have done no such thing. It is the responsibility of the Alastors to intercept suspicious messengers. Rebels may seek to spread their seditions under a counterfeit Telone’s seal, after all.” Her lips twist slightly. “And no one save the Innkeeps saw a rider come for the Telone today. The Innkeeps, and you.”
*fake_choice
#“As you commanded me, kuria,” I remind her. “I’d not otherwise have put my nose into such matters.”
“Would you not?”
*goto oddtaut
#“The Telone @{(baldspy > 6) knows|doesn’t know} I saw his messenger.”
*if baldspy <= 6
“Then there’s no reason for you to be further involved,” Alasais says decisively.
*if (baldspy > 6)
*if baldspy = 7
“He thinks I’m your spy,” you admit. It’s sure to come out, anyway.
*goto allthemorere
*if baldspy = 8
“He thinks I’m serving someone with power—someone he betrayed in Marbrey.”
*label allthemorere
“All the more reason to distance you from the rest of the matter,” Alasais says decisively.
*if baldspy < 7
“And he’s probably on his way to see you now and complain about my blackmailing.”
“You think so? I doubt he’d choose to raise the matter of Marbrey with me at all—certainly not while his courier is still in arm’s reach.” Alasais gives a small, hard smile.
#I shrug. “I’m not about to tell anyone about any of this.”
“No, I should hope not.”
*label oddtaut
There’s an odd tautness in Alasais’s voice, making you uneasy.
“I’d advise you to return to the Chesnery, ${ird_name}, and keep yourself far from the Telone. We’ll see what can be achieved with this.”
*label baldfoch
*choice
*disable_reuse #I ask if Captain Korren would share with me what he learns about the Telone’s business in Marbrey.
A line forms between lady Alasais’s brows. “Whyever would the Captain do that?”
“You asked me to help find information that could lead to the Telone leaving Irduin, kuria. We can’t be sure yet whether this…”
She interrupts you, a trifle sharply. “I asked for information, and you have provided it. Now I would like to test your ability to refrain from prying until such time as I ask you for more. Do you understand me?”
“Of course, milady.” You bow and hurry from the room, unsettled by the encounter.
*set doirefrain true
*goto baldfoch
#@{doirefrain But I still|I} stay close to them to see when they confront Baldassare, so I can spy on that meeting.
*goto spyonalkobal
*if doirefrain
#Honestly, now I’m more interested to see if I can overhear them talking about me.
@{(tam_rel = 0) Even allowing for her continued anger over Auche’s scandal, you’d have|You’d} thought a successful test of your spying skills would lead to her wanting to make more use of them, or some easing in her suspicion—not the brittle hostility you sensed throughout your encounter. Something is off-kilter, and you mean to find out what.
*goto spyonalkobal
#I keep my distance, as the lady told me to. If this keeps her from expelling me from Irduin, it’s good enough.
From that distance, you keep an eye on the Telone to see if there’s
*label irritbald
*set baldspy 11
any sign of his expulsion—but he seems as relentless, irritable, and immovable as ever. Clearly whatever he was up to in Marbrey wasn’t scandalous enough to lever him out of his duties here.
*return
*label spyonalkobal
You hover around the @{((ird_focus = 1) or (ird_subfocus = 1)) de Irdes|estate} and Alastor barracks for several days, waiting to see if whatever they’ve found out gives them leverage against the Telone. When you finally observe Baldassare hurrying toward the manor’s uppermost rooms, you’re sure it’s for a meeting with the lady kuria.
*if ((int < 3) and (com < 3))
Unfortunately, there’s no way for you to get close enough to overhear @{(int > 1) them—even with ${wisardry}, the number of walls and floors separating you is just too great for you to focus on their voices|them; your presence in any of the rooms in earshot would be noticed and questioned}.
*if not(doirefrain)
When Baldassare stalks out, all you can do is watch from afar with frustrated curiosity. You do keep an eye out over the following days for
*goto irritbald
*if doirefrain
You still work your way in as @{((com > 1) or (int > 1)) close|unobtrusively} as you can. By the time you manage to reach a neighboring room @{((com > 1) or (int > 1)) unseen|without raising any alarms}, their conversation is nearly done. You’re both surprised and disappointed to hear lady Alasais’s closing words: "Accept
*goto overhearalkor
*else
It takes all your @{(int = 3) concentration and ${wisardric} skill to be able to focus on their voices through multiple floors and walls—but|agility, speed, and stealth to get yourself up to a perch on the roof without being spotted—but} you manage, just in time to hear the Telone say, “Captain. Milady. You requested my presence?”
“I did, segnure Baldassare.” Lady Alasais speaks crisply. “You should be aware that Captain Korren has of late redoubled his efforts to catch any rebel agents that might dare to trespass in our demesne.”
“And not before time!” The ${erretsin}'s scorn is cuttingly plain.
In response, Korren allows himself a chuckle. “We’ve been warned that the rebels are sending messages under forged seal. Nobles, Syntechnia houses. Telones.”
There’s a silence, broken eventually by a rustle of paper and Alasais saying, “Does this letter appear to be authen…?”
“Of course I can confirm that it is mine,” Baldassare cuts her off in a low snarl.
“Wait, wait now, no snatching. You’re confirming that you, personally, recently wrote to Marbrey? To…kuria Agniesz of House Cestok?” Korren sounds amused. “I must say, these professions of concern for her welfare hold real passion, Telone. Clearly written from the heart. It’s one reason I was disinclined to believe…”
*page_break
“She is twelve.” Baldassare nearly spits out the words. “The last scion of a House hemmed in by predatory neighbors, all competing to devour what remains of her land. She was orphaned, almost certainly to murder, though that has gone unacknowledged and uninvestigated by Alastor and aristarch alike.” When the only response is silence, the Telone concludes in a lower but still savage tone: “And she is exceedingly intelligent. Enough to know precisely how alone she is. And precisely how unlikely to survive.”
“Yet…somehow also fortunate enough to receive regular written advice on the preservation of her estate from a seasoned Telone?” Alasais speaks slowly, mystified. “How long was your service in Marbrey, kurios?”
“Four years, kuria de Irde.”
“And were you quartered on the estate of this unfortunate House Cestok, or one of its…predatory neighbors?”
“I took my room and board from perhaps the highest House in Marbrey.” A subtle shift in Baldassare’s tone of contempt makes clear his response to the lady’s question.
“The aristarchs? The de Gautier?” Alasais responds after a moment’s thought. At a surprised-sounding grunt from Korren, she adds, “No, I don’t keep up with all sixty-odd aristarchal families across Shayard. But Marbrey is no mean district—and I’ve reason to know the Traditionalists.”
“The de Gautier, yes.” Baldassare also sounds slightly taken aback. “I do not concern myself with Ciarreno factional politics.”
“Truly? Because the Traditionalists are concerned with you.” Korren’s voice has sharpened. “They’re behind your placement here, man. @{(tyndar < 5) Tyndar de Wrase, who used to be married to the lady kuria, is one of them. You’re their tool against her|You’re their tool}.”
*fake_choice
*if (tyndar > 4)
#Hm. I’d not expected them to openly tell Baldassare they know that Tyndar sent him here.
*if (tyndar < 2)
#I try to remember what I’ve heard about the Traditionalist faction.
[…]
*if (tyndar < 2)
#I’d have thought the de Irde were traditionalists themselves…but apparently that’s not enough to qualify them for this faction.
*if (tyndar >= 2) and (tyndar <=4)
#Via lady Alasais’s ex-husband? Things are beginning to fall into place.
#I’m still adjusting to the idea that the Telone’s dark secret was helping a young noble girl survive.
#Baldassare’s story is surely self-serving. I don’t believe it for an instant.
*if tyndar < 5
*set tyndar 5
“I am no noble’s tool,” Baldassare counters. “I perform my duty in all diligence, without fear or favor, in accordance with my oaths. Any aristo who dreams of using me otherwise is a fool.”
“Like the Traditionalists who arranged to have you placed in Marbrey.” Alasais now sounds quietly fascinated. “They thought you’d serve their interests. And perhaps you did, in some respects—otherwise they’d not have called for you elsewhere. But clearly not when it came to this beleaguered little House they meant to swallow up.”
“The Cestok were victims, not perpetrators, of lawlessness. Objects of a long campaign by certain Ciarreno Houses to purge the last Uendrians from the district. My duty to the ideals of the Hegemony was plain.” Bitterness still pulses in the Telone’s voice. “Even though my support had to be discreet, thanks to the corruption of Marbrey’s Alastors.”
“The Laconniers can’t be aware of all he’s been up to.” Korren’s talking to Alasais, as if Baldassare isn’t even there. “They’d not have set him on us if they knew he’d ever worked against their purposes. Would they?”
“Anyone who suspected that the law was not being fully respected in Irduin—which of course we have already found to be true, and by no means entirely remedied!—would have been well advised to send me here,” Baldassare retorts thinly. @{(baldspy = 8) "And for your Traditionalists, I expect their spy ${ird_name} has told them all about my doings in Marbrey, or shall soon. Regardless, do|“Do} not think that your knowledge of this letter will affect my duties with regard to your demesne, milady.”
Alasais barely pauses before saying, “I would expect no such thing, Telone. Your devotion to duty is both clear and commendable. So please accept
*achieve baldmarb
*label overhearalkor
my apologies for the misunderstanding over your letter. Now that we know the courier was no rebel fraud, we shall see him safely on his way.”
*fake_choice
#@{((int < 3) and (com < 3)) I’m surprised and disappointed. Did the message truly have no extortion value?|What is she thinking? Whatever the man says, she could surely force him out of Irduin with this.}
#Perhaps the lady @{((int < 3) and (com < 3)) still means to use whatever she’s learned, without Baldassare being aware of it.|thinks she can best get rid of him with an anonymous message to his enemies?}
#@{doirefrain I’m mainly interested to see if the lady and captain have anything to say about their spy.|I wonder if they’ll say anything more illuminating when he’s gone.}
After a brief and uncomfortable leavetaking, the room’s door thuds shut behind Baldassare. You strain your @{(int > 2) ${wisardric}ally enhanced hearing in|ears against} the ensuing silence, wondering if they’ve dropped into whispers; but when Korren finally speaks, it’s in a normal low voice. “Do you truly think we couldn’t push him out with this, kuria?”
“If he were hiding corruption or fornication, as we’d hoped…” Lady Alasais sighs. “But it seems those aren’t among our Telone’s flaws.”
The captain snorts. “Does it matter? He may say he doesn’t care about factional politics; but he has to know that his old patrons would cut his throat if they knew everything he’d been up to.”
“And did that affect how he behaved at Barningday? No: I say better to eke some trace of goodwill out of him with this secret, rather than making threats that will most likely fail.” There’s another silence, and then,
*if ird_sus < ird_sus_med
“Tell ${ird_name} that ${he} needs to stop dogging the Telone’s steps. $!{he}'s heard it from me, but better to have it openly from you, too.”
“Aye, we’d have no goodwill from Baldassare if he thinks we’re still sending spies after him.” The amusement fades fast from Korren’s voice.
*if ird_sus > ird_sus_low
“Especially spies probably dispatched by friends of your ex-husband.”
“@{(baldspy = 8) You think the Telone guessed rightly, do you|That thought came to you, too, did it}?” Alasais also sounds mirthless. “I’d not been sure what to make of our curious @{sralibi tinker|herbalist|tutor|swords${woman}|player} when ${he} actually started spying on a Telone. How many would-be informants would dare that? But now that we know who in Grand Shayard might bear a grudge against both segnure Baldassare and myself…”
@{(tam_rel = 0) “The idea of that bastard stirring up rumors that might ruin his own son, just to strike at you?” You hear Korren smack a fist into his palm. "I wish I thought he was above that. Do|“Do} you want me to run ${ird_name} off?”
"No. They’d just send someone else we needed to identify. But keep
*goto keepaneye
*if ird_sus <= ird_sus_low
“You know…${ird_name} must truly love Irduin if ${he} was ready to spy on an honest-to-Angels Telone just because you told ${him} to.”
“Indeed ${he} must. Or perhaps @{(baldspy = 8) as Baldassare alleged,|} ${he}'s a spy for my ex-husband, sent to cause trouble for me and the Telone.” Alasais doesn’t quite sound like she’s making a joke. “Keep
*label keepaneye
an eye on @{alone ${him},|}
*if not(alone)
${him} and ${his} @{(gam and cerl_here) cronies|crony},
Captain.”
*set ird_sus +1
*fake_choice
#$!{oath}.
*if ((int < 3) and (com < 3))
#Whatever was in that letter had something to do with lady Alasais’s former husband—and @{(baldspy = 8) thanks to my bluff with Baldassare,|} they think I do too.
#At least they’re not calling me rebel behind closed doors. To that extent, my caution has paid off.
#I’ll watch Korren right back, and be ready to run if needed.
*return
*if ird_sus >= ird_sus_med
“What does this mean for our @{sralibi good${woman} tinker|prying herbalist|curious tutor|spying swords${woman}|good${woman} player} and ${his} extraordinary appetite for other people’s secrets?”
“${ird_name}?” Korren lets out his breath through his teeth, while you hold yours. “It muddies the question. Yesterday, I thought @{(ird_unity < ird_unity_med) we could be sure|maybe} ${he}'s spying for the rebels. @{(ird_unity < ird_unity_med) All the trouble we’ve had since ${he} came, and the|The} fact that ${he} actually did dare to spy on the Telone for you, rather than tattling to him, or just trying to sneak off one night…”
*fake_choice
#$!{oath}.
#I drive my knuckles silently but fiercely into my palm.
#I’d not thought she was testing my loyalties from that angle.
“But now we have to wonder if ${he}'s just a spy for your once-husband and his cronies instead. Since they’ve also got a grudge against this Telone they sent us. Could they be trying to bring both of you down?”
“Segnure Baldassare thinks the Traditionalists don’t know what he’s been up to in Marbrey.” Alasais sounds doubtful. “We now know they’ve grounds for a grudge, but…all of this might be distracting us from the likeliest conclusion.”
“Do you want me to bring good${woman} ${alias} in for questioning, then?”
“No. Not yet.” You hear the swish of the lady kuria’s long robes over the floor. “For now, just keep watching @{alone ${him}.”|}
*if not(alone)
${him} and ${his} @{(gam and cerl_here) cronies.“|crony.”}
*choice
#Right—time to leave Irduin. Before they decide to do more than just bloody watch @{alone me|us}.
*set fleetime true
*return
#No. Best to wait until their attention is less intensive than it will be for the next couple of weeks.
*return
#I’m not leaving until @{(irdgoal > 3) I’ve brought down the de Irde.|I’m sure that Irduin is going to stand up to the Hegemony.}
*return
14 Likes
And a bonus snippet for those of you who might like talking theology with Tamran.
One investigative option before you go make your report to kuria Alasais
*choice
*hide_reuse #@{(baldspy != 6) Back at the inn, |}I take Tamran aside and ask what she knows about the messenger [from Marbrey to Baldassare].
She’s already shaking her head before the question has left your mouth. “I know that no message he bore was for you, ${alias}.”
You @{(tam_rel = 0) catch her arm to keep her from walking away|try to think of how you can convince her to betray a confidence}. “Lady Alasais has asked me to keep an eye on the Telone and see if I notice anything that might help her pry him out of Irduin before he does any damage that can’t be repaired. If there’s any secret here he wants kept…for the village’s sake, and the lady kuria’s…”
Tamran just looks at you levelly. “Dama and I aren’t in the business of sharing people’s secrets, ${alias}.”
“Even when the consequences of staying silent are…?”
“Does anyone but Xthonos know all consequences?” She cuts you off. “Let’s not pretend we do, good${woman}.”
*choice
#“I thought Xthonos knew nothing except Its perfect Self. Is this some idea your father’s come up with?”
*goto tamran_theology
#“You don’t need to know all consequences to know what’s more likely to cause harm or help.”
“That’s true,” she concedes. “But in this case, you’re wrong to think that you know the consequences of driving Baldassare out of Irduin, ${alias}. That’s arrogance, and mistaken.”
You raise your eyebrows. “So you’re telling me that if the lady kuria knew the message, she could drive him out?”
*goto dontknowmess
#$!{oath}, I’ve no interest in arguing any sort of philosophy with her. “You’re defending the wrong man’s secrets.”
“You don’t know that, ${alias}.” Tamran is adamant. “You know barely anything of the Telone.”
“Help me know him better, then. If you don’t think he’ll harm Irduin, if you think the lady kuria’s wrong to hope to see the back of him…tell me what you know of him that makes you so sure.”
There’s a note of finality in her voice. “Well attempted. But I’m not going to tell you his secrets, one way or the other.”
*set baldspy 4
*goto baldmess
*label tamran_theology
“No, it’s nothing he’d have heard from the Angels.” Tamran doesn’t seem at all intimidated by any suggestion of heresy. “And are you truly interested in this, anyway? I thought you were busy trying to ferret out the Telone’s secrets.”
*choice
#“If I weren’t interested, I wouldn’t have asked.”
*goto tamran_theology_2
#“I don’t ferret.” @{(baldspy = 6) And it’s clear that I won’t find anything else out from her.|But I do want to see what I can find out from the messenger}.
You walk off—with as un-ferretlike a gait as you can manage—and
*if baldspy = 6
consider your next steps.
*goto baldmess
*else
immediately head down to find the Marbrey courier.
*goto shadowmessen
#“All I want is for you to tell me what you know about this message from Marbrey.”
“I know that it’s no concern of yours, ${ird_name}.”
You tilt your head to one side. “Because it wouldn’t serve the lady kuria’s purposes, in any case? Because it’s nothing that could be used to send the Telone on his way?”
*label dontknowmess
“I don’t know what use the message might be put to,” Tamran @{(tam_rel = 0) replies coolly|replies, a faintly irritated smile appearing on her face}. “I just know that neither my dama nor I will be talking about it.”
*if baldspy != 6
*set baldspy 4
*goto baldmess
*label tamran_theology_2
“Well, then.” Tamran folds her arms. “Any philosopher would tell you Xthonos exists eternally outside time. It knows everything—the whole cosmos, all of history—in a single instant. Its attention isn’t divided, like ours. It’s complete: knowing Itself and knowing everything else.”
Compared to what Ecclesiast Zebed always proclaimed, that’s different enough to furrow your @{(skepreal > 50) brow, even though you don’t believe it|brow}. “I thought It knew only Its own perfection—that It couldn’t know anything imperfect, because having that knowledge would make It imperfect. So the Angels took care of everything else. And that They’re the ones who see consequences, and judge us.”
“Xthonos’s perfection includes total knowledge—of all cause and all consequence, of everything emanating from It.” The innkeeper’s daughter speaks with smooth conviction. “As for care, and judgment…the will of Xthonos isn’t a time-bound thing like ours. It’s constant, rather than moved. But Its constancy is in Goodness—in the overflow of a Compassion beyond passion, one that manifests as Angels and in all things beautiful in the world, Order and Chaos alike.”
*set tam_theo_3 true
*label tamxthon
*choice
*if (skepreal <= 50)
*hide_reuse #“Compassion in Xthonos Itself? Not just in Its Angels?” @{intro_rel I remember Olynna hinting at that possibility—and Zebed’s savage denial.|It sounds uncomfortably like a diminishment of the Unmoved Divine.}
“Where else would the Angels have learned it?” Tamran asks, smiling.
*goto xthongood
*if (skepreal > 50)
*hide_reuse #@{tam_theo_2 Compassion again. "Well, you know what I make of the idea that the cosmos|The idea is stomach-turningly counter to reality. “Truly? You think this world} has Compassion at the root.”
*if (tam_theo_2)
“I do,” Tamran says, warm and unmoved.
The anger and regret are both twinges, compared to what you felt last time you argued. “And now you’re claiming that not just the Angels, but Xthonos Itself, makes it thus.”
She nods.
*if not(tam_theo_2) and (skepreal > 50)
*gosub badworld
“The road to freedom doesn’t run through coercion,” Tamran insists.
*label xthongood
*set tamxtick +1
“Xthonos is utter Goodwill, an unwavering determination to bring all things into harmony with Itself and each other. More like a good leader, or a good parent, than the infinitely self-absorbed Absence so many Ecclesiasts end up teaching.”
The gap between those homely metaphors and how @{(int > 1) Canon describes Xthonos|you’ve always heard Xthonos described} is, indeed, howlingly wide.
*goto tamxthon
*hide_reuse #“@{(tamtick = 0) Wait—you|And you} think Xaos is part of the beauty of Xthonos?” I fight back a shudder at the memory of the Storms.
*set tamxtick +1
*set tam_theo_4 true
“Chaos isn’t the same as evil, ${alias}. If it were, how could so much of it emanate from perfection?”
“The further things emanate from Xthonos…” You respond with the @{(skepreal > 50) catechetical answer to see how she responds|catechism by reflex}.
“…the more corruptible they are? Yes. But corruption can take the form of Order, too. Trying to catch everything in rigid rules; demanding uniformity; fear of losing control; stifling and destroying difference.” Tamran’s lips press tight. “The cosmos was built for the play of order and chaos, ${alias}, and the beauty that comes from that—not for the destruction of one by the other.”
For a moment you remember @{(xsouvenir+1) the terrifying glories of distant Storms on the horizon|that pearly, glowing snowscape|that field of blue-white, singing plants|the sky full of cloud-cranes|the singing crystal lattice} in the Xaos-lands. “But in the stories of the Codex…”
“Xaos is quelled enough to allow Canon to emerge,” Tamran nods. “And that’s a true story. But can you believe it’s the end of the story? After we’ve seen some of the places Canon can bring us?”
*goto tamxthon
*hide_reuse #@{(int > 1) This goes against every orthodox priest and philosopher I’ve read.|I’m almost entirely sure that what she’s saying now is wildly heretical.} “$!{ird_oath}. Where are you getting these ideas?”
*set tamxtick +1
@{(int > 1) "Not from Canon, surely. Does|“Does} Ecclesiast Ulmey…? I’ve never heard anything like this preached from the Naos here.”
Tamran throws back her head and laughs. “Oh, blessed Angels—don’t blame nuncle Ulmey for any of this. He’d be trying to coax me back onto better-trod roads too, if I told all this to him.”
“And you said it wasn’t from your father. Have the Angels been talking to you, too?”
“They do, aye.” For a moment it looks like she’s going to say more, but she trails off @{(tam_rel = 0) as if remembering your untrustworthiness|with a smile}.
“So that’s where all these ideas about Xthonos are coming from? From what you @{(skepreal > 50) imagine the Angels are|think you hear the Angels} telling you?”
Tamran shrugs. “Not all of it. They don’t talk philosophy with me. That’s from books, and much work to put things into halfway adequate words.”
*goto tamxthon
*if (tamxtick > 1) and (((religion > 11) and (religion < 16)) or ((religion > 1) and (religion < 6)))
*hide_reuse #I try to listen to the Angelic Voice myself and discern whether there’s anything to what she’s saying.
*if tam_rel = 0
But all you can really sense is your own irritation at Tamran for condemning you after you spread word of Auche and Earith’s trysts.
*goto tamxthon
Something deep in you is resonating joyfully with what she’s saying. Either that’s the Angels’ voice, or a part of your mind that profoundly wants to believe.
*goto tamxthon
*if tamxtick > 2
#“You can’t just invent comforting stories about the cosmos @{(skepreal > 50) without any evidence|when it goes against what’s been written}, Tamran.”
*set tam_theo_react 3
She doesn’t bridle at your rebuke, but nor does she back down. “It’s experience, not invention, ${alias}. Keep interested, keep seeking after truth, and you might one day experience the same sort of thing. We’d understand each other better then.”
*goto theoarg
*if tamxtick > 2
#I’m far from convinced, but a little wistful. “It must be nice to believe that we’re known by the Source of All. That It cares.”
*set tam_theo_react 5
“Some folk find it more comforting to imagine a cosmos indifferent to what we do,” Tamran observes. “Or at least an Order that doesn’t have caring for each other built into its foundations. I’m glad you’re attracted to the opposite idea.” After a pause, she adds wryly, “Though it does apply to the people you don’t like as well. And keeping secrets is part of how we show care, here.”
*goto theoarg
*if tamxtick > 2
#The prospect of that infinite attention makes my skin crawl. “$!{ird_oath}. As if being judged by Angels isn’t burden enough?”
*set tam_theo_react 4
She smiles, a little sadly. “Being known by the All-Source is about care, not just judgment. But, authority wielded with care…that’s not something you’ve been given a lot of chances to experience, is it?”
You suppress a flinch and counter with, “Are you saying you think Telone Baldassare wields his authority with care?”
An exasperated chuckle bursts out of Tamran. “I’m not going to tell you anything about him, ${alias}. Give it up.”
*goto theoarg
*if (tamxtick > 2) and (skepreal <= 50)
#I have to clear my throat before managing, “I want to believe it. That at the bottom of all things, there’s love.”
*set tam_theo_react 10
Tamran stretches out a hand to touch your shoulder, and even through your kyrtle it feels like fire. “Then believe. Believe, and with the Angels’ help, live it out in your own little corner of the cosmos. Face injustice and malevolence with compassion. Act as if you truly believe that love is stronger than hate. Because that’s the truth.”
*set skepreal %-5
*goto theoarg
*if tamxtick > 0
#@{(skepreal < 51) Fascinating as it is, |}I’ve spent too much time on @{(skepreal > 50) these groundless speculations.|this.} “You’ll talk about the secrets of the cosmos, but not one Telone’s?”
She spreads her hands, smiling. “The cosmic ones are everyone’s to share.”
*goto theoarg
*label theoarg
*if baldspy = 6
*goto baldmess
By the time you @{(tam_theo_react = 10) walk unsteadily away from Tamran’s commission|finish arguing with Tamran}, the messenger has already taken a letter from the Telone and disappeared.
*set baldspy 5
*goto baldmess
15 Likes
These snippets are both supper interesting! The idea of Wiendish nobility within Shayard is a super interesting thread to come back around to, but what really jumped out to me was a hint of Xaotic sympathy from Tamran. Might be worth a unique line there for Goetes? Very cool to see some conversations we’ve had over the years finally bubbling up in text.
12 Likes
I read somewhere that Stormwright’s being shortened? Where is it planned to end now?
1 Like
It’s going to end before you get to the capital city – the move to urban Shayard is going to happen next game, now. Stormwright will have two chapters in the Xaos-lands and two chapters with you hiding out in rural Shayard (Irduin).
12 Likes
MFW ‘rural Shayard’ still feels more urban and cosmopolitan than Rim Square.
9 Likes
@Havenstone I just want to start by saying I do have a question I wanted to ask you in regard to Choice of Rebels but also to just say thank you for the amazing work. I have been reading Choice of Rebels since 2019 now I believe and the number of times I come back to it is testament to the fact that even today the story holds up as interesting, well written, and overall awesome. Please keep it up (No rush ofc) and thank you :D.
My question is in regard to the cover art of Uprising. When I was first reading back in 2019, I saw the cowering Helot and saw a greener or darker texture to his skin which led me to believe at the time, and for a while after, that the Helotry were a distinct ethnic group. That being said my question is do you think it would ever reasonably be possible for a Helot MC to try and unify helotry along a more unified cultural (Perhaps natioal) identity line by creating or enhancing an idea of like a Helot people? Much like how in South Africa, my proud nation, there was the Black Consciousness movement in which people of color said,”Im no longer a non-white person who is taken advantage of. I’m a proud black person.” Basiaclly a Helot saying,”Helots are not slaves. They are a people.” Idk something like that. I couldn’t word well sorry.
2 Likes
Which aspects of Irduin feel most like that to you, ooc?
Thanks for the encouraging word, @NxoMalik! The helots don’t have a distinct skin color, just a somewhat distinctive way of speaking the Koine, and their own folkways. That could still be the basis for an identity movement, but it wouldn’t be based on color.
2 Likes
Where the Keriatou are self-important yokels, the de Irde are tied into the politics of Mesniel and Grand Shayard. Where the merchant classes of Rim Square seem small and parochial, Strabaud entertains visitors all the way from Wiendrj. Where Zebed is a stern puritan, Ulmey teaches about the world. Where the Rim Square wineroom is cramped and heavily policed, the Chesnery is a place of free exchange. I could go on.
ig it’s just like, the general vibe. Irduin both feels like a part of the wider world and like it wants to be a part of the wider world (local racism aside), where Rim Square feels backwards and self-isolating.
12 Likes