This looks like a chance for me to adversite the awesomeness of tomboy characters 
: cis female characters who don’t care about any traditionally/stereotypically feminine interests or appearances. It’s cool when games let you choose between man, woman, or non-binary, but there’s just one problem. It often seems to emphasize how feminine women are and how masculine men are, even though everyone isn’t like that in real life. You don’t have to be non-binary to break out of gender role boxes.
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Go figure, I guess I’m easily trolled.
I don’t know what I don’t know sometimes. Like I thought xe/hir were things Zachary Sergi made up for his games to be inclusive until I googled neopronouns over my lunch break.
I’m superficially aware of transfolk and furries. Only because I’ve known them in real life. It never occurred to me that someone might prefer to be called it because they feel like something other than human.
Full disclosure, I come from an evangelical, Republican background. I only really started to become aware of stuff like this in college. It took a while for me to shake that off and broaden my horizons, and I’m still discovering new things.
Hell yeah. I loved Brienne from the Song of Ice and Fire books. I’d love to see more characters like her.
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Just a reminder, we have a trans discussion thread here
https://forum.choiceofgames.com/t/trans-discussion-in-and-out-of-choice-games/21305
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I really love your idea! 
I’m Vietnamese, a nonbinary trans guy (dfab), neurodivergent but have nothing official diagnosed (not that I don’t have a good idea of what I have, just as a full time student who takes public transportation everywhere I don’t have the time or money for it) and I’m so sick of either seeing characters I relate to be demonized or killed off or just not seeing them at all (I’m also otherkin I think partly because of never being able to see myself in media growing up and partly because of being neurodivergent)
I started my own project directly because of it and made the first (and arguably ‘canon’) RO nonbinary and Vietnamese and I’m thinking of making at least one of the other ROs autistic. I don’t feel like my project is diverse enough though, even though all my ROs and currently none of my characters are white, but if I try harder I’m worried about being called pandery or making token characters. I’m just trying to look out for ways my writing might be excluding if you know what I mean? The first iterations of my ROs and most of the other supporting characters all basically had the same body type, which I’m trying to fix, and so far there aren’t any characters who are officially disabled or mentally ill (having an RO be autistic is still only a strong maybe). I don’t want brownie points or anything, I just want to be able to reflect the world that I live in (but just add magic and talking cats and stuff) and I’m not satisfied with what I’ve made yet
I’m also worried about writing stereotypes partly because I personally fall into some of them? I’m a gay guy who happens to be feminine and have the “gay hair style” (with bleached hair on top and the rest dark) and I’m one of those Asian people who have to take photos of their food whenever they go out to eat
Anyways I’ve completely derailed and forgotten what I was originally trying to get at but good luck on this! It’s tough finding a good balance
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I do
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Good luck with this !!!
This is awesome—I’m already learning a lot!
@Laguz Thanks for the enthusiasm! I don’t know how exactly I’m going to organise this project (private messaging?) but you’ve clearly got a great deal of insight and experience to share. Can’t wait to work with you!
@Harley_Robin_Evans Thanks, at this point the story itself is simple, more a vehicle for creating an inclusive character than anything else. Open to change if anyone has a better idea though.
@cyanide Thanks, and you’re not a terrible writer at all—this was really articulate and definitely an issue to include. Are you interesting in collaborating on writing about this (I mean, you have already but in a story format)?
@Sontra Well it’s more an exploration of inclusive character design, the game is secondary, really. I do want to focus on humanoid characters with diversity because inclusion and how to approach it is the whole point. I am interested in looking at how SF and fantasy interact though, particularly with ideas such as the ‘magical disability’ and being aware of how this impacts readers.
@payroo Thank-you, and thanks for raising my mistake with separating sex and gender. I was thinking of then opening up to inclusive issues with transexual and transgender under ‘gender identification’ but I guess I was just showing how ignorant I am. Which is why I’d really love other people to write certain sections or just, you know, learn, which I still intend to do. I’ll work on fixing that today—anyone got any suggestions? @Laguz Thanks for the correct terms.
@Lavender I do love tomboy characters — or females who don’t follow the gender stereotypes in general. Interested in collaborating on the portrayal of ‘female gender’?
@bobsmyuncle To be honest, I think you can come from just about any background and still have many horizons to break. I won the parent lottery (sort-of) and was raised by very open minded people but still have so much to learn.
@anon86661845 Thank-you! Argh I’m so excited! So much of what you said is exactly why I want to put this together. Would it be alright if I shoot you some PM’s during the course of writing this? Or even just straight-up collaborating?
Yes! I don’t think people are even aware of what they’re doing, they just don’t notice when certain groups aren’t present. Hopefully voicing these kinds of observations will help.
I know exactly what you mean, and your list of inclusive characters puts me to shame!
Writers sometimes have this weird guilt about making diverse characters. There’s also a lot of fear about writing the wrong thing. It’s why I really, really would love something I can refer to that’s honest and written by people who know what they’re talking about.
I think if you remember your readers are the real reason you’re trying to open up your writing you’ll have no problems (um, not you specifically, because you’re clearly very conscious of being inclusive, but people in general).
And I get what you’re saying about stereotypes, sometimes some people have experiences that align (there are seven billion of us) with common ‘portrayals’. The point is, you can show that yes, for me individually these things are true but they stem from who I am, not ‘what’ I am.
This is why I’d love this to have lots of anecdotes and input from others. It’s a community resource more than anything else and I want everyone’s voice to shine through!
Argh I sound so preachy, going to shut up now…
Edit; fixed some bad writing, yikes.
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Unfortunately I’ll have to shoot you down on collaborating. I don’t think I’d be able to juggle two writing projects and school at least not this coming semester, sorry 
I’ll be happy to answer any questions you might have though!
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Not at all, good luck with your project! I will have questions and I’ll try to keep them brief. Thanks for you input!
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Thing is I tried before and failed because of my lack of coding skill. I would love to stick around and if this is really something that you want to work on then I am ready to spend time here and discuss but I really wouldnt want to slow down the project because I suck as such things.
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I think one thing that can help with this is just having multiple characters within the same group, so while some might fit a stereotype more, there’ll be others who don’t. It helps keep it from seeming like the author’s saying that members of a certain group are a certain way.
Another key is for characters to have additional traits beyond any stereotypes. The worst stereotypical characters I see are generally ones whose traits are all defined by whatever group they belong to.
I agree wholeheartedly, and would like to note that the same applies for male characters who aren’t masculine. I never like it when I have a male character but the game assumes he should be more masculine than female characters would be, apart from the gender identity in and of itself.
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This is something I really do want to work on and getting enough people to share their experiences is what’s going to make or break this.
Don’t worry about coding—I’m happy to do all of it! What I want above all else are your observations on representation and what you’d like to see more/less of. Just like in your original post, you made me aware of things that I noticed on a surface level but never gave further thought.
I’d love it if I could ask you questions and if you’re comfortable with writing some small things once I’ve figured out the structure I’d be super happy to have you on board!
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In that case there is no problems. I look up the forum every day so availability wont be a problem on my side.
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I see your point and I really appreciate it but I think my main problem is really trying to get a good balance of those traits. It’s a personal thing mostly because, in my experience, some people make it seem like there’s something wrong with you personally if you fall into the stereotypes. When a character mostly subvert stereotypes, if there’s something they do that does fall into a stereotype, it’s treated as a bad thing that that character is ashamed of. If it’s the other way around where character is stereotypical and does something that subverts it, it’s treated as their redeeming feature. It’s a complicated situation of both reclaiming parts of myself that I’ve been told I should be ashamed of and learning how to write characters who don’t have to what I’m doing and being aware of my own privileges when writing characters I don’t personally relate to
And also there’s a bit of worry about accidentally making my characters too similar to other preexisting characters but that’s just from my 10th grade english teacher (who was awful and took joy in failing her students and nearly got fired at least once for it) putting the debilitating fear of accidental plagiarism in me
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Yeah, I think this is an important and complicated issue. I’ve mostly noticed this with gay male characters (because this is where my personal experience is) that while some authors just lean on stereotypes, there’s others who try so hard to avoid them that you get a bunch of extra-masculine anti-stereotypes, which becomes a stereotype in itself. It can also erase those of us who do have some of those traits. There’s nothing wrong with a person who happens to have some stereotypical trait; there’s no duty to defy all of them. Nor is there anything wrong with a person who doesn’t conform to stereotype. One thing to consider is how the characters themselves feel about these stereotypes as they relate to them personally. But this is where it’s important to also show that nobody is only a stereotype. We all have interests or habits that have nothing to do with such identities. And why I think larger casts of diverse people do have a lot of value in making it possible to both subvert and reclaim the same stereotype in the same work.
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This is exactly the nuance and subtleties that people without first-hand experience can so easily miss or struggle with. There can be a pressure to be overwhelmingly non-conforming so that in the end characters don’t end up as people but (well meaning but misguided) political/ideological statements.
Would you be okay with me asking you about this sort of thing and including it in game? You’ve clearly got some nuggets of wisdom about this as well as general masculine portrayals.
As a writer that this sort of information is gold. It’s all about unlocking fear and demystifying the ‘other’ so we can create characters that are relatable. I’m sounding like a broken record but I find this so interesting and informative!
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I understand that so much. I’m a pansexual guy in the closet but even though I hate stereotypes and I look like the exact opposite of what people would assume I am based on my sexuality, I f*cking love Madonna and sometimes I even catch myself walking around with “broken” wrists.
Stereotypes exist because some people does fit into the category, some people I grew up with as proof of this. This shouldnt mean that we should base our opinions of a group because of that and especialy if its about harmless behavior like that. I’m not ashamed of my behaviors that are stereotypical because they are harmless. Its not as if I was something harmfull like a religious fanatic. I dont use the stereotype to make my opinion of religious people and growing up surrounded by religious elders only confirm to me that some fit the stereotype and some dont.
In the end I think we should recognise that stereotypes exist for a reason but we shouldnt let that cloud our judgement when dealing with peoples otherwise its just being close minded and nobody like that.
Edit: TSSL nailed the explanation
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This seems really cool! I love what you’re doing here and what you’ve already gotten in the game (seems like a really nice platform to start from and, just from a purely writing standpoint, I love the personifications of Life, Death, and the Narrator that you’ve created!)
Well it’s definitely interesting to me, so hmm… Advice/Resources?
Well, my main stash of info is on asexuality because I’m still trying to find out exactly where I fall in the ole ace umbrella- so I do some research on it and have stumbled upon some very interesting articles/resources that have helped me out when learning about all this, so here’s two that might help you out too? (They’re both pretty simple/broad explanations of topics, but they were useful to me nonetheless. 
)
The first is a Tiny Dinosaur in a Sweater Giving A Very Basic Overview of Asexuality (One of the first things I found pertaining to asexuality, so if you already know what it is it might not be all that helpful, but it’s still cute and a good resource for simple, overview-type explanations).
Also, this is A Video on 7 Common Misconceptions of Asexuality (this person’s voice can get kinda quiet at times just a heads up in case you need to turn your volume up.)
Like I said before neither of them go very in-depth but… well, they helped me out a lot in the past so I figure they might be of use to you? Maybe, I hope so, at least.
Good luck!
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Thanks RenaB!
Haha, Life can sometimes be unfair but Death treats everyone equally…that’s my sorry and underdeveloped basis for the characters. I’ll give them more life once I’ve really thought about it.
These resources look fantastic! I can’t wait to put everything together and these will help no end. Thanks for sharing them!
Also, can I just shamelessly fangirl for a second and say I’m so excited about your two projects? 
Argh they’re so awesome! Sorry. Squealing session over.
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It’s a good basis, and, hey, everyone has to start from somewhere, right?
Plus I’m also really curious about the Narrator, I feel like since they’re apparently not only a character but also a visible character I’d be interested to see if the MC can at all talk with them at any given time? It’d be cool to have a discussion with the person dictating your entire life.
(Although it could be awkward, too… “What do you do for work?” “Watch you.” “Oh… What about free time? Got any hobbies?” “Watching you.” “Ah… I… I see… W-well, how about when I’m not doing anything, like sleeping? What about then?” “That’s when I watch you sleep.” “…Is… that so…” “…”)
Anytime! I’ll be sure to share some more when I can dig them out of my files of old resources. (Hmm… I know there was a blog where people would ask and answer questions on demisexuality in specific that was really helpful because it had a page that pointed people to other sources, I’m gonna see if I can find that again for you!)
Ahaha, thank you so much! I absolutely adore your other work Nest of Snakes- so I’m super excited to see what you do with this as well! The project itself seems super unique and like a really nice idea to not only explore yourself but to create for other authors to explore as well!
EDIT: Aha! Found the blog! Confessions of a Demisexual, one of the very first things I found regarding not just asexuality as a whole but a specific part of it underneath the umbrella. Also here’s their list of resources.
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