That from the aristo pov, the helot mc has never been the beneficiary of any of it and unless we smash the caste system I don’t anticipate that changing in the future, unless perhaps you’d call a figurehead in a gilded cage (at best) “benefiting”.
1 Like
Okay then… Well death of the author-wise I think petrol is certainly one of the many commodities like that bust so are diamonds and cadmium.
@idonotlikeusernames The point is when your MC is in a position to smash the system he might have second thoughts when the full implications of that smashing are known…
1 Like
Not bloody likely, since the alternative is likely to mean a return to some form of slavery for him personally as a (former) helot cannot just insert himself at the head of it and he certainly isn’t going to let some “noble” “allies” do it.
Remember that my mc here can be very much and extremist who has absolutely no problems breaking a couple of eggs to make an omelette.
Also remember that his first and foremost goal is smashing the caste system and therefore the church of Xthonos even more then it is about just defeating the current thaumatarchy.
Or to rephrase as to my mc’s personal goals by now:
And
1 Like
I mean the blood magic specifically and they system that harvests it. If you don’t just outright flip it to “harvest all the non-helots out of revenge now they are the helots how do you like me now!?” Whatever the solution is that the new society is based on it will have to involve some form of unsavory compromise regarding blood magic or Halassur, the Unquiet Dead, the Abhumans, the Xaos storms, and whatever other evils lurk in the shadows will come and eat everyone anyway. Sort of an Imperium of Man situation…
1 Like
As always my mc probably hopes to make some form of blood-tax, combined with a sharp reduction to decadence work.
Well, in all likelihood, yes. My mc doesn’t plan on re-writing history just for the thrill or the sheer busywork of it, he does it suit his preferred narrative.
From a more personal pov, my mc isn’t inclined to treat his (former) oppressors with much “grace” because they have likewise never shown any to him (if they start to do it in game 2 and 3 my mc will inevitably interpret it as fear or weakness and in any case it will come too little too late) and he isn’t the “turn the other cheek type” any of them he keeps around will be for purely pragmatic reasons, not for “truth and reconcilliation”. For example as nasty as he may be to say Hector the reverse would be just as bad, or likely even worse.
1 Like
Circular logic in motion my friend MASS EFFECT 3 ending all over again. I kill organics to preserve them to create sintetics who kill them.
I was Wtf Edi and Joker are perfectly fine as couple. Edi has chosen kill herself is preferable to kill others like reapers. And my quarians and geths are friends and all is fine. THE ONLY BULLSHIT IS THE REAPERS… BANG BANG GHOST CHILD.
Here you supposed to kill a tirany and to that regard create same tirany over the old tirany… Will the circle close it safe , to all remain still A thousand of years later a young karagon oppressed by Shayard would rise again to stop the oppression… And use blood magic turning shayardenes into slavery… Another loop in the infinite loop that tie humanity. As in Mass effect galaxy story is still can’t move forward and going in circles because reapers tech and here blood magic.
MY SOLUTION STOP ALL MAGIC USE AT ALL. WHEN MARA WINS WOULD STOP ANY USAGE OF BLOOD MAGIC DESTROY ALL WARDS, All Harrowers. Except a small blood bank similar to ours and with no refining process. That would destroy half of population but WOULD BREAK THE CIRCLE FOREVER LET HUMANITY LIVE FREEDOM AND MOVE FORWARD
Except their will always be people who are willing to pick up the tool you reject and use it against you. The Japanese had their entire society turn against using firearms after they achieved internal stability, but the wolf at your gate doesn’t care about your moral high ground. If he can he is going to eat you. The literal wolves at your door are a perfect example of that in game. Use the tools at your disposal or die. Your choice.
5 Likes
Yep but that one’s easy own all the houses, rake in massive amounts of dough, make no compromises. Oh and the mc is a cute prince who personally suffers hardly at all, compared to the helot mc here.
1 Like
Second point would still stand, protagonist there personally suffers much less crap than the helot mc in this one.
@Havenstone There is a line break typo in Chapter 3 if the MC investigates the cave and has someone else bring the strangers in for questioning.
The cave exploration line break typo version looks like this:
I think the cause is a blank line between "if" statements in the source code.
#"$!{tell} me more about where you're going, and why."
"The Pan of Szeric is an intelligent man -- and profoundly, desperately mistaken in matters philosophical, in ways to which a lesser mind could never aspire." Horion gives a reproachful sniff. "Now this cocky Wiend has declared that if I'm to truly understand his stance, I should present myself in his district, where he shall give me an uncontestable 'proof' in support of his
*if knowwhy > 0
errors."
*if knowwhy < 1
errors. And your pass is not only the most direct route there -- it's also one where my enemies are most unlikely to find me."
*set knowwhy 1
He clearly expects you to ask about these enemies rather than persisting with your question.
It is a similar error to an earlier one so whatever the cause, I suspect it is the same.
I loved Fable III so I would consider comparisons with Fable III a compliment and I am still looking forward to Choice of Rebels more than ever. My interpretation of the comparison would be that it takes a special individual to pull off necessary great changes with minimal cost and my MCs intend to attempt precisely that.
That is a particularly interesting example to me considering that Japan had some of the most advanced firearms in the world at that time before abandoning their use. I would say it was not so much because of internal stability as because Japan was not under threat of invasion and because rulers were well aware of the power of those weapons to upend the social order considering that some of the rulers had risen from the lowest positions in society. The sword hunts to take blades away from peasants in Japan were another demonstration of the concept.
My Int 2 MC does intend to train as many rebels as possible in wisardry but would retain control of the supply of aetherial blood or whatever replaces it. I think for MCs to try to overthrow the Hegemony (which was built by and runs with Theurgy) without wisardry or as the only wisard (an option for Int 2 MCs) is bad roleplaying and the odds of victory for the second are far worse than the rebellion’s odds could have been after training rebel wisards but the odds of victory for the first are effectively zero. It is also far too early for players to complain about the horrors of “blood magic” considering that even Int 2 MC wisards know very little about whether or not there is a better way of doing things. Does anyone seriously believe the Hegemony has made much if any effort to find a way of doing things that treats Helots better?
After the final battle in Chapter 4, if the children are still around and if the band is in full retreat then there can be a scene where a Phalangite complains to a Theurge about the order to make sure the children are caught so they can be Harrowed. The dialogue suggests some viewed Harrowing children as the reason for war with Halassur. This may be an attempt to portray something worse than the Hegemony, but my MCs would suspect that the only reason the Hegemony does not regularly Harrow children is because the Hegemony thinks it can get more aetherial blood out of adults.
4 Likes
Actually I do think the Hegemony probably internally has wrestled many times with their system that even its proponents seem to see problems with (the possible exception of the Theruges we fight themselves). Their problem is the society is founded on dehumanizing the helots and any attempt to reverse that makes one question the whole thing. In the calculation of those in power the dangers external to the Hegemony are far more horrific and justify the ones going on inside of it. Hopefully that calculus is in err but ultimately the equation requires therugy in some quantity to sum to something greater than zero.
5 Likes
I can’t help but have the impression that Elery’s brother might surpass an INT2 MC who doesn’t focus on the one stat on the next games. This is all expeculation on my part, though. But it would be interesting, to have this really strong Theurge in our army who we might be at odds with all the time.
1 Like
Perry can certainly attest to that…
3 Likes
Code
*if kidmess and (inkids > 6)
*if inkids > 14
Eleven
*set inkids -11
*set followers -11
*set kidsdead -11
*set dead -11
*set morale -25
*if inkids < 15
Four
*set inkids -4
*set followers -4
*set kidsdead -4
*set dead -4
*set morale -14
This should be +dead and +kidsdead instead of minus.
Edit:
Code
*if (cred_h > 250)
Earnn nods intently. "They've been doing everything they can to help, ${addressu}. Some of them say they're going to foul the food for the fighters their masters have hired to hunt us, to keep them sick in the Rim.
*set aristroops -46
The number is subtracted from the aristroops, but not from the alltroops or allmain.
2 Likes
This game is so nice and well-written. Breden terrifies me a little, though. He’s fishy enough that I don’t quite trust him, but there’s just enough room for doubt and he’s useful enough that I don’t want to throw him out. Besides, in case he is the traitor, I want him where I can see him.
2 Likes
They all are, if they’re any good. A fantasy world has to work according to its own internal logic, not a logic ported across wholesale from a real-world allegorical equivalent. Blood isn’t identical to oil; a commodity dug out of the ground is self-evidently different from one extracted from the bodies of slaves.
Nor did I start writing this story thinking, “Let’s make it about climate change.” But as I started developing the magic system of my evil exploitative empire, and realized I was writing an industrialized economy that relies on a commodity that kills people, and kills poor people more than rich people… the metaphor pretty much wrote itself, and I’m happy to run with it as far as it goes.
The element of the oil economy that I’m most interested in is the profound difficulty of changing it to something that doesn’t do the same damage; and that has to apply to the Karagond blood economy, too. If it could be solved as simply as Hegemony-wide blood drives, the only reason for the current system to persist would be pure demonic malice, which would make for a much less interesting rebellion. (It may be worth repeating again what I’ve said a couple times upthread: the theory that it’s pain/torture/terror of the victim which gives aetherial blood its power is wrong. That would take the metaphor in a direction which I think is less true to the real world challenges of e.g. the slave economy or the oil economy.)
As is generally the case in dystopian fantasy, the metaphor has an element of hyperbole; and I agree that it applies broadly to other commodities/economic processes too. That said, I don’t think there’s a non-fossil fuel commodity that plays quite the same fundamental role in so many areas of everyday life – agriculture, manufacturing, trade and transport, communications.
Well, for what it’s worth, I’ll be naming the masses; as in our own world, the benefits of industrialization will become clearer when you get out of the periphery. You’ll meet the people who will be hurt and killed by any attempt to delink the Karagond economy from blood magic. Incidentally, Princess Mononoke is one of my favorite stories about the tragedy of industrialization because it emphasizes the benefits – in particular, the lepers and prostitutes who can have power in the new world that they never could in the old.
Anyway, I can appreciate that it’s a well worn metaphor, but it’s one I think still has a lot of power and truth to it, so I don’t mind the eye-rolls from people who’ve read it a hundred times already. 
It’s true that the choice between continuing to Harrow people and allowing thousands to starve or die in war is unlikely to be entirely escapable. In the current game, that choice between killing and allowing to die is already there, on a smaller scale. (Mara is of course the one who most cheerfully chooses “allowing to die” by not stopping the initial Harrowing.)
For those who see a clear moral distinction between what you do and what you allow to happen, there’ll be no question of forced genocide. For those who think it’s muddier, the choices will be harder. But as I said to @Laguz in the PM they quoted, I think that choice is one which we face all the time (albeit in a less stark form) in various systems that underpin modern prosperity – so I intend to include it in the game.
And on that cheery note, here’s to 2017, the year when this game finally hits the app stores…
20 Likes
Oh, Mara knows it. That’s why for she is clear half of population at least has to die. The population has grown far far beyond capacity of hearth to feed them there is a massive over population. The only thing that keep masses alive is Harrowing, the same chain that keeping us tie is what keeping us alive. It is a drug like the spice in Dune universe. Mara similarly to Leto jr Atraides the worm emperor Mara has to SHUT DOWN THE ROTTEN CIRCLE and for that sadly death is needed. When she stops all harrowing and wards all flying cities will fall they will be famines and chaos for a while. But survivors will be free from the blood circle and development a more sustainable technology. So Mara is in some way idealist … In a rather ruthless way.
But what I tried to say is Please DON’T FORCE ALL DAMN INTELLECTUAL PEOPLE TO GENOCIDE PEOPLE MAYAN STYLE TO WIN. USING MAGIC.ok you has decided force a person to use magic based only in his intelligence test. Even if that person could like Mara force other guy to use it in their name. But please don’t make if you are intelligent only way survive is through magic abuse and launching spellz and eating mayan hearts. That’s cheap
1 Like
Okay.
(+20 chars)
3 Likes
If is not okay, you will hear my roar in like ten years lol, when the final come… 
Happy New Year Havie and all Rebellion fellowship
1 Like
Which of course (hopefully) implies there may be better methods to harvest it then Harrowing. Even the blood drives can hopefully still work to maintain society and industry at reasonable levels, provided we cut blood-guzzlers like the wards, flying cities, plektoi and most decadent “noble” luxury spending. While, like Mara, R&D focuses on finding alternative solutions.
If you’re using oil as the closest analogy then some countries, though obviously not the US can or could in theory already be self-sufficient just by using renewable energy sources.
1 Like