No dont make it “fae touched”. Dont. Please don’t romanticise it. Im begging you as a nonbinary person: dont seperate nonbinary people from binary people in that way. Having nonbinary genders usually or only exist within cultures like aliens or faeries or robots, who are not human, demean and dehumanise nonbinary people, even if you didnt mean to.
@Bagelthief, thank you. That’s one reason I asked, to make sure I wasn’t being stupid about it. I will make sure not to do so. <3
Sounds like a good idea. Maybe you even ask a non-binary MC if they are actually half-fairy or just normal human beings who happen to be non-binary.
Having other cultures and fantasy races have nonbinary folk (or be composed of them) as well as people is good, but do take care to not accidentally alienate nonbinary folk by getting across that theyre too “special” or “different” or “supernatural/inhuman”. Nonbinary encompasses countless genders, not just an absence or both binary genders at once. You might question the genders of your fae? What are they in relation to other nonbinary folk?
Also will there be dragons
If you’re going for a French feel, then I’d have suggested using French, only it’s very gendered, isn’t it?
I’d strongly suggest against calling all non-gendered characters fae-touched, because that’s othering them, providing magical reasons for something that you’re trying to show is normal and commonplace.
I mean there’s a difference between saying “all fae-touched are non-gendered” and “all non-gendered people are fae-touched”.
Edit1: Ugh seriously I keep messing up my replies and accidentally replying to people I don’t mean to. Sorry seabean.
Edit2: And oops, seems I took so long to post I got ninjaed.
Yeah; remember also that while the absence of gender (agender) falls under nonbinary, not all nonbinary people are agender.
sorry fairygodfeather im on mobile
Consider the idea scrapped, totaled, and now put in the embarrassing folder of my brain labelled, “Things You Don’t Think About Because You Are Cis.”
I know I’ve said this already, but I do appreciate this feedback. I wish I wasn’t stumbling into these pitfalls, because that makes me realize my limitations as a game designer and a person. But also, it’s good to know them so I can overcome them not only to be a better ally, but to create better, more inclusive games. Properly.
Thank you. I do mean that.
send me a pm anytime if you have any questions! i also have other nonbinary and binary trans contacts if you want more opinions on certain subjects!
we all must trip over hurdles to learn to jump better; the fact youre not giving up because it seems too hard or too embarrassing, and remain open and willing to learn is truly admirable! dont feel bad!
I’m more worried I’ve made other people feel bad! Mostly I feel embarrassed. It’s one of those things that someone else points out and you’re like, “Oh god now I see it oh no they’re right wow that was moronic.” I will certainly get over myself and all the egg I’ve just smeared on my face.
Hmmm. Would it be useful to turn the OP into a masterlist of the terms we’ve found so far?
I dont see why not, it’s your topic!
Sometimes we need a second opinion! Im glad we all could help!
It is done. Scroll up and behold.
@cascat07
I think calling non-binary people “sayyid” or “hajji” would be a bad idea, because Islam doesn’t (usually) accept the LGBT community.
@SwanMaiden
Others already explained what might be wrong with your idea, but I personally don’t find it offensive, if the story takes place in a world/time where/when transitioning doesn’t exist. Being fae-touched or something similar would explain why the characters are physically genderless and other characters don’t mistake them for men or women. Of course using magic to transition could explain it too in a fantasy setting.
I was just using those as examples of other forms of address that are gender neutral and not related to official position. Sayyid being a dynastic name and hajji being an honorific based on accomplishment like doctor.
@SwanMaiden would need to create fantasy versions in either case that matched her Western European inspired setting.
are you nonbinary? i feel that while not offensive in a “they’re obviously less than human” manner it is certainly problematic.
there’s no such thing as “physically genderless” as gender is now used in modern terms to mean gender identity? not all nonbinary people wish to present as androgynous.
are you talking about transgender or transsexual? some people don’t want to transition, and some binary trans people and nonbinary trans people don’t want a different body.
@SwanMaiden I don’t think it was actually something that moronic to say, and at least you asked, as opposed to just going ahead and implementing it in the game. I actually think it is an idea that it would have been possible to implement, not precisely as described mind you. It’s just one that it’s probably easiest/best not to, since the minute you step onto that path you’re walking onto a minefield.
@Lavender Hello and Welcome to the Forums!
I’d definitely agree, that a fantasy setting with transformative magic, and a race of non-binary beings, is a game changer. It’s something that is going to have an impact on the setting.
@Bagelthief Remember that not all of our forum members are native English speakers. And even people who are trans can fumble about the terminology and make bad word choices.
@Bagelthief
I meant transitioning to a sexless/androgynous body. Of course there are non-binary people who don’t want it, but if I wanted to play as a feminine or masculine presenting character, I’d be okay with choosing a cis character.
@FairyGodfeather
Thanks!
Correct me if I’m wrong, but @Lavender, do you mean to suggest we could use magic as an alternative to hormones? Because that seems a lot less fumbly than the suggestion I presented earlier, mostly because it’s taking something in the real world and giving it a fantasy version of itself without making anyone anything other than human. (PS, hi welcome to forums!)
Further, @Bagelthief is totally right in that there are many ways to be non-binary. I’m actually looking at how @Sashira did Monsters High, and I was really impressed with how thorough it was with regards to gender identity. I’m working to do similarly in my game.
@FairyGodfeather Yeah, it’s definitely nuanced. This thread is a perfect argument for diversity in any game design room. Pitfalls aren’t always easy to spot when you’re wearing certain blinders. The good news is that once they’re pointed out, you’re better at recognizing them next time.
I wouldn’t use the phrasing “alternative to hormones.”
I would say that the existence of magic, plus the presence of fae, would completely change things though.
Fairytales are filled with transformative magics. There’s Cinderella’s transformation from servant girl into stunning Princess, there’s all of the blessings they cast upon Sleeping Beauty. People are turned into Frogs, Beasts, Bears, Swans.
I think that’s very compelling, the possibility of getting the body you want, no side-effects, no problems passing. If you want complete androgyny, it’s possible. If you want to be able to switch between male and female, there’s certainly a curse, or a blessing for that.
Of course those sorts of magics usually come at a price, are temporary, or are subject to the whims of the fae. Certainly, not everybody would seek out those sorts of changes, since not everyone who is trans or non-binary wants to change their body after all.
And I think the very existence of fae also changes things. If there are these stunningly beautiful non-binary creatures, that can bless or curse you at their slightest whim, then firstly, people are going to be very careful not to insult them. You’ll have your whole set of pronouns for dealing with them, otherwise they may be apt to smite you. And you may end up with human fashions that mimic those of the fae, and people dressing/presenting themselves in a similar manner.
But that’s just vagueish thinking.
Oh that’s much more articulate. Yes, that.
Yes, I agree. It seems like this should be possible, so I’d like to make it possible in the most inclusive way. Unrelated to anything else, I do have the first option you pick being what blessing your fairy godparent gave you (beauty, cunning, etc). And since this is Beauty & the Beast, of course when you meet the Beast down the line, they’re cursed into a beastly form, and you meet many people who have been cursed into objects once you’re in the castle. It makes sense that in a world like this, such transformative magic should exist. The question is the way to implement it without Othering.
Certainly. It would be great to have this option though. I’d prefer not to have any steep price for it, I don’t want this to feel punitive at all.
That does make sense. In my head, fairies use a royal We and are referred to in singular plural pronouns. They’re also treated with utmost respect for the reasons you’ve listed. It’s a line though isn’t it, having humans who mimick fae behavior and then having humans who are actually non-binary? Minefield indeed. It would be important to differentiate that humans can be many genders, and were this way regardless of the discovery of fairies. Fairies simply happen to be one androgynous gender. That’s my vaguish thinking anyway.
(PS: I think this conversation is very promising and extremely helpful but I also notice it’s a bit different than the topic at hand. Should I start another thread for this, or is it acceptable to keep discussing it here?)
(PPS: Nevermind I cheated and tweaked the title so it’s more obviously on topic.)
Oh, thanks! I worked really hard on it; PM me if you want to borrow some of that code. A lot of the credit goes to @bagelthief and @spacelesbian though, they both gave me a lot of suggestions about how to write other options.