Choice of Rebels Part 1 WIP thread

Why would you care about what the Hegemony does when you can ride your best friend who are also a lion into battle?

Homestly, now? Up until this point I think the only ones mentioned are horse-plektoi, dog-plektoi and human-plektoi, in-use. I think.

I was trying to not become entwined in the horse utility discussion, so I apologize I missed that. I saw your outlandish uniform picture though

which I’ll comment on now:

In @Havenstone’s world, the theory of warfare and the application of the art of war has already surpassed the “Early Industrial” phase of Earth warfare with regards to the deployment of men. I seriously doubt any non-utilitarian military uniform, regardless if conceptualized by noble or helot, would make it out into the field. If anything, the modern day view is already accepted as fact.

The nobility would attempt to preserve their perceived superiority in methods other then what you fear - even in something as simple as uniform design.

Jerry Pournelle wrote a book where late medieval society was introduced to modern conceptualization of warfare and if you have not yet read him, I’d suggest it. He writes very authoritatively on the impact of class and its prerogatives in such a world.

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To make a Plektos, you have to have not only a boatload of blood but a profound and detailed understanding of the teloi that you’re trying to change. Not just any Theurge can create viable, living Plektoi; it takes biological specialists, veterinary surgeons, inheritors of a long tradition of failed experimentation who learn their craft from master Plektasts.

The difficulty in spending enough time tweaking wild animals and (even more so) doing the necessary breeding experiments to gain your insights is the reason Plektosis is only really done with tamed animals (with a bit of superficial wild boar telos threaded back into the Halassurq war-pigs at the end to increase aggression).

Working with truly wild animals is more of an Abhuman thing, and the way they get their insights is considered an abomination by the Hegemony. :slight_smile:

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While the uniforms of the Napoleonic era were certainly majority frippery they also did have some utilitarian purpose. Distinctive uniforms helped soldiers identify side, unit, and section in the chaos of battle and in the powder-smoke. The shako and the variety of adornments stop it made the soldiers look taller and closer in an attempt to encourage the enemy to waste their volley early and miss high.

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All very true - I was not trying to dismiss their place in our history, only to suggest uniforms would not follow the same trajectory on @Havenstone’s world as ours.

We already discussed how gunpowder would not be used in his world as opposed to our history - its not the same situation as @Cataphrak’s world where all those utility factors would come into play .

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I suspect there may still be more in common with the era than modern camouflage given the tech available. The tactics I think boil down to “protect the theruges and let them do their thing.” That lends itself to the linear employment of troops on the surface since target acquisition is limited to the range of a theruge’s eyeballs.

Perhaps more “Roman Legiony” but not in the tradition of concealment I don’t think.

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I agree, given how distinctive and “decadent” even the garb of a country noble such as Simon is described as, I think the Hegemony’s nobles are rather likely to have a fondness for “bling of war” and needlessly* fancy uniforms.

*(well @cascat07 just described what practical use they might have, but my former helot and Com 0 mc is most likely to be oblivious to that and more likely just to see their astronomical cost) .

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“Bling of war,” I’m using that from now on just to let you know!

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Just as asymmetrical tactics and strategies were deployed successfully in the Napoleonic era, so too was it deployed during the various Roman eras as well. Ironically, Hispania originated such success in the time of Hannibal as it did in the time of Napoleon.

I still think you downplay such efforts and assign too much weight the superiority of those facing us.

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That’s okay, I got it from tvtropes. Funny story I actually started using the old warfare and battle trope sections there regularly because of the discussion you and @Cataphrak and @Studwick used to have over on the “Guns of Infinity” thread and I may have occasionally felt the need to catch up quickly.

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State based armies are built around defeating thier peer and near peer competitors. Asymmetrical tactics are not the “preferred” method to make war since it is inherently defensive and usually tied to a very specific set of conditions on the the "human terrain.

The reason this rebellion stands a snowballs chance is that the Hegemony is focused on defeating Halussar and sees them as the larger threat compared to the occasional backwater brush war that may actually be engineered to feed the machine for all we know at this point.

Based on context so far I assume the Hegemony’s regulars are primarily designed to win in open battle with their rivals and outfits like Hector’s are left to deal with bandits and the like.

We are probably still not going to get off without a bloody nose fighting the Archon’s personal guard even with all the terrain and asymetric advantages we can muster. The MC is basically relying on the Hegemony’s hubris to a degree.

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Not exactly, I still think the reason our rebellion stands a chance is a complex interplay of factors, of which the low level conflict with Halassur is only one (small) part. Even if they are still serious about conquering Halssur, it’s evidently not a top-priority right now.

@Havenstone

By “abomination” do you mean “this undermines our cultural narrative and threatens our power” or “this is actually morally reprehensible”? Because I struggle to think of something even the Karagonds would balk at.

The furry federation doesn’t seem all that bad considering they didn’t just kill our tree man friend out of hand, but who knows…

Please elaborate to my plebian mind, I am curious and know nothing of animals, especially oxen, except that they are delicious medium rare

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Nevertheless,

Just as the Romans were stymied for decades in Hispania and permanently turned aside in Germanica; asymmetrical will allow us to survive and even thrive until conditions do turn favorable, or change the dynamic under which we fight. I am not saying there won’t be battles, even decisive battles during the early campaign.

Yet Arminius proved long before the Battle of Dien Bien Phu that such tactics and strategies do work. (see Battle of the Teutoburg Forest)

The key to long term success is to avoid the response of Germanicus and his subsequent campaigning in the Germanic forests.

The analogy between Arminius and us is very close when all is said and done.

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Most likely this, which is why my mc will probably like it. Abhuman animal trainers welcome, I’d say. :smile:

The list of issues where the Hegemony would believe the former but not the latter is short, approaching zero.

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Oxen are stronger but slower by far in drawing and ploughing. Horses with a horse collar are not only faster, but stronger; Horses work roughly 50% faster than oxen, and shoed, collared and ploughing can triple the work an ox would have completed.

Not to mention that oxen are docile, but not as sensitive to commands. Not that people haven’t ridden oxen into battle or for pack, but it’s usually where horses are expensive or rare.

lmao. I should have expected nothing less from u, sneaks

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Well if you don’t like the awesome Ox as an alternative, maybe we can start (or increase) the use of Elephants, as they really can do everything a horse is useful for and then some.

As far as I recall it’s possible to shoe oxen too.

It doesn’t really help the oxen in the same way, as they’re so slow.

Same with elephants.

Well, slow and steady usually wins the race in the end. :wink:

But elephants are awesome tho. They’re so awesome that even my mc couldn’t refuse elephant units the same way he tends to dismiss horse cavalry.