I stand educated.
7 Likes
I asked an English lit friend about the AI-writing feel, and she said it’s likely due to the “hardboiled” prose style in the game. Hardboiled meaning noir or cyberpunk adjacent styles like Chandler or Gibson. I will not be changing the prose style.
2 Likes
I will be moving this to open beta on October 1st, after I clean up some issues from some playtesters.
2 Likes
Open beta is here!
Please play the game and leave your valuable feedback directly in the thread.
2 Likes
Reminder that there are 19 more days of beta testing left! If you post feedback here, you will receive “likes” which will increase your forum karma. It will also help to improve the game.
3 Likes
Just a reminder to keep the feedback rolling in! I can barely keep up with the deluge but I will read every feedback.
2 Likes
Just wanted to say that I have really enjoyed it so far, and that this has been a wonderful read! I’ll give my thoughts in way more detail once I’m fully finished (have to stop for today but I just finished the fight in chapter 8 so I assume I’m close-ish to the end), but a few quick notes:
- I picked mineral water
- The mime fight was my favorite
- You do a wonderful job of giving setting descriptions and I enjoy the prose
- I like Katie, she’s very cute
Again I’ll share more of my thoughts and give some more feedback once I’m fully done, but one piece of actionable feedback I could give right now would be to maybe make the code viewable on CoGdemos. It would make catching bugs/giving feedback on stat progression and stuff a bit easier.
3 Likes
Thank you! The game is self-hosted, but I’ve uploaded the code here.
2 Likes
Okay, so to start off, here were my final stats:
Stats
Power 37
Technique 46
Toughness 27
Mental 38
Energy 100
Boxing insights unspent 0
Boxing insights spent 5
Analysis 27
Composure 10
Empathy 12
Jab level 2
Flurry level 0
Combo level 0
Block level 0
Dodge level 1
Counter level 2
Eric friendship 6
Eric romance 0
Eric harmony 50
Eric partner false
Eric subplot scene 4
Katie friendship 27
Katie romance 7
Katie masking 53
Katie partner true
Katie subplot scene 7
Danny friendship 3
Danny investigation success false
Danny subplot scene 1
Chloe friendship 16
Chloe romance 3
Chloe trauma 0
Chloe acceptance 53
Chloe partner true
Chloe subplot scene 7
First match result: win
Second match result: win
Third match result: win
Fourth match result: win
Fifth match result: win
Sixth match result: win
Seventh match result: win
Eighth match result: win
I focused on mental and technique to start with, since I wanted to roleplay a more outboxer-ish style. Once I got those up to exceptional, I started training power and toughness to get them up to the same level. I used the special training method from Katie once just to test it out, but I never really did any of the special training again since it seemed better to just focus on one thing at a time.
I started by training twice, then alternated between training and resting until the very end, where I just rested up to full. That means that, aside from my final fight, I fought everyone at 80-ish energy. (There was a period where I got to 75% energy, not sure how)
Anyways, yeah, I really liked it and I have a lot to say! I’ll break this down into three parts so it’s hopefully not so overwhelming:
Things I liked
The fights:
They felt super dynamic! I didn’t always have the tools required to deal with everything (until the end, anyways) so I had to occasionally roll with the punches. I got hit, I hit people, and eventually I landed a good counter or enough jabs that I came out on top.
I won all my fights. I don’t know if that’s a good or bad thing, but I will say that I didn’t feel like it mattered… and that’s perfectly fine. It’s clear that winning was never the point, and my ego wouldn’t have been bruised had things gone another way.
Of all the fights, the Katie fight felt the most challenging to me. I really did not know how to approach it at all, and I felt lucky when I managed to win. I didn’t have the option to counter yet, so I relied on my jab and that seemed to work.
I found the Bob Chow fight to be the easiest, but that makes sense since by the end MC is a decently seasoned fighter and Bob is a beginner. I think it was fitting for a last fight in a game where there is no final boss.
The setting descriptions:
I do think some people may actually take issue with this, because the descriptions are very vivid and numerous, and some may feel it’s too much. I personally really enjoyed the way the city is described, though, and I could tell there was a lot of thought and care poured into it.
I do not know much about Hong Kong, admittedly, but I got the impression that this was written by someone who loves the city dearly.
The food:
The way the food was described made me very, very hungry. How dare you.
The ending:
It was satisfying, and also bittersweet.
There was no big boss, no final challenge, no great big wall to struggle and claw and fight to get over. It was just another fight, and then it was done.
We sit and look out at the skyline, and life moves on. The city keeps moving. Maybe we’ll get another fight, or maybe not. It doesn’t matter either way, and I think there’s something beautiful in that.
I appreciated the epilogue as well. It was nice to see how everyone was doing, how the relationships continued, and the ways things both changed and stayed the same.
The little things:
I like that we can choose our reason for fighting. I like that none of the reasons are especially important. I’m not fighting for the sake of the world, I’m fighting because it’s something to do, or because I want to push myself, or maybe I don’t really know? Maybe there’s no reason? It’s uncomplicated, and I think that’s nice.
I appreciate that the system you set up actually takes resting into account. It’s a huge part of any kind of physical training, and a lot of times it gets kind of glossed over. This game made it very clear that resting at the right time is one of the most important aspects of training. Pretty cool!
I like that the “gluttonous rice chicken” that we win from the first fight disappears from the trophy list at some point; presumably because we ate it.
I like that we can make little choices that don’t matter. Mineral water? Banquet dinner? Our opinions don’t really change anything, but it made me smile, and that’s what’s important.
I like that the best tool we have in a fight is very often the jab, even against someone who can shoot fireballs. Nothing beats a good jab
Things I didn't like
The sex scenes:
They aren’t sex scenes so much as they are the lead up to them, followed by a cut to the next day. Which is absolutely fine. This game doesn’t need graphic sex at all.
But what is there is… rather stiff. I kind of got the impression that writing them was maybe a bit uncomfortable, or that maybe they were something added out of a sense of obligation because that feels like the most natural conclusion to the character’s romance. And that’s fine if that’s the case! But I would maybe look into giving the scenes some touch-ups.
I read both Katie and Chloe’s stories to completion, and romanced them both. Between the two of them, Katie’s sex scene felt the most stiff–maybe because there wasn’t really anything to do? We just go back to her room and “the clothes come off” and then that’s it. At least with Chloe I could choose if I wanted to get stepped on before the fade to black.
The way poly relationships are handled:
Or, rather, the way they aren’t.
Again, I did both Katie and Chloe’s romances. There’s a brief mention during the epilogue that suggests Chloe and Katie are aware of each other, and that’s great, but… well, it would have been nice to be able to bring it up at some point during the game.
For example, in my playthrough I was dating Katie first. When Chloe asks me out as well, it would have been nice to be able to say something along the lines of: “Yes, but I’m already dating someone, would that bother you?” or if I wasn’t dating Katie yet “Yes, but I’m not a one person kind of girl. Is that alright?”
There are probably better ways of wording it, but I’m sure you get the idea. Just something quick when a relationship starts that makes it clear that MC is non-monogamous, so that way it doesn’t feel like cheating.
General thoughts and feelings
The pacing:
We go for walks, we train, we work, we fight, maybe we hang out with someone, and then we do it all again. Time passes both slowly and quickly, and I personally don’t mind that.
One thing I will say is that I wish I had more time to spend with the characters. I understand why it is the way that it is, but it would have been nice to be able to take that walk during the Hungry Ghost Festival with more than just one person.
The romance:
It’s not the main focus of the game, but it is there, and I think it’s done alright.
In my opinion Katie’s romance felt more natural than Chloe’s (aside from the sex scenes) and I think there are a couple reasons for that.
There was the inherent intimacy of helping her with her thesis, for one, but also she was the one I invited on the walk during the Ghost Festival, and I met her pretty early into the story. Basically, I just had more time with her, and by the time the Hungry Ghost festival happened, I had only just met Chloe. It didn’t feel like inviting Chloe over Katie would make much sense; we weren’t especially close, and there was no way for us to be at that point.
Also, with Chloe… the only romantic thing I can recall doing before the confession was offering to hold her hand when she walked me back to the MTR. Add in the fact that she was the last romanceable character to be introduced, it makes sense that things maybe felt a bit rushed with her.
I understand why only one person could be invited on a walk during the Hungry Ghost Festival, but maybe an extra event of some kind at a later date would help? I remember there was a fortnight where everyone was busy, so I had no choice but to skip the interactions. Maybe there’s room there for something extra?
The characters:
I enjoyed the varied cast! Except Janice. We earned that promotion damn it!
I wish I could have taken Camile up on their offer of dinner. At least, that’s what I think they were offering? They’re a mime, it’s hard to tell. Either way, they were my favourite fight and I wish I could have gotten to know them more.
The prose:
I enjoyed it! For the most part. I think where it shines the most is during the fights; I had no issues clearly visualizing what was supposed to be happening.
It does get stiff at some points, especially when in relation to the aforementioned sex scenes, but otherwise it’s consistent and efficient. It gets the job done.
I saw an earlier comment mention that it reads like AI, and to be clear, I do not feel that’s the case. There are choppy, quick sentences, and you occasionally use emdashes and semicolons. Sure. Same with every other writer ever. But AI can’t write a coherent, consistent story on this scale, let alone one that contains a fight with a mime that puppeteers a giant (magic?) chicken.
Final thoughts; this is a really good game. I strongly feel that the point of fiction is to make people feel something. For me, at least, strong emotions are the point.
This made me feel. I felt excited when I was lined up for another fight, I felt happy when Katie was able to successfully argue her thesis, and I felt melancholy when I had to break the news to Bob that his first fight might have been his last.
I think you’ve written something really special. Thanks for sharing it!
Also, a couple small extra things that I almost forgot about but probably should mention:
Small extra things
Sometimes when a character’s dialogue is broken up by narration, you’ll start the continuation of that dialogue on a new line. Like this:
In this screenshot, all of the dialogue is from MC. They’re asking Eric if Master Cheng is his Sifu. But the way it reads, it makes me think that MC is finished speaking after just saying “Yeah”, and then Eric replies by asking MC if Master Cheng is MC’s Sifu–which upon reading the next line becomes clear wasn’t the intention.
Basically, there shouldn’t be a line break unless the character is done all of their dialogue. So it should be all on one line, like this:
“Yeah,” you say. At the far end of the room, a timer beeps. “Is Master Cheng your sifu?”
You probably know this already, since there are plenty of examples of you getting it right, but it does happen a number of times throughout the story. It will probably be brought up during the editing phase on HG’s part but I figured I’d mention it anyway.
Also:
I wanted to highlight this choice specifically because it was the one I felt best illustrated a small problem I have, which is that I’d really like to know what my thoughts on turtle jelly are before I choose this option, you know? For all I know the next line could be “I hate turtle jelly and you suck for liking it!”
Of course that’s not what actually happens, but there’s a bit of stress when picking the option because I feel like I don’t know what to expect. There are a few times where this happens; where I’m not exactly sure what my character’s response will be when I pick an option. That might just be me, though.
4 Likes
Amazing, thank you! I’ve received several requests for the multiple-partner to be clear, and I think I’ll make the request different if you already have a partner.
Also, you got me, I’ve never written sex scenes before! Katie’s scene is supposed to show that she is awkward and stiff, but the writing isn’t supposed to be awkward and stiff, lol. Hmm. Wonder if I can do anything about this.
One question: was the bonus content notification clear enough? There’s a notification after the epilogue, but some people are saying they don’t see it. Did you try any of the bonus content?
The other suggestions are well taken and relatively easy to fix. I’ll fix them soon!
1 Like
It was pretty clear to me, but I’m sure making it even more so wouldn’t hurt.
I did play through the bonus content! The “final boss” fight was pretty fun and I thought it was funny that even in that scenario we’re still working with Janet. It also was fun to see a bit more how our journey started! Humble beginnings, humble endings.
That does remind me of another thing I thought of while playing, though, which is that it might have been nice to have a glossary of terms to refer to during the game, rather than just as bonus content. Like, from the stats menu or something. Just something quick to call on when I’m not quite familiar with a term.
That said, I was able to figure most things out through context just fine anyways, so it wasn’t a big deal either way.
Again, thanks for the story! I really enjoyed it.
2 Likes
Hello. I finished one playthrough of the game, and here are some notes I took.
UI
The starting text feels a bit cluttered without spacing (playing on full UHD monitor, PC, so might be different on mobile)
Combined pronoun and name selection: might be worth having just one ‘another name’ option and then opting to select gender afterwards, instead of having three separate copies.
I would prefer an option to re-select a name in case the player types it wrong.
‘Toughness’ is a very vague term for a stat. I thought ‘endurance’ or ‘stamina’ was much more intuitive, which was how you described it in the training part as well.
Gameplay
I often wanted to know how much energy ‘Rest and Recover’ actually recovers, and how many training sessions I had left until the next fight.
(It does become more obvious after a few fights.)
Stat screen is clean, well-structured and hilarious, especially with the Prizes and Rewards tab.
Normally character interactions being three different types of observing someone would be an issue, but here it fits the MC pretty well.
The entire fighting sequence is mechanically solid, and I have zero notes on that. I managed to beat 6 out of 8, and it wasn’t hard to infer what was happening, and what I needed to do.
I assumed the sex scenes would be more explicit, since you included an option to skip them entirely. They were still very sweet.
Narrative
The fantastical fighting elements seemed to clash with the rest of the story, which is very slice-of-life. Writing a thesis, stopping your brother from overworking, working out things with your instructor, working in an office. All very relatable, everyday things.
The story started with very vivid descriptions of run-down gyms in HK, so I was surprised when the opponent in the first fight threw a hadouken. I assumed from the prose that the game was going to be a gritty MMA story.
The arcade fighting games, as I understand it, usually have crazy storylines with global tournaments and supervillains, which make the fictional fighting seem plausible.
The story also follows a steady line of tension instead of a 4-section narrative arc. The whole thing with inciting incidents, rising tension, midpoint tragedy, climax, and quick ending.
This structure exists in the individual character storylines but not the main game, which seems to me like a huge missed opportunity. The MC is already fighting when the story starts, so it could have been a process of discovering an underground fighting ring.
Overall, it was a very enjoyable read, and I focused mostly on areas where it could be improved to keep it short. I hope you don’t take the notes as a negative review.
Congratulations on finishing the writing process, and good luck on the beta!
Final stats
The game took about 2+ hours to complete. (I am a pretty fast reader)
Power 28
Technique 47
Toughness 35
Mental 39
Energy 80
Boxing insights unspent 0
Boxing insights spent 5
Analysis 13
Composure 17
Empathy 18
Jab level 2
Flurry level 0
Combo level 1
Block level 0
Dodge level 0
Counter level 2
Eric friendship 6
Eric romance 0
Eric harmony 50
Eric partner false
Eric subplot scene 4
Katie friendship 27
Katie romance 9
Katie masking 44
Katie partner true
Katie subplot scene 7
Danny friendship 3
Danny investigation success false
Danny subplot scene 1
Chloe friendship 17
Chloe romance 4
Chloe trauma 0
Chloe acceptance 58
Chloe partner true
Chloe subplot scene 7
First match result: loss
Second match result: win
Third match result: win
Fourth match result: win
Fifth match result: win
Sixth match result: win
Seventh match result: loss
Eighth match result: win
3 Likes
Thanks for your feedback. I agree, I think “endurance” is better, but it might be a lot of replacement to do now. I might still do it…
I’ve thought a lot about whether to show the energy recovery and energy use of the different actions. I still don’t know. In an early build I showed the stat changes, and it made it a bit gamified-looking. I’ll think more about this. (Edit: hmm, I could actually add +30 energy to the rest option only, and not show any stat changes for the others.)
The main game not having a narrative arc is intentional! Thematic spoilers: The theme is that the circuit dies with a whimper instead of a bang, through impersonal forces that the protagonist can’t change. That’s kind of a downer, so the character storylines are meant to ameliorate that by providing a more satisfying closure. I don’t know how successful it is, though.
2 Likes
I’ve uploaded a new version with all of these changes:
- Poly relationships now have different text
- Name/gender selection is simplified and you can re-enter your name
- Toughness name is kept, but UI improved
- Better training UI, showing number of trainings remaining before the next fight
- Better UI if no one is available for a visit
- Dialogue spacing should now be correct everywhere
- Revamped almost all dialogue choices to be clearer what the PC is going to say
- A few pronoun and capitalization fixes
- Display energy gain from resting
- Very slightly increased fight difficulty for Chloe and Camille
It’s here. It should be compatible with previous saves, I think.
6 Likes
I am trying to test the game but I get an error saying: Couldn’t load scene ‘ending’
The file doesn’t exist.
There might be an older version of the game in your computer’s cache. If that happens, go here, click “Menu”, “restart the game”. Then try playing the latest version. Sorry about this!
One more week until beta testing concludes!
2 Likes
Ok, final playthrough.
Power 21
Technique 47
Toughness 31
Mental 44
Energy 70
Boxing insights unspent 0
Boxing insights spent 6
Analysis 28
Composure 6
Empathy 11
Jab level 2
Flurry level 0
Combo level 0
Block level 1
Dodge level 1
Counter level 2
Eric friendship 18
Eric romance 0
Eric harmony 44
Eric partner false
Eric subplot scene 7
Katie friendship 2
Katie romance 0
Katie masking 50
Katie partner false
Katie subplot scene 2
Danny friendship 8
Danny investigation success false
Danny subplot scene 4
Chloe friendship 16
Chloe romance 2
Chloe trauma 0
Chloe acceptance 53
Chloe partner true
Chloe subplot scene 7
First match result: win
Second match result: win
Third match result: win
Fourth match result: win
Fifth match result: win
Sixth match result: loss
Seventh match result: win
Eighth match result: win
Chloe rolls her eyes and sighs with her whole body. You almost hear an “ugh” come out with it. “Boring! You know what people pay to see.” She flicks her fingers at Eric’s fists with a small laugh. “The flames. The crackle. The stuff that makes you special. Pearl River Cup is coming up, Eric. Nobody’s packing the stands to watch basic combos.”
I might have missed something, but did the narrative introduce her as Chloe before mentioning her name?
“Thanks for showing up, by the way. Most people…” She trails off. “Anyway. Next time?”
#“Next time.”
#“I don’t think I’ll come back.”
Probably need a more neutral option, where you are open to coming back, but can’t promise it.
Note: a lot of the ‘social’ chapters like chap 4 have only two choices. Not a rule, but HG might recommend you aim for at least three.
Power: 19 (21) | Technique: 36 (40) | Toughness: 28 (31) | Mental: 37 (41) | Energy: 80% Eric’s helping Master Cheng while continuing to improve his own craft. You’ve settled into a comfortable rhythm with him: training with him at Eastside, walks in the hills, sometimes just hanging out at the Tai Po centre.
The paragraph should begin on a new line from the stats. Might want to check thoughout the game for this.
I attempted to romance Eric again, and focused super hard on him this time. I managed to get an accept from him in chap 4, but I still couldn’t unlock his final romance, and ended up romancing Chloe instead when she threw me a romance lifeline towards the end of the game with the choice of a kiss. I’m not sure if Eric supposed to be tougher. 
Chloe’s romance scene was solidly written, but I still think I prefer Katie’s.
Anyway, this will probably be my last playthrough, but good luck.
2 Likes
Oh, wow, the Eric romance difficulty is not intentional. I’ll rehaul that part to make it much easier. Thank you, I wouldn’t have caught this myself.
Ugh, the display bug crept in again after I made some other changes! I’ll fix this one too, lol.
I’ll add a Katie option too, that makes sense. Those two options are too abrupt.
Great feedback!
1 Like