I believe context is important in use of these words my man. If he was directing them at someone your annoyance may be more justifiable but in this scenario of simply listing words, and if they were apparently under a summary tag which means one willingly opened it, I personally don’t believe there is anything wrong with that.
I did not see the original post however to be fair and despite me spouting ideology like a fuck boy I do know however that it is against forum rules to post such words so I will not be as much of a fuck boy to start a argument or war over this.
Nothing to be fair.
Unless he gave examples of uses where the words could be used in a good way in stories, I again did not see the unedited post however.
Maybe I am just unique in the case of me seeing these slurs really doesn’t effect me but if it really does actually upset people I apologise for my seemingly fuck boy comments.
And again I ask: what does that add to the conversation? Giving the example, “this game uses this slur,” generally just listing the game and the slur, does nothing. Some discussion of how a game uses a slur (see, e.g., @bobsmyuncle’s post) could be productive, but you don’t need to list the slur to do that.
Also, it is my understanding that this thread is about discussing what “appropriate” use of a slur would be; you unilaterally declaring something is appropriate does not make it so.
There is no possible way a list of racist slurs adds anything positive to this conversation. Particularly one which is so charged with violent history in American culture that the general population will not say it.
Well I managed to look at it and it was actually just a list of other games and media that used slurs well. If you get rid of two of them that do not meld with forum regulation it would actually be a good list of examples where games use slurs in a way to set the tone, time period, and get some world building.
Around 9/10 of his examples involved fantasy terms like “Knife Ears” and bandits referencing the fact that they will turn argonians into boots. If he censored or deleted the “F and N words” it would be quite a nice list. Since COGs are games after and all should have just as good if not better world building and what not then those FILTHY normie games, so I beleive its a good list of examples that just needed editing of the words that are slightly “UnPC” and just stick with the fantasy examples.
An up and coming writer who views this thread may wish to actually view these games and do some research on ways to add some believable racism and made up slurs to their GrimDark Fantasy universe where you… I dunno play as a goblin or some shit.
Well it appears he did this thread a service then since it has clearly shown that the N and F words are unacceptable it seems and most people do not enjoy the use of those words in normal circumstances. I am attempting to look on the bright side of life my friend.
Also I apologise to any who may be annoyed at the thread getting off topic but since this chain of conversation deals with appropriate uses of slurs I believe it could still fit the topic.
I’m assuming I’m most likely the majority but I don’t mind the use of slurs in an IF game or story(hell, and while we’re at it as a person of color I don’t really mind racist slurs in an if game or story, there’s too many good stories that have characters saying racist slurs but send a good message.) I think as long as the author says they don’t justify the use of those words it’s okay. (if they are real words not made up of course.) After all you should put in what you think fits.
You’re extrapolating – most of it does nothing to address how using slurs does those things (let alone how well it does them, or whether they could be accomplished in a different way), making it basically just a list of slurs.
“This game uses slurs” tells me nothing about how well/why they’re employed, or what they add to a story, or how I can take a lesson from that in my own worldbuilding.
Aw yeah cool man.
Let us legitimately leave this thread alone though since we are to put it bluntly.
“Clogging the fuck out of it”
If anyone does wants to actually continue this discourse a new thread should be made since otherwise this is going to be a massive case of “The Pain Never Ends”
I think this part is key. I also think there’s a difference between fantasy/made-up slurs and importing real-world slurs/biases into games – personally, my threshold for “what’s useful worldbuilding vs what’s, e.g., just lazy writing” is way lower for the former.
I can’t speak for specific rules about slurs - I strongly suspect that it would be a case by case basis, and highly context sensitive. I very much doubt that they would be used in a CoG game. But I can offer my opinion.
Including real-world prejudice is a decision that shouldn’t be made lightly, and it’s worth considering what effect you’re trying to create with it… and what unintentional effect it may have, whether to a player who may be thrown out of enjoying the game, or making unintended implications about your setting.
Sure, misogynistic slurs show a misogynistic setting. But they harm real people in the real world, and can alienate a female player and make it feel like a game wasn’t written with them in mind (yes, not every female player will feel this. No, this isn’t a reason not to consider it very carefully). Does the setting need to be misogynistic? What does that achieve? Does calling a sex worker character a slur achieve anything other than making the character, or player, feel small? Is there another way that a villain character can be shown to be a jerk?
Fantasy and scifi discrimination has its own issues. But it has the advantage of not using words and concepts that directly harm people in the real world. Weyrwood handled this well, weaving class commentary and fantasy prejudice together in a setting that strongly evokes Regency social mores - without using real-world-harmful language. Isabella Shaw’s interview is recommended related reading.
Finally, this topic seems related to the question of how to handle discrimination in games, so if you haven’t read the following topics I’d recommend having a look:
Hannah has pretty much summed up how I feel about it, but I’d also add: slurs are boring and tiresome and unimaginative and when I read fiction that includes them with any frequency I… Just assume the work is too.
I’ve been rewatching Supernatural recently, and in season 3 all of the characters suddenly, constantly, start using multiple misogynist slurs. All the time. And it’s not better quality, it doesn’t make the show more fun to watch-the opposite, actually.
Outside of the context and purpose arguments that have been hashed out, I would say that using non-racist slurs would be probably allowed until they hit publisher’s floor and then the various platform’s floor (iTunes, Google Play, etc.) and that’s where they would pass or fail.
It was briefly brought up in another thread that the staff members rarely, if ever, read the thousands upon thousands of WiPs. By that factor, they’re unaware of the content of a WiP, so I would say that at that point… yeah… using non-racist slurs would be allowed because the “authorities” either don’t know about it or they think it’s appropriate/fit in with the CoG community guidelines & publishing guidelines.
The present and best case of “censorship” (and I use ‘censorship’ extremely lightly) that exists on the forums, strictly concerning WiPs, would be the Adult Content Category. The important thing to takeaway from these WiPs being in the Adult Category is that they’re still available for certain users to view however, so they’re not banned or disallowed by any means to certain players.
When or if a WiP is submitted to CoG’s or HG’s publishing process is another question entirely about whether or not non-racist slurs could be allowed or if the staff would ask you to make some changes.
Same scenario with the platform publishers who have have entirely different standards to the CoG or HG publishing staff. Your work might’ve been appropriate with CoG or HG, but Apple might say “No, we’re not willing to publish this,” and that could be the end of the line.
So… bottom line… I would default into saying that non-racist slurs are probably assumed to be allowed here in WiPs forums until otherwise (either by flagging or any other method) just because of how it works around here.