Why are there so many HGs genderlocked to male?


#734

Finish defeating the mythical creatures to see it. It still makes me a bit sad.


#735

While what you guys are talking about seems really interesting, can you guys not go off topic because is kinda disappointing to come here because of the notifications, but it’s not about the genderlocking male thing, sorry if i sound rude it’s not my intention


#736

It is tho, if you read earlier post addressing Assassins Creed gender locking their protagonists.


#737

Well, I haven’t played Oddessy myself because I heard its microtransactions are like Shadow Of War’s so I skipped it, but the thing is that hate is under the pretense of historical accuracy. One of the draws of Assassin’s Creed is that it’s actually pretty damn good about historical accuracy except where it’s deliberately invoking historical conspiracy theories like “The Knights Templar are secretly still around and manipulating events” and no one minds that’s not accurate because it is the premise.

So I expect that if we went all the way through the variant of me explaining Saber I’d get to whatever the version of

you’d say and I’d say that is dead on and perfectly plausible, hats off to the writing team. And I’d be happier than if the justification was that historical accuracy wasn’t that important. But ultimately even in the latter case I’d probably just play the female protagonist and then grumble that they could have done better and then probably there’s a heated argument and I get halfway through talking about the Aenead and how her epithet should be “The Woman Who Fights Like A Man” and she should use a bow because she’d be Artemis’s chosen heroine before I’m told that we’re talking about gender in Greece, not a prominant female warrior in Rome’s famous myth.

Also I actually have an inverse of this conversation relating to Saber Red every so often where I explain the reason she uses the Sword Of Mars* to invoke the power of Venus when powering up for a final bossfight is that as a Roman Emperor her patron goddess is Venus and she’s specifically invoking her militant aspect Venus Victrix, “Venus The Victorious”, and Augustus Caesar sought her blessing to aid his fleets at the Battle Of Actium to defeat Cleopatra’s armada.

And, like, if you want a female warrior or ruler in any historical setting I can probably find you information like that. And, well, far as I know there isn’t a known Japanese Empress, but there is Queen Himiko Of Yamatai, and Yamatai is in Japan. And so Tomb Raider fudged things to put Yamatai on an isolated island (we don’t know where it is but Tomb Raider put it somewhere it isn’t) and decided to have the dubious Chinese records that she ruled through witchcraft be accurate. Which is fine because Tomb Raider plays things a bit loose and justifies it by having Laura believe the claims of witchcraft are just historical sexism (which probably they are) and saying she thinks no one has found Yamatai because they’re looking in the wrong place.

*technically it’s not Mars’s sword, it’s actually from an unnamed primeval war god, but alt female Attila The Hun beat him up and stole it and the Romans called it the Sword Of Mars.


#738

The micro transactions take nothing away from the game. Ive never once felt I needed to buy them. In my opinion this was a step forward in the franchise, and being able to choose your protagonist and the other still playing a major role in the story is something I appreciate. I hope they continue with this.


#740

I’m talking about Odyssey. I never played Shadow of War.


#741

The short of it is that I played Shadow Of War and I conplained about the microtransactions and I got pretty much word-for-word what you said about Oddessy so I don’t find it reassuring.


#742

The cash shop has stuff like perminant xp boost, which you don’t need, marks collectibles on the map, which you don’t need because you have a game mechanic that can do that if you’re in the area, and some cosmetic stuff. Oh and additional content that will be coming out (season pass stuff). There are free updates that are adding stuff like the last for example was a cyclopes fight where you got a legendary weapon for beating it. The cash shop isn’t that tempting for me, except i kind of want one of the ship designs, but that is about it, some of it can be acquired in game though collectible currency and it’s not hard to get.

sorry for being off topic now


#744

I don’t usually write that often on here, but here are my two cents. I don’t care if the story is gender locked in fact I sometimes like gender locked stories more than the ones which let you choose your gender. I don’t mind playing as female (I’m male btw) only if the story has a valid reason for having one gender


#745

so you don’t care if the story is gender locked . but on the other hand , you also want a valid reason for them to be gender locked ?!? :face_with_raised_eyebrow:


#746

Well, I don’t care if a game is gender locked but I do preferentially pick female characters as a habit formed from a sequence of AAA games where I picked the female lead for a specific reason (voicework, because Skyrim let me play Mistborn’s female protagonist who looks like an Imperial and in the sequel trilogy Survivorist churches tend to have her depicted with her characteristic paired obsidian daggers in their stained glass windows because while they worship her male mentor they venerate her as the Ascendent Warrior, because Persona 3 added a naginata-wielding female option in the PSP port and I’d seen a partial playthrough of the original) and think you should only gender lock when not gender locking would require too much typing. If you can spend enough time typing then Choice Of Broadsides mode will never fail you.

I showed what I think is good up with Empress Theodora’s famous speech that changed the course of Byzantine history and by extension that of the entire Mediterrainian. Here’s what I think is so insuffiecent you shouldn’t bother:

"“My lords, the present occasion is too serious to allow me to follow the convention that a man should not speak in a man’s council…”

That’s what you get when you change references to the protagonist’s gender directly and nothing else.


#747

Yes I’d like a valid reason for why it’s gender locked like it has to be relevant to the story


#748

Valid reason: Anyone who genderlocks to male clearly doesn’t respekt wahmen. Nuff said :triumph:


#749

well said


#750

i dont think i agree with that statement sometimes its hard for writers to write a story for there opposite gender for example when i started writing at a young age all of my stories had a male as the mc not cause i dont respect women but cause it was easier for me to write from a male perspectative then a female but as grew older i started experimenting writing stories with a female mc but i found it so much harder cause i would worry about if thats what the mc would do when i write a story its like im reading it as my own story like i actujal did this its like a movie playing in my head and im the mc so its easier for me to write a male mc then it is a female mc


#751

Well… I haven’t made a major attempt at writing a full-length game mostly because I know I can’t finish a 100,000 word writing project (I speculatively wrote like three thousand words of a prologue then set it aside and at some point lost it in a hard drive crash) and if I tried to start one I’d finish I’d give thought to gender locking just so I don’t have to use as many variables and as many multi-replaces because that’s a good way to wind up with a 60,000 word incomplete project instead of a 60,000 word complete project assuming I can get to 60,000 words at all. So if I can’t do gender locking I just don’t write a game about being Emperor Justinian or about being Empress Irene.

I write a story about being a time-traveling magic cyborg who fights evil aliens intent on wiping out all sentient life, except actually that’s a summary of the Nanoha/Doctor Who crossover I’m writing, specifically the Time War arc. Assuming I wrote that to be gender choice (obviously can’t actually make it into a game because copyright) I would cut the jokes about how the Tenth Doctor is a bit miffed that when danger threatens Ginga sweeps him up into a classic Princess Carry (punchline; he starts explaining that he doesn’t like being treated like a princes- wait, that metaphor doesn’t work here, does it? “You’re not nearly fierce enough to be a Belkan princess, no,” one Belkan princess lost her arms in a nonspecific incident and so when her carriage is attacked by bandits she has to kick them because she can’t punch them.) but that’s not really the main story so it wouldn’t be a huge loss. I mean Ginga would sweep him up into a classic Princess Carry but I wouldn’t have Ginga respond to his complaining by solemnly promising to stop carrying him like that.

Oh also I am contemplating switching from Ten to Thirteen but I’ve already started it so I’d need between one and three Regenerations depending on how I’d resolve Eleven and Twelve. Could happen, but I don’t have any Regeneration arc ideas yet. Except I’m kinda considering Corsair Regenerating from a male incarnation to a female incarnation as a triple-layer fakeout where male Corsair ends up being impersonated by a highly recognizable female Nanoha character and the Doctor brushes this off because the Corsair switches genders between incarnations sometimes, and then when this is resolved Corsair actually regenerates and switches genders. None for the Doctor, though.


#752

You know, I think a good example of why I care a bit about historical accuracy is that there’s a specific reason I follow but don’t play AC (I was contemplating making Oddessy my first purchase; AC1 came bundled with a graphics card) and it is that I watched a full Lets Play of AC2 and thought it wasn’t perfect but I might buy it, and I heard jokes about the final boss and I didn’t realize the joke was that it was an actual accurate description of the final climax of the story until we actually got to the last round of the last bossfight.

Summary

Ezio sets aside the Apple and proceeds to get in a fistfight with The Pope. Yes seriously that is precisely what happens; I thought it was hyperbole about Ezio and The Pope engaging in a duel with the Apple and the Papal Staff not being well executed until the moment it actually started. Because after twenty hours of listening to a professional reviewer talk about the actual history of the period and how this particular Pope had gained power (short version, basically what happened in the game except no Ezio and no superpowers) the idea of this ending with a bare-knuckle brawl with the Pope was too dumb to believe.

Funny thing, though, Magical Girl Lyrical Nanoha ViVid is about Clone Space Jesus taking up magical mixed martial arts and punching people a bunch, so it’s not the concept itself I don’t like.

I demand plausibility in my religious figure pugilism narratives!

The phrasing is a joke, but I do mean the idea seriously; I don’t require accuracy to the real world, I care about consistency within the setting. However, I like history so in high school I took Latin and AP History, and in College I took 2.5 years of Japanese, dropped Japanese Visual Culture due to illness, and took courses on Byzantium, Medieval Europe, and The Viking Age, so not only do I know a lot of details, the courses focused on why things are the way they are. So I don’t mind if surface details are different, I mind if the details are different but the reasons aren’t and the new details don’t track with the reasons.

I remember the emergent story of Kyriake Gladius Christii so fondly because it was unlikely but plausible she rose from a farmgirl to the general who outdid Belisarius and let her emperor(s) (I don’t remember them because I play CK2 a lot) do what Justinian could not.

Also, if someone cites historical accuracy when complaining about AC:Oddessy and has no objections to AC2’s climax, ignore them they are lying.

Additional note: it is very true that there’s a lot of women who aren’t in the histories we have, but it’s not purely that men wrote the history books because one of the major primary sources about the First Crusade is Anna Comnena’s The Alexiad, her biography of her father Emperor Alexius. There’s a lot of stuff that was never written down because not every culture is big on writing, a lot that wasn’t written down because it was common knowledge, a lot that was lost to natural causes, and a lot that was in the Library of Alexandria when it burned down, and a lot that was in the Library Of Baghdad when its ruler decided to intentionally offend Ghengis Khan and this had predictable consequences, etc…

Sexism is a big reason, but it’s not the only reason; Queen Himiko of Yamatai appears in 3rd-century Chinese records because she was notable enough that they recorded her story. Then sexism is probably why they say she rose to power using evil magic; probably this is an exaggeration or distortion of pre-Shinto religious practices but the oldest extant source on Shintoism is several centuries later (it doesn’t mention Himiko but it’s theorized she got conflated with one or more Imperial Consorts it does mention) so that’s not certain.


#753

I’ve only ever written short stories and comic books. I did finally get round to writing one with a female main character and it was more than a little bit worrying. I wanted to do it correctly, so that in the unlikely event someone read my work they’d actually enjoy it. At first I wasn’t sure whether or not I should simply write a male character and then change the pronouns but this felt disingenuous. In the end I decided on having female friends and family review my work in the hopes of improving it. To answer your question, it’s daunting representing the experiences that aren’t yours.


#755

Honestly I’m not too bothered by it in CYOA games, mostly because there’s so many where you aren’t genderlocked that having a couple here and there you are doesn’t seem like a big issue. I’m much more bothered by the many, many video games where your only choice is to play as a male.


#757

One thing to bring up is that doing it this way and having the story be about the woman MC’s struggle to break the rules would require the game to be genderlocked to female. If you’re actually telling a story about power, gender and privilege, it’s likely to require a genderlock (or a Choice of Broadsides Mode, which I’m not too fond of but I understand the appeal of) because it’ll be written from a particular point on the hierarchy of privilege and oppression.

On the other hand, the idea that PCs are exceptional individuals and can break the rules without having to deal with too much crap for it (or possibly an offhand comment by a sexist idiot) absolutely works for historical settings, because there have always been powerful women who broke the rules. Tell me that a woman can’t command an army in medieval Europe, and I’ll laugh in your face and remind you of multiple women by the name of Matilda - Matilda of England, who spent her life in a violent war against sexism, and Matilda of Tuscany, for whom being a woman was hardly an obstacle to being de facto Queen of Italy by force of arms.