@Kalpana AFAIK you only need to pay 100$ to put your title on steam/play store (no idea how much for other retailers) so its not that risky anyway (and explains why those stores are bloated with trashy apps) if autor had to shelf money themselves or COG changes its policy.

Also, to not be completly offtopic - It would be interesting if you any game here had element of competition or jealousy scenes (old bioware games style) between RO’s or if you could be dumped by your RO’s if they find out that you were being in relationship with both of them (like in W3) which would lead to bad ending or them taking their revenge on MC.

Well in “totem force” and “keeper of sun and moon” you can get dumped by some LO if you make bad decisions or go against them but its not releated to cheating

Oh and i really dont know if i could count that as writing trend but i’d be very happy if more authors decided to either implement difficulty seeting, like in adrao games or cheats like in Breach - i mainly play for the story and dont really want to restart X times because either i made a mistake, misclicked or be punished because this one time i decided to take an option which is not permitted/reccomended by my stats.
Too many titles force you to play as this one archetype you choose at the begining and if you stray you get punished.

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Wouldn’t know about totem force i was too axe crazy to romance. And keeper wouldnt let me romance the villain. :cry:

^^^ A billion times this. I hate it that even the “forward” ROs sit around waiting for the MC to make a move. The closest I’ve seen to this is in the Supernatural in New York WIP, where, in a couple of spots, you can choose how your LI responds to what you’re doing (with Grey, anyway, because I’ve never tried a different route). I would like it a step further, though, where the RO just makes a move and the MC can decide what to do with it.

Agreed. I love Breach. One problem with the whole stat-based idea is that, a lot of times, I think an answer should affect a stat one way, but the author has it affect it differently. The author’s definition of a ‘fighter’ may not coincide with the reader (example: in Wayhaven’s book 2 demo, “running away” adds a point to the combat ability, while standing your ground does not, and that makes zero freaking sense to me).

A lot of the things affecting stat abilities end up being completely subjective to the author’s definition, which may or may not match reality or the player’s perspective. To me, this causes a huge problem with immersion, because your MC becomes something other than what they should be. So we either need a way around the stats with cheats, an “easy” mode where you can flat out choose your MC’s personality/skills (as in an RPG or D&D where you can add the points as you wish), or the author needs to put a note next to the choice so you know wtf stat you’re affecting and whether it fits your MC (even if it’s something like the old BioWare games, where the top choice is nice, the middle is smart-assed, and the bottom is asshole).

And I might have said this before, but it bears repeating: for God’s sake, if you’re going to make a RO that is sex-driven, physical, and into flings, LET THE MC BANG THEM! Don’t sell us a RO with the promise of FWB or fuckbuddies that builds into an actual relationship, then suddenly have the RO turn into a prude. That’s the plot driving the characters rather than the other way around. And if the author is too uncomfortable with such a relationship, do us all a favor and don’t write it in the first place–it’d be better than teasing something you have no intention of giving us.

Edited to add:
While we’re talking romances and stats–I’d love to see an author who finds a way to divide certain stats. Some MCs are sexually bold but emotionally shy, while others are emotionally bold but sexually shy. I’m not sure how you’d name those stats (maybe I just did?) but it would be nice to have that division, especially in games that are supposed to be romances. It’d even be helpful in games where relationships just play a significant part in things, because it would help flesh out the MC and make it easier for the author to auto dialog when necessary, instead of throwing us out of things by autoing it wrong for the MC.

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@EvilChani yeah, too many times my understanding of a stat was entirely different that of an author. You mentioning wayheven was spot on - while im not going to play demo, because i prefer full experience as far as i remember in vol1 it was also a problem. But at least in that title your stats were not really that important and you could roleplay your personality however you want, without any harsh penalties.

Heroes of Myth on the other hand…
I really wanted to like that game, premise was amazing but it was so stat heavy and convoluted that i never managed to finish it, even though i restarted so many times.
In that title you were (as a player) punished HARD in almost every instance of dialogue . Either you play exactly as author intended (or i should say your starting stats allow you) or your stats and relationships are taking heavy hits everytime you try to
break away from your role. This game could really benefit from easy mode.

Pon Para is amazing example of stat heavy game done right. Everytime you had to pick what to do all options were described. “You will fight with antagonist? Ok but this time check will use your intelligence because it is crowded here, if you prefer to overpower him its better to throw this gigantic stone*” etc. no suprises and no punishing player for having different perspective than author.
Well since Kyle Marquis is COG author and really amazing writer i hope more writers here will follow his example.

Of corse i cant stress this enough - not all games here have this problem.

*this does not happen in Pon Para, its just loose example.

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I never played that ( and won’t now, lol) but I had the same experience with Zombie Exodus and Choice of Deathless (I think that was the name of it). I kept dying because I misunderstood how the choices affected stats. I finally got pissed off and stopped playing them both. It was too damned annoying. If I want to worry about stats that much, I’d rather play a video game, where I have more control over things and can raise my stats myself.

I haven’t tried Pon Para, but after what you said about it, I might have to try it. Sounds like it has good game mechanics, if nothing else. I’m typically more focused on story and NPC interaction, though.

For Wayhaven, book 1 was bad about the choices not really mating up with the stat changes, too. And I appreciate you didn’t really get punished for it (too bad), but you could quickly end up with a fighter type who gets their asses kicked because you misunderstand the choices. That is a problem, IMO. There’s also too much forced emotion…

Which brings me to another thing I’d like to see in games. Stop forcing emotions on our MCs. Let the player choose, instead of the author. My MC in Wayhaven is fearless, yet she’s constantly about to crap her pants because of fear. Um. Nope. Breach seemed to do about the best job of that I’ve seen, to be honest. Breach did a lot of things well.

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@EvilChani
Well Pon Para has amazing story and characters, with really great romance (at least with nymph, havent tried thief and poly romance, and im not interested in it) it is also very long, probably longest COG title - like a good book.
So you dont need to be rejected by it being stat heavy - its one of few stat based game done right.

Seriously, Pon Para should be golden standard for other titles here.

About breach tho - i was really put off by “random dice” thing but after playing it, i would rather put my faith in random system (which can be capitalized on) than play a guessing game.

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Oh I want a trend of Magenta Options in games with Gods. I’m playing pon para and The god is like https://getyarn.io/yarn-clip/3cf086fc-5d85-4e89-a678-242c7de8edce and i want to respond https://getyarn.io/yarn-clip/f478ec52-3781-447c-b7be-3a2daeaf3c55 . but i can’t.

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YESSSSS! I played Magenta once! :heart: And you are absolutely right- there should be more Magenta choices in most games!!! :smiley:

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I’ve had to think about this one for a bit, but there’s something I’ve noticed about personality stats and how MC’s are locked into certain personality types? I know this sounds weird but hear me out. This is more for the blank slate MCs and not predefined protagonists (highly understandable that you’ll have canon traits this way).

Every charismatic MC must be outgoing and extroverted. Every stoic MC must be apathetic to things going around them, be aloof, and shrug at things (can I say I really like it when characters point out how out of character it is for a stoic MC to react emotionally?). And the opposite, every emotional MC must be constantly reckless in situations and prone to outbursts/snappy at people. Every sweet MC has to be naive and innocent and it’s definitely not because I just want to give compliments to the ROs. Oh and the dreaded “every introvert MC must be reserved and hardly socializes”. I, ahem, there are social introverts (Oh wow what an oxymoron. I’m one myself so yes we exist)…haha.

I have a few characters (for WIPs haha. Roleplayer mainly here) that are stoic, but are really teddy bears inside. The flavour texts don’t really reflect that at times… And especially later on in relationships when my characters are more comfortable with a certain character, they’re still stoic and can’t unleash that inner teddybearness :sob:. There’s…not many games that allow for this complexity to happen as of yet. I also have charismatic introverts, but the game treats them like they are extroverts and like talking to others 24/7… As for my emotional characters…some of them have high emotional intelligence, so they have high self awareness and can step back when needed.

I dunno. It’s a slippery slope. How do you account for all of this without adding too much work? But I suppose that should be in its own topic and not here. Thanks for listening to this ramble if you’ve read the entire post. :+1: There are a few WIPs that I can name that are already keeping this in mind, so thanks! I really appreciate the options.

So tldr; it would be nice to have more personality stats that don’t lock into the usual personality types. Or at least give us more options to react a different way depending on the situation and have the characters react accordingly. I get that it would be hard to code for and a lot of work though… Heck, I’m having trouble with it too.

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More stories where we do something more interesting with your character’s parents/guardians than killing them off, now I think of it.

Also more stories where the player can be a parent! (The handful we do have as full games and WIPs are all pretty awesome though.)

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I definitely agree with the “parents in the fridge” thing.
Is something that I see in many work of fiction: either the parents are good people who are killed off and it became a reason to start a revenge story, or said parents are terrible persons or even one of the Big Baddy the MC have to fight. The in between is very rare.

One thing I really like about Wayheaven is the chance to define the MC and their mother relationship. I always have my MC be Mommy’s kid because is so rare finding good/serene parent-child relationship in fiction, at least in the last years.

I understand that a complicated relationship between parents and their kids is interesting to write, and many find it relatable, but many people have functional families too!

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I think a major problem with the MC’s parents is that sometimes the author just can’t find a way to make them an integral part of the story so they decide to just write them out all together or just kill them off. Which kind of sucks because we see it all the time. But, if the parents aren’t important to the progression of the story, then I don’t see a point in having the spotlight be on them for a long period of time. So it’s easy to want new interactions with the MC’s parents but I think it can be difficult to properly pull it off and make them important to the development of the story. Especially if they’re are a normal everyday family.

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It’s not just a problem with authors, but with script writers as well. Parents and mentors don’t have to be murdered to get them out of the MC’s way. It drives me nuts when people kill off characters because “well the MC doesn’t need them!” because that’s not how life works. Sometimes, the mentors/parents should just let the MC go live their life and be there to talk to, as a friend (so you can show a good relationship with them) or annoy the shit out of the MC until they’re forced to tell them to back the hell off.

It can be difficult to pull off, but it can be done.

I like that the MC can define it, too. But there’s something about the whole setup that works on my nerves like sandpaper. It’s unprofessional to stick the MC with their mother in that sort of working relationship, especially when Rebecca has already proven to be extremely unprofessional when dealing with her kid (stealing DMB, for example, and being so against the MC working with the Agency). My main MC literally hates the woman–she’s a crappy mother, was never around when my MC was growing up, and, now that she’s a grown ass adult, Rebecca is always up in her business playing protective, and hiding stuff from her or lying to her.

So the whole thing is off to a bad start and will clearly affect the MC’s relationship with UB, since UB acts like Rebecca walks on water. If I was into angst, it’d be cool, but my MC–if she actually had any agency in the story–would request a different team or, at least, minimal or no contact with Rebecca, on the basis that she cannot trust Rebecca at all and feels she’s going to be a problem that keeps the MC from doing her job and cultivating a good relationship with her team.

So, in one respect, it’s great to see a story that doesn’t murder the parents right off the bat, but in another, I feel it’s done in a way that makes everything more difficult for the MC unless the MC accepts being lied to and treated like a toddler by her mommy. If we get a chance to tell Rebecca to eff off, I will change my mind.

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Like the writer clearly envisions the MC giving huggles and cuddles and world’s best number 1 mom" mugs and fucking the sparkly glittery vampires who waltz i to their lives and say “fuck it you belong to us now” like i don’t know the author personally but i kinda want them to suddenly habe a quirky cast of characters just force themselves into their life like " We appeared putta nowhere and were going to be hanging around you all the time" and see if in real life they’d be like “Yaaaaay new friends” or “OMG GIVE ME SOME PERSONAL SPACE!” I won’t bother with the universe trying to make one of the intruders a lover. But just having a group forced into your life and being not only ok with it but welcoming. I know I’d filefor a restraining order IRL.

Sorry but had to rant for a moment and got off the topic of moms. Cant stand her.

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That’s exactly the contrary to what my MC feels about their mom, lol. They understand how it must have killed her having to be away for her career (my MCs are very work-oriented too) and how dangerous is (they are very professional in their work too, and know they would have to lie just like Rebecca if they had to, say, work undercover or something as police). So they see their mom work similar to their police career, but more in big. It would be hypocrital for them to resent her, since if it happen in their work, they would just do the same.
Plus the secrets. Is not like police can tell everything at home too. There are classified info, dangerous stuff, and rules. Who know what the repercussion would be for info leaks would be with a secret agency? Nothing good, probably. Worse than normal agency, surely.
Yet Rebecca demonstrated that she is not “blinded” by the rules. She can break them when needed, and this make my MC even more proud of their mom.
Point of view. Roleplay. Is what is great about choices :smiley:

It may bring a different type of drama, but not the overused (in my experience) family drama :slight_smile:

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Stories with MCs and ROs over 25 (characters are usually more interesting when they have actually lived and learned from life and such) you can go ahead and argue that teens/early 20s are interesting but there are SO MANY GAMES that cater to you, let us have something too, yo!

Also it would be cool if writers stuck to time frames/settings that they were actually familiar with. (And not just wikipedia’d for a sec.) Those of us that have lived in that time or place KNOW the difference…yes these are stories and are fiction, but if you pick a specific time or place for your story, you should probably actually know about it! Folks will help you if you ask! WE ARE ROOTING FOR YOU! :heart:

Those are my only ones, as I am usually so impressed with the stories that come through here ☆ great job, y’all!

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Oh crap, is there something weird in The Passenger? I admit my country’s ‘97 probably was different from US’ '97.

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I totally agree about the roleplay part. For instance, I dont really just play myself in games and often create characters/use characters I created in other places over the years so I dont have a one set character. For Wayhaven I made 3 main ones I plan to take through the series first and they all felt very different personality, ambition, and relationship-wise since there was so much room for it there.
Like one plays as a nice tech/investigative person who is a bit shy and cares about people more and totally loved his mother and after he was brought into the supernatural world understood why she left him in the dark and was so busy.
Second detective is more logic based, fighter/investigative, and starts out resenting her mom since she wasnt there but after by the end of the book, their relationship is in the process of getting better since she knows but reasonably isnt too close to each other still and I plan on progressing that depending on how the next book is which is great.
Then there is the third who is a charismatic people person and does everything she can to help people and care for them…because of how much she resents her mother and felt like she never cared for her and as an adult wants her town to know that she really cares for them.

To bring it back to the thread topic a bit thats what I want to see more of. Giving the MC room to be different personality-wise for different dynamics in stories between them and the main cast.

Another thing I would like to see more of thats really not done besides from Lucid’s games, more “Life of” type games where it actually covers the lifetime of an MC. Those stories did a good job in living through your MC’s life and going through big events and situations that popped up just like in real life. Also they didnt do it too much, but I think the Heart’s Choice label could definately shine in stories like these, giving you a chance to experience a whole relationship rather than just the beginning of one/a little bit after the two characters have confirmed their feelings for each other.

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@pimenita
Nope, not that I noticed! That game is perrrrrrfection so far :heart:

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Wow, so many comments I agree with.

One thing I really want more of is the freedom for your character to NOT be ok. I know some games are better at this than others, but if the protagonist has been through the wringer, been betrayed, threatened, hurt, lost people etc. I want to be able to express my anger/ sadness appropriately. No I do not want to go along with the plan because it’s the right thing to do and then smile and laugh in the next scene because I “can’t help it, they’re just so charming!” Like no. I do not forgive, I am not ok. It’s just darn rude.

Second major thing for me would be stats, as people have mentioned, and how restricting or confusing they can be. At their worst, it’s made games almost completely unplayable for me.

Sometimes it feels like the protagonist is a rat in a maze, and if you aren’t psychic and don’t do exactly what the author envisioned then you’re punished and preached at. I just want to experience the story, not have a 6 hour power struggle with the author’s algorithm!

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