You’ll have to argue with Shakespeare on “and then,” though. If it’s good enough for Shakespeare, it’s good enough for me. How fun to discuss conjunctions!
“First, give me trust, the count he is my husband,
And what to your sworn counsel I have spoken
Is so from word to word; and then you cannot,
By the good aid that I of you shall borrow,
Err in bestowing it.” - All’s Well III.vii
Well, honestly, I’m one of those silly conspiracy theorists, who isn’t quite certain that Shakespeare was only one person, so it’s entirely possible that one Shakespeare was a heathen, who felt the need to use “and then.”
All that being said, I suppose it comes to personal preference, but it definitely just doesn’t sound quite…right. Sort of like when someone sings slightly off-pitch. It’s not bad enough to hate the entire song, but you get icky feelings from it. (edit: in my opinion, of course)
Grammar exists as an explanation for why people use language the way they do. It is a useful tool for describing and teaching language. But one can derive grammar rules from people’s usage, rather than trying to pigeonhole usage into preconceived rules. People use “and then,” which conveys a clear meaning; this doesn’t confuse anyone. That means that it would serve us better to find the logic behind the expression rather than to dismiss it as not having logic at all. If people use “and” for meanings that are not purely simultaneous, but any other form of additive apposition, that indicates that “and” has more to its meaning than the reductive prescriptivist version would have it.
I do support proofreading, because sometimes people make typos, or express themselves unclearly, or are using a register than doesn’t fit the intended level of formality, and so forth. Nonetheless, I would not like to see this become a matter of gatekeeping. And there are also far too many “rules” that are born out of an attempt to impose “logic” that is contrary to the actual logic born from the language’s speakers themselves. (Complaints against singular “they,” criticism of split infinitives, prohibitions against prepositions at the end of sentences, etc… these have everything to do with certain grammarians’ notions and nothing to do with the way English actually developed.)
Oy vey, I didn’t intend to come off as gate-keeping lol. I was jokingly pointing out how what someone had posted as grammatically correct but poor writing is not entirely grammatically correct.
I’m firmly of the belief that as long as meaning can be derived from what someone is saying (without having to be completely reprocessed in the brain via re-wording), it should be acceptable. Minor mistakes happen.
I’m very sorry if it came off like I was gate-keeping.
While this is a good point, and true for a lot of people, I feel there’s also a large number of people who would specifically be interested in a game because of having this theme. As far as my own preferences go, I feel there’s value in having a mix of games where I’d get to escape from discrimination and ones that would really engage with the topic. I guess it falls a bit under the sliding scale of escapism… it’s good to have stuff on both ends and all the way across the middle…
I suppose having it be focused on a fictional minority depends on whether it’s a contrived metaphor for a specific real-world group, or whether it’s more of a worldbuilding thing
I do get what you’re saying, and I often feel this too, but I’d worry about seeing a story falter for this reason especially since I think it’d be a theme that’d be really interesting to write about…
This is a bit off topic, but I think it could lead to interesting discussion and viewpoints… if anyone thinks it’d be worth discussing further I could start a topic on it… or someone else could, since I’ll be going to bed soon
I unfortunately have close to zero free time at the moment for taking on more testing, but a while back when I saw it on the list I was curious and looked up the author’s site and there’s some demo chapters of a book for the world that the COG will likely be based on. I didn’t read enough (I’d need to buy the book) to be sure if I was a fan or not but it seemed interesting. From memory (it was a while ago) the book at least was about a private investigator who happened to be a hybrid, trying to make a living and caught between the law and the criminal elements. It kind of struck me as almost having some shadowrun influences but is gorier with more adult themes. Anyway, if anyone is unsure if you want to sign up, maybe check out the author’s site first.
I’d taken a gander, but it unfortunately didn’t really do anything to alleviate my impression of the game itself. For all I know, the game could turn out completely different from what I’d garnered, but when I had been considering whether I wanted to test the game itself, the description of the game is what mattered the most. What I got from that was:
There’s a segregated minority (moreys) forced into living in slums/ghettos.
There’s racial conflict between the minority (moreys) and the majority (pinks).
There’s gang violence likely attributed to the former two points.
For all I know, the “charming reporter” in the description is a ‘pink’ we have to rescue from demoralized moreys, and I had to ask myself: “Is this really a game I’d want to test?” The answer was an alarmingly loud “No.” I’d rather not risk opening a can of worms, y’know? Those are my reasons, anyways. I’ll hold my grievances to myself so as to not derail this thread further.
Ugh that sounds so incredibly interesting to me, and I finally signed up for my first ~official~ CoG beta. @jasonstevanhill thanks for bringing this to our attention! I’ve seen some CoG betas come up on the “new stuff” display but hadn’t seen this one. Looking forward to experiencing it and providing insight
I thought we came to some idea about how to improve that process some months back, with better communication and so forth–with threads devoted to beta testing and author participation encouraged.
I thought the brainstorming we did was really valuable, and I know I am really looking forward to getting to share my beta with lots of forum testers when it’s ready at the end of this summer, and getting to be active in its thread.
That makes a lot of sense. Even the slow down when you’re about to touch type a mistake. It’s always annoyed me that I often read what I think I wrote rather than what’s on the page. At least it sounds like I’m not alone.
Posted it because I know the feeling. One of my sentence I know I wrote the word “salve”. Posted the game out and everyone was laughing because instead of salve it was written as slave. To be honest I have no clue where the word slave came from. I know I my mind I wrote salve and I never see the word slave anywhere no matter how many times I read my sentence. Lols, the human mind is such a weird place…
This is why we do need to have another set of eyes to view our work…