I’m not gay but I AM into women, and Illya hasn’t given us a reason to be angry.
16 Likes
Ilya is to be protected at all costs no matter which way you lean. And Eli. They are the only acceptable ROs here. Everyone else is an asshole who’s just using you or you know they burned you alive in front of hundreds because you did a “bad” when various sorts of mind control magic (and similar things) are a known quantity and despite you only ever doing good and only question his decision to LITERALLY BURN YOU ALIVE I CANNOT STRESS THAT ENOUGH well after the fact when he feels guilty like that helps and totally isn’t spurred by selfishness
36 Likes
Ok, some sorta related questions for people, regarding Leon and also our execution.
1/ How much power do you think Leon has as a king?
2/ Do you think he wanted to kill us? Why or why not?
3/ Do you think his guilt/reaction to the revelation is selfish? (obviously, we only saw a little bit of it and some description from Saine, but from what you’ve seen so far?)
4/ What do you think Leon should have done if not execute us?
5/ Did you romance/consider romancing him, and do you think your feelings about him prior to that part of the story influences your feelings over it all?
6/ Do you forgive him?
My answers
1/ Honestly, not as much as one might think. From what I can see, Param operates under a feudal system. Feudal systems are not the same as autocracies, the King’s the nexus of power, but he still has to battle with nobility, clergy, mercantile class, and even the peasantry. Too many people get pissed off, and woops, the king’s lost his head to a treason charge. Leon, as a young king, whose only really spent his two years on the throne fighting a war against invaders, is not gonna have the kind of power even his older brother had.
2/ I am not entirely sure if he wanted to kill us, I can see it going either way. Either he wanted to save us, but couldn’t, or he felt betrayed and acted on that feeling. I am leaning towards him feeling betrayed by us. Either that, or he was in a crisis of loyalty, between us and Param, and he chose Param, which, in fairness, he should have, he’s their king.
3/ It’s really hard to say someone’s grief, guilt, or whatever is selfish. I do think their was some selfishness in his urgency to kill us, if he was truly wanting it. I think his guilt and shame is rooted in his not believing us when we said we had to do it, despite what we meant to him, in him getting it wrong, and him not doing enough to save us when we needed him. I forgive him outright for it all, but even I can still say, quite plainly, he did fail us.
4/ I do not believe there was an alternative he could have reasonably pursued. Pardoning us when at the very least the clergy of Param, if not the nobility and citizenry as well, had already condemned us would have just put him in danger. And likely would have been ignored and we’d have just been killed in some other way. An investigation o try and turn up something on us likely would have gone nowhere. Even trying to let us escape like Saine and Ilya tried wasn’t something he could have done, given that that would have just condemned us to a life on the run.
5/ I did romance him, and yes, I am certain that colored the way I interpret his actions.
6/ I mean… yeah, I’ve already said I do.
12 Likes
Welp looks like this is starting up again
3 Likes
Answers
1 - All of it. Param is feudal in the sense that the landowners appear to own the peasantry (note how the Silcur Arcadians did not leave Silcur after the Massacre), but the Parami king appears to hold absolute power. Whenever a legal measure is mentioned (e.g., changing the law about revealing magical conditions, taking the Silcur Duke’s lands, ending the legal slavery of Arcadians, etc.) it’s always in the sense of the king doing it, and never about any council of nobles or anything being involved. Also note that if political favour was something important to the Parami Crown, being Leomar’s bodyguard would probably go to a noble family whose favour the Crown wanted to buy and not an unknown nobody, as it was considered a prestigious and safe position (before Mireil decided Param looked REALLY GOOD in blood red, that is).
2 - Irrelevant. He still did it, with no magical or physical coercion.
3 - Depends on what you mean by selfish. It certainly doesn’t make the MC less betrayed or less, y’know, dead (if they were still dead, that is).
4 - Have a fullblown investigation, because I still can’t believe nobody thought it was inky that after being instrumental in saving the Saintesse the MC would just assassinate for… what?, after being alone with someone who’s KNOWN for using mind control magic. Everybody in Param is a dumb fuck and none of them should hold a position of authority.
5 - No and no.
6 - Depends on what you mean by “forgive”. If you mean “are you going to gank his betraying ass next time you see him”, then no (well, unless it’s in battle - I’m nto going to go out of my way to kill him is what I mean). If you mean “do you think you could be friends again”, then lol no. People who have me burnt at the stake are by definition not my friends. I didn’t need pyrophobia added to my list of traumas, thank you very much.
11 Likes
Uh, oops. Didn’t mean for that :/.
1 Like
Answers
-
A fair bit, I would say, I mean they don’t call it a “King” for nothing. Though, I do think the church has a lot of power in the kingdom given how angry everyone was over the Saintesses death, and it would be hard to outright defy them.
-
I think Leon didn’t want to kill us right after the assassination, but when we “refused” to talk to him about why we did it, he took that as a sign of guilt. He takes everything at face value, he doesn’t take any time to think things through. He is very much a “Shoot first, ask questions never.” kind of guy.
-
I think honestly it wasn’t enough. He probably should have given up the crown. He killed a national hero, whom without the entire kingdom would be dust. You can’t recover from that.
-
We explain to Leon after the banquet attack that Sister uses mind control. At the very least, we should have been given way more than a week to have our name cleared.
5a. I have the gae so no lol.
5b. My feelings totally changed. I originally just thought he was a little slow, but had a good heart. After, I saw how damaging his lack of awareness really is. As they say, Hell is paved with good intentions.
- I just don’t think that’s possible. There’s something about being burned alive that just sent my cinnamon roll of an MC off the deep end. I mean, she named herself Pyre and is now mean as dirt. She def gunna need therapy at some point, and I have a feeling razing Param will be very cathartic for her.
11 Likes
And here I thought I was on the nose with “Revenant”. Now I wanna go with something fire-related.
Having a severe twist to their personality afterward sounds like it’d be fun to play. I’m kinda sad mine already starting losing it after Sister cursed (? I think I’d call it a curse) her, and she wasn’t the most morally upright to begin with. Again you’ve influenced me, this time to maybe try a more emotional (in a cinnamon roll way, not the explosive way my MC/myself normally is) character that gets super fucked by the betrayal. In any case I hope that the other characters will react to such a difference.
5 Likes
Answers
- Well, on the one hand, he’s a king, and the monarchy seems absolute here. He definitely has a fair bit of power. On the other hand, the Sword of Damocles is an ever-present threat in Param so making too many people angry could be a death sentence. Scheming and vying for power is a huge pastime for the nobility. It’s one thing to have absolute power on paper and another to be able to use it. Nonetheless, he could have definitely tried to aid us with his influence, or gone down trying to defend us like a real friend. Illya risked her church position by vouching for us, why can’t he?
- Probably not, we were friends after all, but his decision to do so still got us killed. He also chose BURNING instead of beheading or something.
- I don’t really see how guilt in and of itself can be selfish. Selfish would be if he only cared about being absolved rather than actually making things right.
4.How about have some faith in his buddy and ASK why we couldn’t tell him what we wanted to know? - I mean, like I said before, I’m attracted to women. Going the opposite route isn’t necessarily out of the question, I mean, I’ve played female characters before so it’s not like I only play characters that I personally identify with. I don’t think I’ve ever romances a male RO in a game before though, including this time.
- Well isn’t that the million-dollar question? On the one hand, we didn’t stay dead. As a strict consequentialist, that makes his murdering me far less horrible an act in my eyes. After all, the reason murder is bad is because people die from it. However, the betrayal of a close friend and the horribly painful method of execution make up for that a fair bit, though less so if we really did suffocate before the fire reached us. Whether he can make up for it in the future remains to be seen. I’m as likely to forgive as turn on him tbh. Depends on which country I go with.
Some more stuff:
Anyone know how to get Savior of the Damned?
I have to wonder if Arcadia will just stick to their old homelands or if we’ll have the opportunity to take over Param and Silantira. Or maybe Param can conquer Silantira during the war.
So, if I reclaim my family’s lands, I can solve this problem myself. Which may or may not be related to the above question.
Ok, a small criticism here. Why is it that every time we try and do something really cool with our magic, we stop just short of actually accomplishing it? I swear, this has happened a ton of times throughout my playthrough.
Oh, that’s good. Now I want to make a thaum mc with a name like that. The irony of fire being a primary weapon is too delicious to resist.
12 Likes
People with no power are allowed to have lack of awareness. People with power and lack of awareness are a catastrophe.
I mean, Phoenix is one of the presets.
If you mean the collar, it is specifically referred to as a cruse in-game, so you’re not the only one calling it that.
In Param, only the royal family can wield the Sword of Damocles though. It’s just a very good sword for everyone else.
Ilya was totally cool with facing a prison sentence for springing us, made all the more important because it’s the only time you see her take a personal risk for no personal gain.
I got Saviour of the Damned with high Enchantment and telling Ilya basically “fuck that noise” when she tries to get you to choose whether to let the elderly or the young die.
Ilya’s Saintesse and her brother came of age during the war with Salantira, so the problem is gone.
In this particular case, I’d wager it’s because you’re not supposed to have Nyx. Nyx is the phantasma for a different bloodline.You’re running iOS on a PC, and there are… compatibility issues.
6 Likes
As far as I’m concerned, I want Leon when I see him again to be run down and slowly killing himself from the guilt, if he’s doing that then I might be willing to be his friend again, if not, I want him to surrender his position as King to me, because I don’t think his judgment is suitable for being King if he can just forget what kind of person we were, even Iliya and Saine said as much.
Now that I think about it, I’d like to have that option in game at some point, to be able to call him out on it and claim he’s un-fit for leading the kingdom, hopefully Ilya and Saine would back me up.
2 Likes
This is highly unlikely. A substantial part of the Parami royal family’s authority is derived from the fact that they’re the only ones who can wield the divinely-gifted magic-cutting sword that was instrumental in founding the kingdom in the first place. At best, you might be able to get him to abdicate in favour of Saine, and even that is majorly iffy, because Saine won’t fuck and making Saine king means it’d be the end of the Parami royal line, which I’m pretty sure nobody would go for without the involvement of extreme violence (i.e., you’d have to kill these people).
Also, lol at the thought of a deeply Jovian country letting somebody with Arcadian blood have a say in things.
That’s definitely a fair stance (What’s a little murder between friends? A lot, as it turns out). I look forward to seeing what options Paravir gives us. Considering Leomar appears to have a pathological need to be liked, just telling him “no, and also fuck off” when he asks for forgiveness might just do enough of a trick.
6 Likes
Fair point, still want to make him pay somehow.
3 Likes
Now that I think about it… If male MC is romancing Leon how tf is it going to work? Damn, this relationship is doomed 
( 
)
2 Likes
Thalia gets her wish of turning the magic-cutting sword into a non-factor in one generation without having to do anything, I guess. And then the Arcadians eat popcorn (Flyss eats eggnados instead) and watch as Param immediately gets thrown into a bloody civil war because there’s no rightful successor, and the only means of establishing royal authority now work for absolutely nobody.
6 Likes
insert this is fine meme I guess
7 Likes
That’s ok, I don’t need an excuse.
Here’s hoping there’s some ancient cloning machine the Arcadians had (longshot, I know). Developing a magical version of IVF could go a long way. Plus, thanks to Saine and I, the kingdom would basically have to admit they fucked up and only continue because of Arcadian magic. This combined with the marriage between me, and the current pope could force the end of Arcadian persecution once and for all. None of this has been hinted at, I’m just spit balling here (plus I’d lie a similar method to have my own kids).
4 Likes
Kings often have multiple consorts. It’s likely that Leon would just get one of them pregnant. The infidelity isn’t something I think Leon would just do by himself, but I could see him being easily pressured into doing it for an heir.
5 Likes
insert THIS IS NOT FINE meme
4 Likes