Superfluous Physical Attributes

I don’t think it’d be good to have ROs discriminate about the MCs body because that would limit the potential ROs for the player if the MC has a bad body or seem all weird and fetishy if they have a good body.

I’d be OK with a NPC noticing my gains :muscle: If I raise my strength significantly or a professor commenting on my smarts if I raise my intellect skill significantly or something like that and not negative.

I’m OK with a jerky character being a jerk who would insult the character for being too tall, too short, or too basic, as long as it’s clear they are a jerk.

I also don’t like the “I love your [insert color here] eyes” stuff. So, eh. :woman_shrugging:

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Is that directed at me? :blush:

“You were too tall to fit in the doorway, the treasure is forever out your grasp”

“I don’t like brown eyes, we can’t be together.”

Every time you give the player a character creation choice (like name, gender, hair colour) you slow the momentum of the story. It’s best to restrict those choices to what you want to be relevant to the story. If I have to pick my character’s hair colour, I want hair colour to tell me something about the setting or have ramifications within it.

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Choice Of Romance had an input for hair and eyecolour IIRC and personally I always found it grating, as not only did it never again come into play, but the scene itself read like a bad novel, what with looking at the mirror and describing oneself. (Evertree in had the same problem).
The only time using the ‘looking into a mirror’ worked (for me) was in Hero: Unmasked, as there you don’t actually describe yourself, but pic the gender.

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I would love to play as myself but the setup of most of these games have me choosing for target character builds instead.

If I have to set my appearance they could at least have some transformation elements or something.

I do use the mirror in my (on hiatus) second WiP… :sweat_smile: It’s clichéd time-honoured and well understood by readers. I do, however, give the player the chance to skip the scene (and thus character creation), by choosing “I know what I look like”.

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*points up to the bit about ‘upping the wordcount’ * sigh

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Points up to the bit about how some people like to have character creation. :expressionless: And I use 550 words for the scene, so it’s hardly overinflating the wordcount. (And I’m not entirely sure we have the same definition of “superfluous”, for that matter.)

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I apologise. Let’s agree it’s all good as long as it does have some influence on the story.

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I would say that the general disconnect between fans of ‘superfluous’ information and detractors is perhaps more telling of most people’s particular play-styles. I think many who dislike picking things that aren’t ‘useful’ (hair, eyes, body structure etc) are choosing to engage with the text as a game first, rather than a story first.

That doesn’t mean they’re not interested in the story, its just they’re dropping superfluous information because it doesn’t synergise with their character build. Those who prefer that superfluous information seem to be more interested in the story as a piece of fiction than a game.

For example many of the complaints about not wanting those choices put in are based on what tangible benefit it provides the player. For example:

If it isn’t useful in some regards, then get rid of it.

Whereas to that second group who do enjoy the extra choices, they don’t view the story as a game as much as a roleplaying experience, where any extra information one can glean from any particular choice is considered a good thing because that’s more information.

That may contain some bias because I would place myself firmly in the second camp, to the point where my WIP doesn’t even have a stats screen yet, just choices that encourage the player to make decisions based on what they remember from the text itself. Looking to start a fight with a giant grey golem? Remember that he was slashed across the belly earlier, so go for the vulnerable mid-section or risk a beating.

No min-maxing, no statistical saves, just application of things learned from the text.

However I would agree that characterisation choices that are never mentioned again are not a good thing at all. In my game I make sure every choice made unlocks more information about the world, and will be used again later. For example when choosing hair colour, you have ‘traditional’ colours (blonde, brown, black, red etc) and then a collection of stranger colours (purple, white, green, blue etc).

Rather than just being there to help people look ‘cute’, choosing any of these colours unlocked information about the extensive genetic engineering the human race has undergone before the story. This information is contextually important, allowing players to feel a little bit closer to the world they’re trying to inhabit.

Naturally these colours are mentioned sporadically as the text goes on so as to properly ‘place’ a character in a scene. Much as Harry Potter’s glasses are periodically mentioned almost invisibly throughout the Harry Potter series, so too do these little choices help remind us who is talking and orient ourselves.

I would argue that in this particular medium, that is a powerful tool. If you can allow someone to roleplay a character in such minute detail that they begin to really inhabit that person, you as an author can start to play with that perception, making your stories more complex because you exploit that relationship and indeed the reader themselves.

…if you do it right, that is.

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I would say that that’s more part of the game (since it provides clues for an easier experience) rather than part of the story. A description of the golem’s ornamental headdress would be a better example (unless it could also be used to defeat the golem).

I’d also say that a character creation choice can still be useful, even if it’s never mentioned again, simply by helping the player to better visualise their character. Sure, obviously it would be better if the choices made were brought up again later, but I do not think that it’s inherently bad not to (uninspired, maybe :thinking:). Unless, of course, you write the game as though the player had made one of the choices, no matter what was actually picked. If, for example, you choose to be “tall”, then half the cast shouldn’t tower over you (unless the story is about meeting literal giants). That would certainly be bad.

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So much this, make me feel like the MC is an afterthought to the story.

I am in the pro superflous details group, even if it is not used it does help me with immersion.

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I think I’ve mentioned this before.

All choices should have an impact. And its up to the writer to ensure there are no ‘superfluous’ choices. If they do then that is the fault of the writer as opposed to the format.

If your going for a an appearance customization there are ways to incorporate it, some fashion is more functional. Say you have something stylish or utilitarian (one will have more pockets) or hell use it to flavour a few scenes.

Body types should be used less aesthetically and more practically.if you’re gigantic and strong translate that into stats and reactions. A light person will make it across a brittle platform the bigger person might not. One could be strong the other more agile ECT.

It’s more fun to make seemingly superficial choices have a use than not to in my opinion.

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I think NPC descriptions are a different topic. It’s ok to describe a golum especially for people who don’t know what one looks like or their clothing.

For clothing, there are so many different types of clothes that it may be easier to just describe the clothes as sexy, intimidating, regal or something like that. I like choosing my super hero/villain clothes because it’s an important part of a hero’s overall heroness. I generally like clothing choices.

@Pace675

I’m ok with waiting to name the character. I can better name the character something that fits with the setting. Like if I’m playing a dwarf and dwarves have names like Sleepy, Happy and Grumpy, I might want a name that describes my personality too.

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I’d actually place myself squarely between the two, or in both. A game that is primarily a story I can very easily enjoy as such, but some games are light on story and heavy on stats and focus on building those and I’m good with that as well.

I just don’t need the text to tell me what my character looks like since I can make that up myself.

I generally, when perusing a story, don’t care for narratives that hold my hand and give me all the superfluous details that I can fill in myself.

To me it comes down to the old show, don’t tell rule. I feel that stories (movies mostly, but I’ve seen books fall prey to this as well) where there needs to be constant exposition to explain the plot demonstrate a lot of insecurity on the author’s part.

But truthfully we’d all have to delineate ‘story’ and ‘game’. Most Choicescript stories are pretty much exactly both.

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Well, I view the character creation scene as basically being a description of the MC, so as far as I’m concerned these are equally “superfluous”. :stuck_out_tongue_winking_eye:

Agreed. It also means we get to assume we have several different outfits, instead of just the one. :thinking:

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I thought part of the deal for being an mc was wearing one outfit for the story?


I don’t really like the idea of body types influencing my stats, but then again I usually stay in the fantasy genre :laughing: Although I probably would like the “light person making it across” Or be more accepting of it in a realistic setting.

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The thing about physical choices is that it’s basically impossible to account for every single option. There was nothing more disheartening for me, as a mixed person, than playing Creatures Such As We (otherwise an excellent game!) and scrolling down the long, detailed list of racial options and finding that all mixed people were grouped together at the end. (That game also contains age categories that do not, as far as I can tell, affect the romances at all. Which makes me feel like there was no point choosing at all.)

The physical choices that have worked for me the best are the ones that tell me about the world, and myself, through what they don’t offer. Monsters of New Haven High uses the choice to demonstrate the ways in which the various monsters differ from humans by giving a limited range of choices. The Eagle’s Heir lets you choose from a few different ethnic backgrounds by talking about where your mother was from, also helping connect you to French history, which helped me get immersed in the setting.

And—for the record—if you want to help indicate that white is not the default in your setting, the way I like best is to provide a variety of non-Western default names during character creation. You can’t cover every option, but it isn’t as harsh as “pick your race from this list, which will never be mentioned again even though by putting this race selector here I acknowledge that race is important”, and is definitely less hostile to mixed people, who have multiple races but only one name.

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Seconding this.
And sometimes trying to account for a lot can even come across as mockery, in the sense that it feels as if options are there so the author gets praised for how inclusive they are. That is the worst case scenario, though. Though it can happen very easily when paired with a story that is very keen on railroading. Like when you have no choice BUT to romance a character you’d prefer kicking off the balcony. Or if the author doesn’t account for an option that will not end in misery.

Additionally seconding Eagle’s heir as a good example, as the options of your background do play into the game (not greatly, but IIRC they can influence your relationships with certain characters)

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Ugh, you had to bring that up didn’t you? That jogs some bad memories of Children of the Gods, where choosing “tall” for male mc is mostly a joke choice since half of your fellow male demigods will always be taller still. :unamused:

I’m kind of the opposite here, having the opportunity to not only customize the appearance of my mc, but also having the game use that in its narrative on occasion helps me immerse myself in it by making me really feel that it is the story of my character. When such things are lacking I find it can quite often become more a case of the story of me, the player, having to play a self-insert.
To be fair some people like self-inserts, I very much don’t since I play these games for fun and escapism and often a big part of that is feeling like I’m transcending my own shell and walking in the boots of another man.
So, yes, I very much like to (role)play characters who are very much distinct from myself.

It is always nice to have an actual wardrobe. :wink: As far as I’m concerned @Snoe is the current master of that particular trick. I know that my First prefers “leather and metal” in his wardrobe and one character already refers to that fact, yet it leaves me free to imagine the minutiae of the actual outfits and garments myself.

Look who’s stuck in the 1980’s and 90’s now. :stuck_out_tongue_winking_eye:
More modern games tend to lean more towards this trope instead.

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