Got repetitive stress pain in my wrist, which is no good – but still plugging along trying to finish Ch 2. Here’s a bit I wrote earlier this month, where you get to hear the perspective of one of the Hegemony’s otherwise least sympathetic representatives:
I have exactly inverse reaction. When I watch that type of clutter all info wip title and worse the word count I dont open that thread.
I know is popular but if only author cares is how many words they wip has. That is a wip author that clearly doesnt want my feedback.
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I don’t think an author who includes a wordcount in their thread title necessarily only cares about wordcount; they may know that some people do but not actually care about it much themselves (that’s me, hello! though I’m only a sample of one). I do think it’s possible to get in one’s head about the aspects of a game or WIP marketing that might draw in more players, and again I include myself in that anxiety. (I don’t think you’re doing that @KZV by the way; I get what you’re saying in that you’d like more info at an easy glance.)
Maybe there is a case to be made about expanding the available forum tags, so thread titles have less heavy lifting to do. I don’t know if there’s a limit on how many there can be. At the moment there aren’t any for CoG WIPs either, which might be good to have now that they’re more common.
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The titles of WiP threads have fallen into a sort of consistency for a few reasons…
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First, as Hannah eludes to, the tagging system in the forum software is limited and cumbersome to use. We (meaning the mods) will inquire about any upgrades we do not know about, but as things stand, the tags are hard to use for some and not very expansive. (e,g. there is a hard limit to 3 tags I believe)
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Second, the updated date is almost mandatory both to serve notice of the last update but also to help prevent constant spam of people asking about when the last update occurred. It is against the forum rules, but many people still feel entitled to ask this of authors anyways.
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Third, an author can only provide so much info in a thread title. With long titles and limited layout, it is often boiled down to the most essential info.
These limitations are why getting that first post nailed down is so important.
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Me, as my thread on the topic implies. I really wish there was some kind of official word on this. I’m now in the last editing phase of a game I’ve been working on for four years that has never thrown these errors before recently, and I would really like some reassurance that I’m not going to be turned away from publication because of this sudden influx of ‘recursion errors.’ It is… very anxiety-inducing, and I really have no idea what to do.
I almost feel like it has to be something wrong with randomtest, as I redownloaded the CS files to make the edited copy of my game, and that’s when the problems started as far as I know. I… may just have to sneak one of the older versions in there to run instead and see if I get the same problem. >_<
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@Jaybirdy @Jacic I think it would be wise for you to contact HG and @dfabulich about the recursion issue. It sounds very weird, especially because it’s been unpredictable in some cases. Either you need further information from the source to get your games publication-ready, and/or there’s a ChoiceScript bug making RandomTest act incorrectly. Whichever it is, getting in touch will help resolve both the issue and the anxiety. I totally get the worry but I’m sure it’s perfectly fixable.
I think it’s helpful to think of a first post as the blurb on the back of a book or the description seen on Steam. When I did my Honor Bound thread, I wrote it to match the style of the long storefront description (which meant I also only needed a few tweaks when it came to doing the official blurb later. Hooray!)
This stuff also goes in ebb-and-flow cycles. I remember (puts on slippers, gets cup of tea, sits on porch) when I made my Creme de la Creme thread years ago, putting an update-date on the thread title was unusual and I felt very cool and smart doing it. Now it’s more common than not, and I do think that’s very useful information for players - especially if it’s a very active thread. I’m sure in a few years’ time, other ways of presenting WIPs will be in and out of fashion.
That said… what will never go out of style is:
- writing an interestingly-written, easy-to-grasp explainer about what a player can expect when they click the link
- writing a game that’s engaging, responsive to player choice, and has as few errors as possible
- maintaining steady progress that players can see, via adding to what’s available to play and/or telling players about what the author’s working on
- writing extra short stories, making or commissioning art, sharing lore, and answering questions - with a strong caveat that although many players really love this, it’s important for authors not to get burned out or get sidetracked from (2) and (3) above if they want to finish their project
(and yes there are outliers where an author may not have done some of those things but their game gets a lot of attention, or situations where someone does all those things and it doesn’t* but I’m speaking very broadly. I also don’t want to imply that doing all four of the above is easy - it really isn’t)
*mostly, I think this happens when certain genre or style boxes aren’t ticked but in some cases it’s just unfortunate luck
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Unless your title is a slam dunk to end all slam dunks that manages to perfectly convey both the genre and the overal vibe of your story, I find it pretty essential to have at least a bit of extra information via either tags, labels, a slogan/description, or some funky combination of all of the above. A good opening/blurb is also most welcome. They can be challenging to think of what exactly to put but if you don’t give players enough ideas they’re probably gonna shrug and not want to find out. There are a ton of WIPs and limited hours in a day to read them!
I’ll often click on things out of curiosity, but just as often won’t, and that tends to be if I can’t really tell what I’m looking at.
I personally based how I constructed my thread title off what I liked to see when looking at other WIPs. Knowing when an update happened is meaningful, and sure word count isn’t the be all and end all but some people like to know how deep into the story you are. Finally, I felt it necessary to put genre stuff because… well, I like Drink Your Villain Juice! as a title but on the face of it that more implies comedy than horror, and that was not a blindside I wanted to inflict 
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Just to be clear I wasnt trying to put shade on others way to make threads or that.
Simply all that put labels on the title and word account feels to me like throw holy water to a vampire. I understand that is practical and what younger audiences want, so it is probably a must nowadays.
But still, If I saw those I know that I wont be welcomed so I keep myself away from those to not cause havoc.
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This is a great point. To be fair, I’m not very sure whether/how I am going to get phoenix Rising published, and whether or not Choice Of/Hosted Games would let me. So… yeah. XD
I feel this in my soul.
A good rule of thumb in games: If there is a domesticated animal in your game? It must be pettable. If there is a terrifying hell creature? IT MUST BE PETTABLE.
The Discord is also a wonderful place to find help fixing errors. I usually get answers faster there for things that haven’t already been answered here.
I would play the fuck out of this. Like. legit, bro. Farming sims are my favorite genre.
This is some of the best advice I’ve seen out there for any kind of creative endeavor. That said, I really like the “Read” suggestion best. Because honestly? If you’re not reading in your genre, you’re not learning how to write in your genre. I personally really love my genre, and I read new things in it all the time, and take what I like and leave what I don’t.
Yknow… that’s a good point. o.o I never considered whether the WIP title could cause issues.
I have a banner for the title, but I never considered putting one for each chapter… That’s a good idea!
In regards to the 15th, I don’t really have an exerpt. But if ya’ll wanna see what I’ve been working on, you can check out my playlist on youtube: Code with Me
That said, I haven’t been able to get much done lately. I’m stuck in recurring info hell, making branches that are similar, but JUST DIFFERENT ENOUGH that I can’t just do like, a multireplace on them. It’s tedious and I’m so sick of this section. Ugh.
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I never used to, but I sometimes do now (although not always, it depends on the project.) You know me and I’m not a “wordcount is the answer” person ;). Its there mainly a) to let people know the game is more than a 2 page demo, and b) if the game has had a significant update if anyone is following it. (Or at least that’s how I tend to look at wordcounts in other’s titles.)
I might be getting to that point. It’s getting incredibly frustrating. I guess I’m kind of assuming there’s a bug there somewhere that’s being very difficult to track down, but possibly not given the number of random tests a very short sequence will pass before it fails (I’ve basically been shifting the tester around to only test small sections to try and pin the error down still without success.) I’m sure HG won’t appreciate me making a fuss if it’s just my dodgy code, but still, the weirdness of the number of recursion errors that are being flagged when what I’ve fixed has not been recursion errors in some cases is really strange (and extremely frustrating due to the extra time it adds to work out where the issue really is.)
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I personally hate too long topic titles, because they get truncated (at least on my phone) in the most convenient locations to take a quick glance at them, and if I want to check the update date while I’m reading the topic (or looking at my forum’s bookmarks) but it’s the last element in the title and the forum isn’t showing that to me… it’s findable, but less convenient.
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I really wouldn’t worry - I’ve emailed about code problems I’ve run into before, it’s been been due to my own confusion/needing to do something different to what I was doing, and no one was mean to me 
At worst, it’s something on your end but they’ll be able to tell you what the issue is and you will be free from this cursed recursion thing (and I’d be willing to bet that you and @Jaybirdy aren’t the only people suffering from said curse either)
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We’re over halfway through March, and my goal of completing chapter one is turning out to be a bridge too far. I’ve made steady progress, almost doubling my word count (I was afraid to bring this up), but I only completed one scene. Go figure. Many of those words people won’t even see, but I can say the ‘world’s tallest fire hydrant’ is as fascinating as you might imagine 
Part of the reason forward writing progress has hit a traffic jam is that I’ve been deep into fleshing out my character profiles, and several new characters will get introduced in upcoming scenes. What are your processes for outlining characters? Do you create extensive profiles? I’d be interested in checking out what other writers do to craft their compelling characters. Care to share?
I’m not sure if we’re still sharing excerpts from our stories, but here’s a little snippet from part of my character creation scene if you’d like to check it out.
Summary
As the gentle hum of life and love enveloped the newborn, ${player_xhe} experienced muted sounds, soft warmth, and the first faint stirrings of connection. Nestled against the comforting heartbeat of ${player_xir} mother, Astrid, the infant knew only the tender cradle of arms and the instinctive act of feeding, ${player_xir} tiny mouth latching on in an innate rhythm of life’s sustenance.
Yet, beneath this cocoon of nascent bonding, a thread of tension pulled taut, fraying with the sharp intrusion of a child’s voice. “Mama, why is there so much blood?” Freyja’s innocent query pierced the tranquility, her small hand stained with a startling crimson that should not have marred such a sacred scene.
The shift was palpable as Tove’s experienced calm shattered into urgent action, her voice slicing through the room’s erstwhile peace. “Everyone out! Now!” Her command brooked no delay, her hands moving with practiced haste beneath the blankets that swathed Astrid, revealing a harrowing truth as scarlet bloom marred the linens, a stark contrast to the life newly birthed.
In the ensuing chaos, the newborn felt pressed even closer to Astrid’s chest, her heartbeat a rapid staccato against ${player_xir} ear, a lullaby fraying at the edges. The door clanged shut, sealing off the wails and confusion of siblings too young to comprehend the gravity of their mother’s plight.
Steinar, laced with panic, sought reassurance, his questions faltering into silence under Tove’s sharp rebuke. “Shut up, or you can leave too!” she snapped, her focus unwavering as she directed him to fetch more rags, her hands staunching the relentless flow threatening to steal Astrid away from them.
Through the haze of satiation and the murky veil of drowsiness, the infant sensed the shift in Astrid’s embrace, her strength waning, her breathing shallow and labored. Yet, she clung to the act of feeding, a last bastion of motherhood, even as her vitality ebbed.
The room seemed to dim from the encroaching embrace of sleep and the looming specter of loss. Tove’s urgent ministrations, Steinar’s clasped hands, the mingled scent of iron and fear—all painted a portrait of a joy brutally interrupted, a family teetering on the brink of irrevocable change.
As the baby’s eyelids fluttered closed, the last sensory threads tethering ${player_xim} to consciousness were the rhythmic cadence of Astrid’s fading heartbeat and Tove’s fervent pleas, echoing as if from a distance. “Astrid, stay with us, please!”
A sob wrenched from Steinar’s chest. “Please, my love… don’t leave us. We need you. I need you!”
The world faded to black, not with the gentle descent into slumber but with the ominous curtain of uncertainty, leaving all to wonder—would this beginning also mark an end?
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You do have a fan base, Mara. Your betas did have some good stuff going on, so that’s a start. Even if that doesn’t automatically translate into a big fan base, it’s a byproduct of your hard work. Every master was once a student. One day I hope you’ll publish a HG and become that master.
A true master goes for quality, not quantity (i.e. word count).
It is this desire to support the writers that I write these reviews. They have supported me, Eiwynn, Hannah and others on this forum. And Max, Manon, Mathbrush, Tabitha, Joey Jess, Sophia, pinkunz and others on the intfiction forum. So it’s only good that I support them in return. If it’s a fight, then let us fight together, not alone.
Somehow Mara’s fan fiction did manage to take off, and it may lead to some original work next time?
From what I know, that event-based micromanagement isn’t that easy to pull off in IF in general, so your worries are indeed true. No fear, find something else instead!
Game jams are always a good place to show your work (more on that later). However, running the Halloween jam at the same time as Ectocomp is a bad idea since all the focus is on Ectocomp, which means little attention.
I’m raising my hand.
My gut feel says: Go ahead.
It’s about to (later in the year, if my schedule actually is feasibly right enough).
Yay for everyone who put up their snippets for display!
Good that you are preparing us for what to expect ahead of time.
That Yin and Yang of writing IF… and talent is what gets you there, tenacity is what keeps you staying there. Thanks for the reminder Leia!
The journey. As for the trail walking, oh no.
You’ve been practicing, which sounds great.
That’s a wonderful idea!
Hope you recover soon!
The thread title, apart from being more genre specific, needs to present to the reader exactly what it is inside the tin. So wordcount, updates? Reserve them for specific posts. Keep things short and sweet and to the point.
Alas, due to software limitations, we have number 1. Number 3 could be addressed by the first post. Number 2 is really a chicken and egg situation.
It’s in the description, the back of a book or the box of the video game. This is basically what everyone expects nowadays. Then again, with so many people starting WIPs of their own and expecting to tick all the boxes, so many WIPs get crashed and burned, with few seeing a release. Let’s hope that the success rate only goes up from here.
Just the right amount of information please. And yes, Drink Your Villain Juice suggests comedic horror, a la Eat the Eldritch.
What other pieces of IF have you done? Maybe that will be a good starting point.
Now of course I haven’t been giving that frequent updates, but that’s because I did submit something to the Revival Jam. It’s in Twine, and it is complete. This is my first ever completed piece of IF I did. So I finally joined the group of authors who have at least one completed thing out and released in the wild. It took quite a long time, but here we are.
Also, Maverick Hunter is now available to be played directly from itch.
As part of the so-called new generation of IF authors, I have agreed to become a member of the Neo-Interactives Webring. I am not directly affiliated with them, but those that are in the webring are those in said new generation. There are instructions there if you want to be part of this thing.
For those who want a snippet, here’s one. This one is mostly object descriptions from the stuff I submitted. If you have a keen eye, you will spot some familiar references:
Snippet for this month
On inspecting the basket of mangoes:
This is a basket filled with mangoes. 21351 of them to be exact. How did so many mangoes fit in this basket, you can’t tell.
You search through the basket, and at the bottom of it you find another note.
On reading the note:
You read the note. The handwriting is exactly the same as the previous note that you already have.
It says, “You must defeat me to stand a chance”.
What does that mean? You keep the note.
On inspecting the walls of the laboratory:
You inspect the walls. They are blazed with none other than the logo of Dr Syrup.
On one of the walls it is written, in scrawly handwriting, “Andrew Plotkin Lives.”
On another wall it is written, “Sheng Long was Here.”
That’s probably enough for now. More to come.
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…literally part of my worldbuilding (and one of my villains’ origin story)
If I need to track stats, I make a TTRPG-style character sheet, but it is its own hassle (especially if you don’t have a sheet template ready) and not necessarily a very useful idea (apart from being entertaining if I’m in the mood, which, of course, is important for the writing process in its own way).
Of course, I also have no idea whether or not my characters are compelling.
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Those are really cool to see. Thanks for sharing! Those storyboards are awesome, how do you make them? What is the spreadsheet outlining? I’ve heard of people using them, I haven’t before, (seems too much like work 
) but I can see how they might be helpful for scene and tracking variables, character interactions, etc.
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I… draw them? (With a couple of programs and a plethora of reference pictures.) They’re more character studies than storyboards though.
It’s an achievement table, but since they’re story achievements, it doubles as a plot point checklist.
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I usually start with thinking about the role a character will play in the game, and then some very broad strokes/archetypes. When I was coming up with Honor Bound characters, I knew I wanted to have a character who was a single parent/boss who was a respected scientist, for example, and a teacher, and another bodyguard; I filled in personality elements along with the plot and backstory, and kept in mind a few traits that I’d been wanting to write (eg for Matia, I knew I wanted to write a blunt, outdoorsy person, and that I needed to have a couple of characters closely connected to the town, so I went for that combination). I tend to do that very loosely - discussing with my wife, making notes, usually on paper, and thinking a lot while walking. I took time to write about how each of the characters related to each other in order, and how they respond to or make romantic advances.
But a lot of their development came through outlining their storylines and the ways in which they can shift in response to the PC’s actions. So by the time I came to start writing I had a strong sense of who they were and how they behaved (and thanks to my experience with writing Noblesse Oblige, I was more confident imagining them visually).
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Well your character studies are very cool, and your artistry is impressive. I wish I could create something like that for my characters, instead I’ve been relying on AI image generators to create visuals of my characters. While it is helpful to see the characters, turned out to be more trouble than I anticipated to get something in the look and style I was envisioning. I had never used it to create an image before, so I fell down that rabbit hole for awhile playing around with it.
While I tend to do pretty extensive (I think) outlining of my character’s before placing them into the story, I’m finding as I write and they interact with other characters that I learn a ton of new information about them. I think about them constantly while working my day job too, and I find I jot down a lot of little tidbit throughout the day that I’ll incorporate into their profiles when I get home.
I’m not sure if this is a groundbreaking idea, but maybe it’ll help someone like me that might struggle with maintaining a character voice, especially when early in the story or if you have a ensemble cast like my story is turning out to be. I’ve begun creating sample dialogue scene for each of the characters in which they are expressing strong emotions. I’ve found it helps to dial in their particular character. Here’s some examples:
Summary
Extreme Joy
“Oh, come on, Hollvin. Look at them?” Umma gestures out over the vista far below them at the birds of prey wheeling on the mountain updrafts. “Look at how free they are. Don’t you want to feel that too?” Her eyes emerald eyes sparkling. Hollvin shook his head, eyes wide. Umma looked at him, shook her wild blonde hair, laughed, turned, and threw herself off the waterfall, arms wide like wings, a shout of pure, free joy following her as she fell. “Whoooo,” just before splashing into the pool many dozens of feet below, “Chicken!”
Extreme Sadness
Umma blinked rapidly as she watched her friends’ backs retreating, abandoning her rash plan. “Spineless goat rutters!” she yelled after them, voice breaking.
Alone in the wooded glade, “Stupid friends,” she muttered as she kicked a rock and sat heavily on a fallen log. She pulled her knees up, hugging them tightly. “Who needs those cowards,” she angrily wiped at her eye and buried her face in her knees.
Extreme Love
Umma and Hollvin sat upon the rocky ledge, the sky exploding in brilliant color. Umma suddenly grasped his hand, squeezing it tightly to her chest. “Thanks for coming up here with me,” she looked at him sideways, her smile crooked. “You know I’ll always watch out for you, baby brother?”. “Don’t call me that; you’re only a few minutes older,” he said, pulling back his hand. She laughed, tousled his hair, and squeezed him tightly before whispering “Baby brother” into his ear and laughing.
Extreme Anger
The door flew open, and Umma stalked in, Emerald eyes aflame. “Can you believe what they had me do at school today?” she sputtered. Hollvin shrugged cautiously. “Cook! They had us learn to make bread!” “Well, that’s not so bad, is it? Did you get to eat it too? I love bread,” replied Hollvin, and he licked his lips. “What? Umm, yes, we ate it, that’s not the point. Do they make you learn how to make bread?” Hollvin shook his head. “Exactly, it’s not fair,” she said, smashing her fist on the table and sloshing Hollvin’s milk in his mug.
Typical Curse
“Eld’s sweaty sack!” Umma spat as the enemy’s fire arrow narrowly missed her braided hair, blazing past into the stockade.
Frequent Phrase
“You don’t get into the Last Halls by being meek!” Umma declared before turning and rushing headlong into the fray.
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I figured this is a pretty good place to ask this question. Have any CSG works ever been written in first person? I know second person is the standard, but I’ve been thinking of toying with first person and wondering if there any examples already written that I’ve just missed.
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