To answer Sam’s question from a different thread, Choice of Rebels is currently about 221,000 words long. Not too epic yet.
@Dloc, it’s not a bug, but it is something I clearly need to represent differently, given that the way I’ve written it is giving lots of people the wrong idea. The next batch of revisions I intend to make to the structure of the raids should make it clearer that during the winter you’re living hand to mouth off whatever you steal.
@Golgot, I’ll try to structure those choices so you can’t just whiplash your nationalism up and down to suit the foreigners without consequences in Shayard, and vice versa. (Changing your answer to fit your audience will work a little bit, of course; everyone can get away with being a little hypocritical).
@Protagonist, well, there’s the ultra-nationalist fighters who’ll join your rebellion. And yeah, I’ve tried to lay the groundwork for helots to be nationalists too.
How long are you going to keep the demo up (or continue to update it, as we saw with the switch to Hegemony and some neat stuff added recently with the noble that may join near the end-- thanks!) in your estimation? Will you close it just before you come out with the actual game or will you start restricting access before then?
and
I played a bit more, is it intentional to be able to choose the option to hand out money to the helots many times? I’ll give out 80 to get the righteous epithet and then packets of 40 or fewer after that for however many of those sized packets I have since it’s more efficient for helots to like you that way than it is to give them a big one-time lump of cash. It just seems a bit broken to be able to get more massive helot support despite sacrificing less cash.
Why would Helots be pro Hegemony?
I’ve asked myself that question several times now and unless they buy the Hegemony’s propaganda wholesale there’s no reason for them to be, unless they would fear whatever lurks in the Xaos lands even more, but the only satisfying answer to that I could come up with when considering my own character is that it is ultimately better to live free than die a slave, at least in the system of the Hegemony since it is not even comparable Roman slavery where there was always the remote hope of regaining one’s freedom or even just advancement as a slave (to such roles as clerk, physician or tutor) to counterbalance any thoughts of violent rebellion.
In short even if should the rebellion win and the Hegemony and it’s wards fall we are destined to become Xaos monster chow, then so be it since in all likelehood most monsters of fantasy are more benevolent and certainly more benign then the Hegemony is.
I’m wondering if my MC could commit a massive poisoning murdering like a Greek tactic of poisoned enemy water source using scorpions and snake poison that could be great in small barracs stealth sabotage or kill some Alastor in his home. I’m not a fact of straight open warfare. Could I fight using shadow blackmail, my charisma and guerilla tactics?
@Havenstone
From an outsiders perspective the Hegemony seems monolithic, but in keeping the with Greek cultural influences are there major philosophical differences between the poleis in the Karagon homeland? If so is there a particular polis that is dominant?
I ask because considering the helot slave caste, I would assume it was the Sparta-like city-state that ended up establishing dominance among the Karagon. This would also explain their expansionist attitude. It would also stand to reason that there is a more egalitarian polis on the losing side of that internal conflict that might seek to capitalize on the instability you and your rebels are creating.
@Cascat I believe that when I asked something similar @Havenstone said that, if at any point there was a more Athens like “democratic” polity in Karagon, it has long ago lost the internal struggle for dominance and the Hegemony has systematically erased or repressed nearly all knowledge of any such tradition or philosophy, thus adding to the difficulty of trying to establish some sort of formal democratic system of governance.
It would seem that at best there might be court struggles of powerful families within Karagon itself but any magical Karagond family to replace the current line of Thaumatarchs would seem to have rather minimal political differences at best, and at least to my helot character would be equally unacceptable, even if they were either willing or desperate enough to offer some sort of alliance or power sharing deal later on.
@idont
Thanks for bring up that previous respose. I am more curious about the internal divisions of the Karagons and if any faction among them would exploit instability to fight some old battles. With or without coordination with our rebels. @Havenstone has mentioned using both Greece and Afghanistan as templates for this world. In both countries, both ancient and modern, there are deep cultural, ethics, and philosophical cleavages. In both nations insider factions have exploited internal threats often to the larger detriment of their country in order to pursue their own more narrow goals. I wonder if those specific attributes of the inspirational countries find there way into the story? Also I would just like to know how closely Karagon resembles its real world counterpart?
@WulfyK, no, that’s not something most helots think about. But as your rebellion grows, helot MCs will have the chance to decide whether they think they’ll do better under a nation or a multi-national empire. (e.g. Which is more easily dominated by the existing aristocratic caste?) And even a radical like idnlun may find there are some elements of the Hegemony that need preserving.
@Golgot, the demo will definitely stay up through Ch 3. I might take it down and do a more limited beta for the final chapter with people who’ve given useful feedback on this thread.
It was intentional that you could give money to helots until you saw cred/morale improve. (They don’t like me yet? Ok, give more) What I didn’t have originally was a threshold limiting the impact of big lump sums, and in the rebalancing I’ll look at whether there’s a better way to do that – probably by changing the overall morale/cred impact of donations (ie giving you fewer friends for your buck).
Mara, I might just have a poison opportunity coming up.
@cascat07, I’ve got vague ideas along those lines – but I’d be lying if I pretended I’ve got the Karagond factions and their roots in pre-imperial poleis clearly defined yet. So I can’t give a definite answer, except to say Karagon is not monolithic as it appears; more than that I may not be able to say for a little while yet. Great question, though.
@Havenstone Mara de Jade opinions: “I’m worried so my slaves would start thinking by themselves during the rebellion? There is something I could do to prevent it, create a some sort of inquisition with brainwashed fervent loyal members than teach my way and get rid of the nuisance scum trying think for themselves . Like they were actual people” X( Commoners!"
Now seriously, this game has so amazing lore, maybe too focused in helots to my taste. But create some sort of spy to infiltrate in the states, blackmail is the way to overthrow a government with zero bloodshed and anarchy. And the only way a rebellion like mine would work. I’m not fond of religion, I’m looking for a similar Hitler cult personality politic, not a real religion so the create your own mumbo jumbo is not for my character
“And even a radical like idnlun may find there are some elements of the Hegemony that need preserving.”
Meh, the only thing I’ve found so far that’s worth preserving is that men and women have mostly equal opportunities, though at present this just means that, unless you’re an Aristo, you’ve got equally limited opportunities.
Man that’s a truckload of kids. And while using them for stealth ninja tactics would be the way I would use them…moving them is going to be a pain. Like, whose got time to set up a day care while we’re out fighting the good fight. And it’s only going to put the whippersnappers in danger. I’ll see if I can do another run where I have less ankle biters… Also, I don’t think Brenden likes me, which is fine I’ve had it up to here with her tongue, she’s about to lose it.
I’m not exactly sure what tactic I’m using at the moment, but it’s mainly “Hey follow me, I suck a lot less then that guy. That guy is like totes a douche bag.” *Slaps Helot for clapping me on the back* “Back slave!” *glares before looking back at the group.* “FREE THE PEOPLE!!..Keep the kids at home though!”
@Golgot, here’s my current projected list of chapters. And Hera the Thaumatarch may be the most Alexandrian figure in the gameworld history. What aspects did you have in mind?
Mara: well, there will always be some limit on the extent to which the game allows Mara de Jade to pursue her vision. You aren’t in a great place to infiltrate Aekos (and infiltrating the Court of Shayard, which you can do next game, won’t actually help all that much). The Hegemonic system isn’t vulnerable to someone in your position using your preferred sneaky strategy; and writing that strategy would be a 90% different game.
That said, your definition of religion differs from mine. Hitler led a religious movement, as did Robespierre, both with plenty of mumbo jumbo. You’ll have the option to “start a religion” whether you’re devout or skeptical. See whether you’re happy with the options on offer, and whether some of them allow you to suppress independent thought as you long to.
@Havestone you are right with Robespiere his religion was as stupid and chaotic as a Monty pytton film. Sadly, he killed everyone that pronunces bad the new season and month names and didn’t practice the republic religions rites that includes all France because his ideas have zero sense. Hitler is not a new religion is more adapted and twisted one already existing, he was the new messiah in a Catholic sense, her mom was catholic.
But I like the fact of creating my mumbo jumbo always that games note, I’m totally fake it and don’t believe a comma of my speeches of myself being a new god in earth. Because if a game thinks iI’mbeing sincere in my new religion would drop my immersion and enjoyment below the seven circle of hell.
@idonotlikeusernames but this equality is a direct result of the Hegemony. Acoording to the world index, Over centuries of domination by Theurges, differences in average physical strength between the sexes have lost any political significance. Real power stems from Theurgy or priesthood. If your MC’s actions will cause a total collaps of society and disable theurgy by cutting the blood supply from harrowings, you have a good chance to create a society where advantages in physical strength will become the most improtant thing again, or it will allow Halassur to conquer the Hegemony and esteblish their sexist social order there.
@Havenstone, @posion_mara, I think religion is not the same as ideology or a cult of personality. I’d say Hitler’s Nazism was not a religion at all because it was based not upon religious revelations, but on pseudoscientific beliefs. Robespiere was fighting the esteblished catholic religion, I don’t know if and attempted to create some weird cult only as a replacement or if he sincerely believed in it.
Hera the Thaumatarch? Was that the first one? I guess I wasn’t too sure of what I was meaning by an Alexandrian figure, but I guess something that fits at least a couple of the bullet points generally associated with him. Very young ruler who accomplished tremendous things in the short time they had, got declared the child of some sort of divinity/master of the universe by other folks, conquered most of the known world/the largest empire around, had some kind of anachronistic-seeming idea about what they were going to do with the world when that happened (Alexander apparently wanted to move many easterners to the west and westerners to the east so as to promote unity and friendship between peoples as a goal at the end), that sort of thing. Will we hear anything more about Hera in the story or is there no space for that?
