Allusive's Reviews (New Review - Keeper of the Day and Night)

I recently posted in another thread that all of us on the Choicescript forums should review the games we play more often, in an effort to spread love and recognition of the titles and format to a wider audience, especially on more public facing places like Steam, where so many titles don’t get many reviews.

So, this is my attempt to put my money were my mouth is, as well as accomplish a few other things:

  • Firstly, to show some love to the authors that spend so much time writing and crafting these Choicescript titles.
  • Second, give feedback that can be taken into consideration by the authors or other writers in this medium that hopefully results in more and better Choicescript titles for a long time to come.
  • Third, to help myself. I’m currently writing a (as yet unpublished) WIP Choicescript game I hope to get published at some point. So playing (and in some cases, replaying) these titles is a way for me to work through my thoughts on the craft of writing interactive fiction as I write these reviews.

As a caveat, I’m not a professional reviewer. I wouldn’t even count myself as a professional writer - I’ve always written for myself. However, I have read voraciously, and have been playing interactive fiction or text games since I first booted up Zork I on a 5.25" floppy back in the 1980s. The Choose Your Own Adventure books were popular acquisitions to check out from the local library.

I believe I first discovered Choicescript games specifically in 2010 with Choice of the Vampire and Choice of the Dragon and instantly recognized them as a superior version of those old books from childhood. At last check, I own over 70 titles in the Choice of Games, Hosted Games, and Heart’s Choice lines.

All that to say, I’m a bit of a fan, and plan to add my reviews here and on Steam as I work or rework my way through the titles I own. I hope you all enjoy, and feel free to give feedback or share your own thoughts!

Reviews so far:

Keeper of the Sun and Moon

Keeper of the Day and Night

31 Likes

Welcome to the top-secret fraternity of ChoiceScript reviewers! Once you’ve posted three reviews, we teach you the secret handshake, and after five you’re allowed to visit the underground headquarters without a blindfold on.

29 Likes

More reviewers is always a good thing. Any way to bring attention to these games is a win-win for all involved. You’re doing good work, mate. And as you said, playing them is the best way to learn how to make them. See what things you like and don’t like about what’s out there, both old and new. Good luck to you in both your reviewing and creating endeavors!

12 Likes

Thanks for the warm welcome and mod approval! First review (for no particular reason except it’s the one I just finished reading):

Keeper of the Sun and Moon

by Brynn Chernosky

Released Jan. 2019 - 310,000 words

Keeper of the Sun and Moon is an urban fantasy set in modern times where you play as a freshman college student who discovers there is a world of supernatural creatures, monsters, and magic hidden in the fringes of our own. After a car wreck you’re attacked by a gorgon, things escalate, and you find yourself attending a magical college in New Magi City - whether you want to or not.

PROS:

:green_book: Plot. Keeper of the Sun and Moon is great. For the reader it’s basically Harry Potter: College Edition meets Supernatural. The “magical school” plot has been done seemingly endless times at this point, but Brynn Chernosky does it very well with enough differences and uniqueness that it never felt derivative to me. The opening scenes also had just the right amount of intrigue, danger, and world-building to keep me glued to the screen.

Your character’s introduction to the magical world is much less whimsical than “You’re a wizard, Harry!” and more ominous kidnapping with polite niceties. Chernosky gives you the opportunity to lean into either direction—you can be thrilled to be introduced to the mysteries of the magical side of the world and getting your very own acceptance to New World Magi Academy, or you can make it clear to everyone that will listen that it’s all been under duress.

:green_book: Choices. One of my favorite things in Choicescript games is when the author lets the player be a sullen spoilsport and Keeper of the Sun and Moon delivers on that front. At nearly every junction (except for two or three where a little railroading for plot was necessary) what I wanted to express in any given situation was there as an option in the choices.

Right from the opening, you can come in hot as a character and throw matches at every visible bridge that presents itself. Chernosky even has an opposing stat for Kindness/Cruelty and one for Resistance/Acceptance (more on that one in a moment). You can insult everyone you come into contact with, whether deserved (yeah, some of the opening characters deserve it) or not. In fact, there is an interaction early in the game where you can scream at someone to “Leave me alone!” that is nearly immediately followed by two polite characters introducing themselves to you and one of your options is “…Screw both of you.” How could I not pick that?

It was at that fated moment I decided my character would commit to being stubborn, rebellious, and dead set on making sure no one forgot they were enrolled to higher education under duress. I enjoyed this immensely, except for one small hiccup I’ll bring up when we get to the cons. This continued to pay off long into the game, including what I presume was an Easter Egg where my character groused about a movie featuring a chosen one finding out they had magic powers and getting whisked off to a school and loving it was incredibly unrealistic and stupid and that no one would react that way.

You get to pick between one of two extra classes each semester, what species you turn out to be, how you fight, how smart you are, or even if you’ll learn magic or not. In keeping with testing how committed Chernosky was to letting my character be an absolute rebel without a cause, I decided I was completely human and rejected any attempts to teach me magic. I was pleasantly surprised by how well that kept paying off for my character, including a few funny scenes were villains assumed my character had powers and my character could scream about not having them or make exasperated remarks about anti-magic effects. I even got an achievement at the end for being fully committed to being ‘not special’. A+

You even get to pick a part time job, though I’m not sure what impact that had on anything. It’s mentioned they pay different amounts, but my character always had money when they needed it. I chose being a newspaper intern as my part-time job and it resulted in just one scene and then was never ever mentioned again.

:green_book: Romance. There are (perhaps too many) romance options, with up to ten potential love interests according to the store page for the game. This is no doubt due to the fact the romance options seem to be gender-locked (I’m not entirely sure, some may change), so Chernosky probably wanted to make sure an equal number of male and female romantic character options were available.

From what I saw on my play-through of the game the romance-able characters are fairly fleshed out, with wide variety in personality types and dispositions and seemingly lots of chances to interact.

Now, as I’ve said, I was a cruel sullen character who told nearly every other character off constantly, but still managed by apparent sheer force of happenstance to become pretty close to two of my fellow students, and hat’s off to Chernosky, it felt natural, even with my character being a jerk at every opportunity.

I didn’t end up romancing or dating anyone, and I know just from some of the options towards the end of the story that I was missing a huge opposing chunk of story by not getting close to certain characters, but everything still resolved in a satisfying manner that I felt explained and finished the story well—even if I knew I didn’t have the whole story.

:green_book: Replay value. Even though I’ve only played-through Keeper of the Sun and Moon once, I can already tell there are tons of branching scenes and sides to the main plot that I didn’t get to see, and whole character relationships that I missed. This is one I definitely plan to replay after I finish the sequel.

CONS:

:closed_book: Occasional odd choice format. There were a few times in the game where I was asked to make a choice about what a character said to ME, or how they reacted to me, which I thought was weird for established characters you already had a relationship with. For instance, one choice I received was to pick between a character complimenting my outfit for a dance or insulting it. My thought was that one of these was out-of-character.

I know the reason Chernosky likely added these choices - they serve as a way to attempt to mend bridges or continue to let them burn, but I feel like they could have been easily flipped to maintain perspective continuity and still give the player the option to mend or damage the relationship, for, by instance, letting the player choose to compliment, insult, or say nothing about the other character’s outfit.

:closed_book: Too many characters. I almost feel bad for putting this as a con, but at one point I went into the Stats Menu (thankfully, Chernosky included a Contacts option that kept track of character names and who they were) and counted characters. At a little over half-way through the game I counted just over 30 named characters involved in the story. That’s not counting others that are briefly introduced and named just to give verisimilitude to the world—at one point my character contacts some friends from their old high school and another 4 or 5 names got thrown into the mix, but never came up again and so weren’t added to the Contacts.

I played through Keeper of the Sun and Moon over the course of two days and learned my fellow dorm mates very well, and had a good handle on most of the other students. Thankfully the professors were referenced with their classes often enough I didn’t need to remember them much—most of the professors are given one defining character trait for the player to keep them straight. One is late constantly, another is laid back, and one is classically strict and unforgiving.

Other than that, there is what feels like a near constant introduction of officials, politicians, student family members, and elites of New Magi City. Sometimes Chernosky has mercy and gives enough information to remind you who they are when they are mentioned again, but there were lots of times when a character would drop a name and I’d have to stop and do a dance I got very familiar with— going Stats Menu->Contacts->Other and looking for the name mentioned to refresh myself on who they were and why everyone in the scene gasped at the implication of said person’s name.

There are multiple times in the game where the player is given a list of names and it turns out the lists of names are only significant in that they are each hiding one relevant name in the noise, for a better player than me to use to play detective and find family connections and plot elements.

It’s never a good sign when a significant revelation in the epilogue that was set-up as a big moment of surprise is undercut by me having to leave the scene and do menu scrolling to figure out why the revelation was, well…a revelation. To Chernosky’s credit, they were very good at updating the Contacts information as the plot progressed - in fact, when I checked the Contacts in said scene, character info had already been updated.

As I said when I started this con point, I almost feel bad listing this as a con, but it really was too much for me to keep track of on a first play-through. I can see where on replays it would get easier and easier to keep everyone straight, but I didn’t have the mental bandwidth, so for me, it did hurt the story pacing. Some dramatic moments didn’t land as hard because I simply didn’t understand the implications of people who were being referenced.

:closed_book: Disjointed pacing. There were multiple times the story felt a bit disjointed. Some of this was necessary for a story that spans an entire academic year. The genre itself, by necessity, leans a bit into ‘slice-of-life’ territory with jumping between classes, months, and events, but I would have liked for there to be more connective tissue.

The appearances of the villain in the story always felt a bit too random for my tastes. I believe two or three times they just literally appear behind you like a performer in a haunted attraction and practically yell, “The plot continues now!”

Again, some of this, particularly in regards to the main plot, may be my fault. I know I could have seen a bit more connective tissue by getting involved with certain characters that I did not talk to in my play-through.

:closed_book: Surprise game-over. I’ve saved my biggest complaint until last.

Do you remember how I mentioned I’d get back to the Resistance/Acceptance opposed stat in a moment? This is that moment.

The game does a great job of allowing the player to express their displeasure over the entire situation they find themselves in, with repeated and frequent choices to call out other characters, express unhappiness, and refuse to perform tasks. I thought this was great. I found lots of fun in watching that Resistance meter increase. I eventually got it up into the very high 80s, which if you know anything about Fairmath and opposed stats…yeah. I was that big of a sour rebel.

Which brings me to this: Dying and getting a game over for making a choice similar to multiple other choices you’ve made really sucks. I don’t think it’s good narrative or game design to allow players to refuse the call to adventure and Chernosky does a great job throughout all the early story of letting the player do just that—insisting they don’t want any part of attending New Magi Academy, and writing frankly great, funny, or entertaining responses to railroad you into going along with the plot anyway. I really did enjoy taking the opportunity to pick those choices every time, watching my Resistance stat rise, and seeing the friction or fireworks.

So, you can imagine I was shocked and annoyed that three chapters in, after a series of choices that felt similar to all the other Resistance raising choices, the game replies with ‘okay’ and lets you just quit the narrative, at which point it kills you. No checkpoint. No option to go back and make a different choice - just a short scene to show you that the thing characters warned you about would happen if you walked away from the narrative would happen - did happen. And now you get to start completely over.

I was very much enjoying the narrative, my character, the interactions, all the sullen resistant options that had fun responses, pretty much everything up to that point - but when I made a choice I thought the game would block - like it had all others - and just get a bump in my Resistance stat - all that progress was, quite literally, erased. I was so bothered I actually walked away from the game for a day, almost considering dropping it, only to reconsider after a night’s sleep because I had really enjoyed it up until that point.

So, the next morning I took several deep breaths, drank some coffee, and I spent 15 minutes just speed running the choices for the first three chapters and doing my best to pick the ones I remembered choosing before and clicking Next to get back to where I was previously before the game-over. At that point I was finally on to new story, but with a slightly sour taste and a paranoia the game would kill me and erase my progress again. That continued to sit in the back of my mind the rest of my time with the game.

Now, some people familiar with the game will likely point out the author has a character warn you if you make that choice it won’t end well for you and that should be sufficient warning. However, as a counterpoint, the game has two previous scenes where you can, quite literally, choose to give up and die—and the narrative continues. Each time I just got an increase to a stat like my Resistance, so Chernosky had already primed me not to put much stock in character warnings and had taught me that they as the author would not let the story end.

So, uh, yeah. This con is that I almost rage quit.

Final Rating:

:orange_book: :orange_book: :orange_book: :orange_book: :orange_book: :orange_book: :orange_book: :open_book: :open_book: :open_book: (7/10)

Final verdict, I would recommend Keeper of the Sun and Moon. I look forward to reading the sequel Keeper of the Day and Night. My save file with my sullen, rude, non-magic human character is ready for a second year at New Magi Academy.

17 Likes

Ha! I’ll hold you to that. I collect secret fraternity memberships. :face_with_tongue:

Thanks. I already posted this first review to Steam, but I found I had to edit it quite a bit. I was apparently over the Steam review character limit by just a few…uh, many thousands of characters. :grimacing:

Anyway, the author can benefit from another review on the store page, albeit shorter, and you guys can get my more in-depth review breakdowns!

10 Likes

This is a fascinating deep dive - thank you for posting. I am especially interested in the idea of wanting to play as a sullen spoilsport! I would love to know more about where the attraction is there. Genuine question, I promise! I am such a teacher’s pet that I have to constantly remind myself to give options for players who want to be abrasive and difficult!

10 Likes

Well, for me, it’s likely because I’m like you—in school I was a teacher’s pet. I very much had Hermione Granger’s personality growing up in school. I was always top or second to top in my classes academically, beloved by the teachers, and really could, looking back, be an insufferable know-it-all.

Seriously, one of my first memories of kindergarten is coloring at a table with other kids in the class, looking around at some of the kids next to me, noticing they were only using one or two colors, and raising my eyebrows at them scribbling outside the lines! I don’t think it says anything favorable for me that I still remember thinking as a 5-year-old (!!), “What idiots.” At least I don’t remember saying that out loud!

Like Hermione in the Harry Potter books, I also, especially as I got to high school, engaged in what would now be called malicious compliance when I didn’t like something. I won a stupid fight with the vice-principal because I was so incredibly polite, had amazing grades, and the teachers loved me, and I refused to follow a rule he had, so every day for a think it was a month or two, I just broke the rule then walked myself to detention on my own and then sat and did my homework quietly. This meant he had to stay later too, so at some point he just gruffly said, “Fine, I don’t care anymore. Stop coming to detention.”

So, since I like to play other characters in Choicescript games (I never self-insert), I find it really fun to be a “bad” kid. I also find it is a good test of an author’s ability to write choice into their narrative, because they obviously probably prefer a player jump at the adventure they’ve presented and get lovey with the romance-able characters they’ve created.

So to me, it’s extra high marks on the author’s commitment to reactivity when you can scream at a love interest to back off, or just straight-up flunk a character creation test on purpose. Chernosky made this extra fun, because characters actually react to your attitude with fun responses. I mean, how many chances do you get to play a chosen one against type? Just visualizing the scenes of a sullen character rejecting all this “magical nonsense” at a magical school kept me smirking the whole time.

7 Likes

Well, I completely love this answer! It is also quite inspiring. And you’re right - it is a commitment to reactivity on the part of the author because it would, I think, involve writing really quite different branches just for that one choice each time, whereas variants on “I agree to do the thing” can survive with just flavour text differences.

Also love the idea of your teenaged rebellion! Victory!!

6 Likes

Not branches necessarily. Chernosky actually didn’t do a lot of branching for rebellious choices, instead (as they should) making sure the player HAD to go along with the plot, but they still made those choices feel meaningful by acknowledging them and having the flavor text and character responses be appropriate.

For instance, you might get a stern sentence or two scolding from a professor, or short shouting match with a character, or even just your character pouting and thinking about what “utter unfair BS this is”.

One of my points is that you should NOT let your players actually reject your story hook or premise. You should definitely block them. But if you make them feel seen and acknowledged for trying, it goes a long way.

4 Likes

I see. OK that sounds a lot more doable. Thanks!

3 Likes

Sounds like I need to add the game to my list of case studies. Also I really want to play a super grumpy character now.

5 Likes

Question: Can you link to an offsite review that suffers no such space constraints in the Steam review itself (just say something like ‘For more detail, click here’). I don’t know if this is possible, but I did do it with the Steam guide for Parenting Simulator after repeatedly trying and failing to get Snowflower’s terrific guide to format properly for Steam. So I just posted a ‘guide’ on Steam that consists solely of a link to the guide on these forums.

2 Likes

I have just tried.

It’s put the review under “Automated analysis content check system” review, so we’ll see if it keeps the link or not. Some users have reported Steam automatically removing links from Steam reviews, since some bad actors try and use them for nefarious means.

It’s a good idea though, and I’ll let you know if it works.

EDIT: It seems to have worked! That will make things much easier going forward.

3 Likes

Now I want to play Keeper of the Sun and Moon again. It was one of my first choicescript games and the one that made me fall in love with the medium.

I actually quite liked the large cast and all the politicians off handedly being around, but I can see how that might be overwhelming.

I highly reccomend it, especially for playing a grumpy character.

5 Likes

I seem to actually have it in my library! I just haven’t played it.

3 Likes

I embarrassingly had it my library from some point years past and had never read it either until now. I actually realized this past month that I have about a dozen Choicescript titles I own but have never read, so that was part of the impetus to start doing these reviews too.

6 Likes

I do that in the prologue of my WIP, where the player has the option to try to nope out of the adventure. It never works, as the character recruiting you has a way of coercing you into it that varies depending on your profession. Which character it is also varies based on profession. Some of these are quite amusing. I think the criminal route is especially fun for that, both for the hook that gets you on the case in the first place and the way you get pulled back in if you try to get out of it. The dilettante response to refusing is great too.

3 Likes

Zamn, that means I have to write two more reviews. Maybe I can look up my old beta emails, add a few jokes and post them on this forum.

In my current WIP, the player actually has an option to reject the story at multiple points. Each of these options leads to a game over several pages later, as the main character sets out to become a tungsten miner and someone else steps up to fight the forces of evil.

5 Likes

I haven’t yet got caught up with your WIP but I love the two moments like these that I’ve come across. Absolutely hilarious. Probably wouldn’t have chosen them though without being able to save, so I could see them being frustrating at publication.

But you do give us very clear warnings that we’re about to game over.

1 Like

That’s my main issue with these in Choicescript titles. I can absolutely see instances where it would be funny or neat to have unique “game-overs”, but without the ability to save and titles being hundreds of thousands of words long, it just feels unnecessarily punitive and cruel to players’ time investment.

One thing to also keep in mind is that for most of the audience that only read titles once - they may actually quit your title right there and not ever play it again. You really have to ask yourself as the author what the cost to benefit ratio is with game-over scenarios for you.

To me, I don’t think you should ever give player’s an exit door until the ride is OVER—that’s my design philosophy. You’ll never enthrall the reader ever again like you do the first time they read the story. I think sometimes the WIP players who enjoy playing games over and over can skew perception of mechanics like this, because they aren’t representative of the wider audience buying Choicescript games in store fronts.

I come at it from an old tabletop Storyteller perspective, where the interactive fiction is a collaboration between author and player. The author creates the framework, sets up the story, theme, and characters, and the player is guided through it.

You can still implement successes and failures for the player - but I believe they should boil down to this: A successful check, action, or choice by the player moves the story forward in the direction they want. A failed check, action, or choice by the player still moves the story forward - but in a direction they don’t want. You’ll notice that no matter what, the story moves forward. It does not END.

Some Choicescript authors may think this philosophy or standard removes stakes or reduces tension in a narrative or game they intend to be stressful for the player - but it doesn’t have to, not at all. Lack of death (and end of the narrative) for the player doesn’t mean an absence of consequences. Poor choices or bad skill checks can still take resources from the player, impose penalties, move the direction of the story in a way the player doesn’t want, or remove allies and other characters, either through death or withdrawal from the player. I think you should still be careful not to allow negative spirals with no way to recover, but you can still make players nervous about situations and making choices without the threat of taking away the entire story. To me, that’s the equivalent of yanking a book out of your readers’ hands.

Another reason I think this way is that most Choicescript games are in second person, and some are in first. Either way, the player themselves are the viewpoint character. They are the vehicle through which the narrative is presented and if they cease to exist, well, so does the narrative.

Plenty of novels, even war novels, have 1st person narrators, so you know the narrator will live, but it doesn’t remove any of the stakes. All Quiet on the Western Front, for example. But you never know when the narrator (or player) will make a mistake or decision that costs them or someone they care about dearly.

6 Likes