Agree but it is a lot more then a couple annoyingly
Sure but without a poll itâs also hard to say how many - and even then polls in a closed group are not an ideal way to make creative decisions. Doomscrolling through a loud minority agreeing is not unusual, once a popular take emerges in a thread opponents often wonât argue against it.
This is how we have such bangers as âROâs initiating is sexual harassment and always makes people uncomfortableâ (which it doesnât, as a poll later proved and then ITFO came out and who knew? It took off).
This forum is not exempt from bias and exaggeration.
Anyway, everyone has permission to design safe, inclusive, happy dating sim without any struggles or discomfort, sexuality or gender.
But letâs not make it entirely about what people say they want otherwise. People want different things.
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Re playersexual vs bisexual, itâs never occurred to me to consider characters available to all genders as straight/gay based on what gender Iâm romancing them as, even if they donât talk about their bisexuality (I wonder if it makes a difference if a character does talk about it but not on every playthrough?). Itâs very helpful to have my eyes opened to a completely different way of thinking about game characters: itâs a lot of food for thought.
It does make me feel a bit strange, though. It makes me think about how when I was younger I felt an awkward pressure to shoehorn mentioning that I thought some celebrity or another was hot in conversation so I could feel correctly âlegibleâ in whatever way. Coming out is often exhausting and stressful (at least in real life), and itâs never-ending; sometimes, maybe, thereâs a level of escapism in characters and PCs understanding that theyâre bisexual without needing to discuss it, even if thatâs not accurate to real life communication.
I think that is how I thought about it when writing characters romanceable by any gender, who didnât happen to mention that they had a past partner whose gender differed from the PCâs, or who didnât say that they think a person of XYZ gender is hot - that it was neat to have a setup where we were all operating with the understanding that this was a cast of bi romanceable characters. But if that isnât something that is really widely understood that way at all, itâs clearly something I need to mull over some more.
Which isnât to say that bisexual characters who do talk about their orientation a lot, or have past experience with characters of other genders, is necessarily less escapist. Iâm a broken record on âthere isnât one right way of doing itâ, heh. But it is interesting thinking about the various implications about whether an orientation is marked/unmarked, considered a norm in a setting, etc.
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Yeah, as a bi person I also hate the bi people must talk about their experience thing,.
Beacause:
A. They might not have that much experience. Bi/pan is not promiscious or dependent on having any experience at all.
B: They might not be the type of personality who talk about their experience for a varity of reasons.
C. Readers are going to to read bi/pan people as player sexual anyway so there is no point in catering to the type of readers who make these kind of claims. The root is almost always biphobia. They have this unspoken idea of what a bi/pan person is. Even if they are bi themselves.
D. In real life I sure a f⌠do not mention that I am bironmantic in any way shape and form. Sure my closest friends know because we sometimes talk identities, but my colleges? My ordinary friends? No they don´t because it just never come up, it is not relevant and I do need to mention it in anyway shape or form.
The only case where I ever consider a character playersexual is when the characters sexual/romantic history changes in accordence with the mc. If it does not do that the character is not playersexual and quite frankly if you say they are you are 100% guarenteed to invalidate some bi/pan person lived experience.
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There seems to be an assumption in this discussion that playersexuality is bad. I donât think it is. Of course representation is important, but itâs also nice for there to be characters onto which we can all project our own specific desires.
I find it especially easy to assume playersexuality with characters that are gender-variable. Of course, being gender-variable doesnât mean there can be no fixed aspects to their identity (some of my favorite gv characters are asexual or monogamous, for example), but it does suggest to me that the author is okay with me meeting them in the middle in the act of creation and enjoying the character in whatever way suits my needs at the moment.
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I do not think playersexuality is bad.
A character identifying themselves as gay/straight depending on the players gender = playersexual because they sexuality changes, they are still also straight and gay though.
A character whose dating history change depending on the player gender = player sexual.
Character who gender changes depending on whatever. Debatable if playersexual is the best term, but understandable.
None of the above is bad.
A character with a set gender and set past who just doesn´t discuss their bisexuality or visible show it. Straight up offensive to not call them bisexual. It is deeply rooted in the unstated fact that all bi/pan people is promoscious and have kissed/dated lots of people plus showe their attraction in people face. It overlooks bi/pan people who are just private with their dating life. It overlooks bi/pan people who are mostly attracted to one gender thus mostly discuss that gender and it overlooks bi/pan people who are akward and new to the dating scene, not to mention that it overlooks bi/pan people who might have other identity factors which intersect with the sexuality or which is more pressing to discuss.
Edit because I forgot a not 
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Having one or two characters like that? No problem. But room full of bisexuals and all of them are especially private people who donât discuss dating and sex with each other and even with their partner? Across several games, as a trend, without it ever being established as a trait?
No, I donât think I can agree that itâs biphobia to call it playersexual.
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It feels strange that a character like, say, Alistair from Dragon Age is someone who romances only female PCs but (I think?) doesnât ever specify that he isnât into a male PC or any other male character, is perceived and marketed as a straight character because he is available for female PCs, where a character romancing any gender sometimes seems sort of⌠considered straight/gay until proven otherwise, and may get assigned the fictional orientation of âplayersexualâ. Which doesnât feel quite right. I personally dislike the âplayersexualâ label as applied to bisexual characters because it feels like itâs referring to bisexual characters as objects whose orientation exists solely for player gratification rather than a part of their self (whether or not it gets directly discussed onscreen).
I am probably getting too much in the weeds. I find the way bisexual characters are sometimes talked about can get a bit odd and alienating. Iâm pleased that, at least, thereâs been some progress from âa mostly/entirely bi cast is shallow/unrealisticâ that was floating around a lot a few years ago. I think broadly discussions are more friendly towards queer characters in general, including bisexual ones, which is heartening.
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The article I linked connects this to many of the early beliefs and assumptions of publishers in gaming and the reluctance of them to fully support inclusionary decisions.
This is not the situation with CoG, HC and HG, but as terms and phrases are used cross-industry and with peopleâs background including games such as DragonAge: Origins, such awareness is needed to communicate our individual design decisions.
I feel it is important not to use âplayer-sexualâ as a term of art when discussing this in developer diaries and WiP threads ⌠I also feel strongly about trying to move beyond the past and making inclusionary decisions in my writing of IF, where I can.
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Iâd just like to remind he doesnât say he isnât into male PC⌠because male PC is not able to flirt with him 
and thus get rejected.
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With the risk of slightly derailing the thread, how do I write someone straight so they are perceived as straight? I have been thinking about this since I made a flippant comment here a few days ago, and I am honestly stumped. The only thing I have managed to come up with is all tied to fear of being perceived as coming on to someone of the same sex or loudly proclaiming that they are, indeed, not interested. However, should I read a character like that, I would immediately assume that they were closeted as hell, because why else bring something that specific up?
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Iâd be willing to open a new thread with this as the topic if you want?
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dunno, make sure they are wearing a Yankee hat? scratch themself if they are male? announce having had a bf or Gf previously or something?
(Before I get yelled at, Iâm joking also its a Golen Girls Jokes 
)
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Hmmm no need at the moment; part of the reason why I wrote this comment was to challenge the assumption that every characterâs default is perceived as straight unless otherwise proven in text, and how one would go about proving straightness in text since that is somehow assumed to be not needed.
In short, it points out that a text reading is very much rooted in the bias of the reader.
(If this sound testy or anything, that is NOT my intention! I am just in a rather autistic brainspace at the moment and I am not sure how things are perceived, so thank you so much for checking if I wanted a new thread <3)
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In that case, I feel one of the answers is to write the character in a situation where a stereotypical âstraightâ characteristic is displayed (by the character or others with them) or two that is then challenged and allows the character to set their sexuality and orientation boundaries.
Something like a group of the characterâs friends wolf-whistling an opposite gendered individual, and the character in question here, not participating in whistling. The characterâs companions then call them out for not being part of the âgroupâ and then this character can state their attraction for the opposite gendered individual without wanting to sexually harass themâŚ
This is totally of the cuff, but I think it gets my points across.
isnât thatâŚhmâŚbad for the straight though? As in, you can only recognize a straight by their gross behaviors or something? I mean, not every straight person is alikeâŚor do things like catcall and stuff like that.
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And this is exactly my point on how hard it is if we demand written proof for things like that, since most things people see as âtypicalâ is often harmful stereotypes or what could be perceived as unnatural preaching.
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Also, it still wouldnât rule out them being bi.
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I think we are approaching âAre you writing how the world is (according to how you perceive it) or how you want it to be?â
Does heteronormativity exist in your world or do you want to erase it? Do you leave problematic elements in your book or do you sanitize it as much as you can?
There are no right answers, of course.
But behaviours that are just a reaction to heteronormativity are a part of the portrayal of sexuality. Sexuality and gender, as we understand them today, donât exist independently of the realities we live through, theyâre informed and contextualized by the biases we have.
For example, Malin, this is also a good example of bias but from queer lenses - a man can be insecure and straight after all 
Thatâs another stereotype, the stereotype that if a straight man is visibly uncomfortable with queerness heâs secretly in the closet himself. Thereâs an element of wishful thinking there, on our part, that someone unkind to us is fighting with themselves as much as they are with us.
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is it really a stereotype though, when there were real cases like that documented during human history? for example, there were some serial killers like that who targeted Gay men in the gay community.