@HarrisPS
Yes! More nuanced choices for those wishing to play as a trans MC is great!
Re- word count - I love short games like Creatures Such as We, but I admit that as a consumer, I’m likely part of the problem for writers, as the bigger the word count the more promising the game appears to me. Blame my one true IF love, Tin Star, I think it created this expectation for me that more words = epic instant must-buy.
Yes it does. Unless you have a organised a separate contract with COG, you are not even allowed to ask for donations or run ads. I know because I have free games written in choicescript on itch which are not going to HG, therefore I cannot make any money at all from them. Basically if a CSG is released outside of HG it either needs to be free or with a paid contract for COG.
You can make the access “restricted” by asking for a closed beta on the forums, but there must be a way the general public can access CSG content in some way without paying.
If you feel there is a reason to and the author is deliberately (or even through ignorance) restricting access long term. Sorry I’m not at all familiar with the game being referenced but if the pateron owner is still making money from something that hasn’t had any public releases since Jan then that sounds like something to be looked into.
That’d be some truly bizarre way to shoot oneself in the foot and steer a bunch of people away from making games using your programming language and into arms of alternatives which has no such limitations. (Twine etc) In fact, i can’t really think of any other programming language which tries to impose such limitations on how the programs produced with it are distributed, in terms of access etc.
For that matter, i can’t find any mention of such limitation and/or warning on the CoG page. Yes, this is a clause buried near the end of one for Hosted Games but it’s nowhere to be seen on pages where it would be logical to put it for people who are not interested in the “we can host these games for you” part of the offer. Starting with the “what is ChoiceScript” etc. Because if the hosting part is in fact “an offer you can’t refuse” then it should be made clear front and center.
No, it literally doesn’t state such requirement. If it does, point me to where it says “for free” there.
Mind you, i don’t question that this is possibly CoG actual policy, if this is what they’ve told you. But in this case, it is not made clear on their web site at all. It’d also make it quite a bit more understandable why some authors would at some point decide to switch their works to alternative platforms, something that didn’t make that much sense to me previously.
If people are concerned about legality around monetising ChoiceScript (from whatever angle) it’s best to address it directly to HG for clarification rather than here where it’s all too easy to turn into a game of telephone.
It’s literally in the licence that comes with the choicescript package that you can only use it non-commercially.
Here is the online link: https://www.choiceofgames.com/LICENSE-1.0.txt
I was talking specifically about the sentence discussed previously. I’ll admit it never occurred to me to check the ChoiceScript license for such limitation because like i mentioned previously, this sort of restriction is borderline absurd and i’d never expect it to be there.
You’re right that the license makes it clear enough, but i think it’s something that should be upfront and center on the “Make Your Own Games” page, if nowhere else.
edit: to make it a bit more on-topic, this is probably another aspect of IF that has changed in the past 10 years – having a “walled garden” kind of arrangement with potential creators was somewhat different when your programming language was the only real option for people with little to no programming experience. But today with similarly simple alternatives which are free of such restrictions (Twine, ink, possibly others i’m not familiar with) and other places which will readily host and/or sell these works, this model may be becoming outdated, if it didn’t already.
There’s also zero financial incentive for COG to outright scare potential authors from using their coding language for their projects with imposed licensing limitations, and yet here we are. Ultimately, it’s just a question which approach will hurt their bottom line more as things around keep changing.
The business perspective here would be both increased number of CS games out in the wilds raising profile of the engine as the platform of choice when it comes to IFs (instead of becoming niche as other solutions take increasing share of this pie) plus a possibility that some of the authors who initially planned to publish their CS game on their own may change their mind on it and ultimately go with COG/HG for visibility and convenience. I.e. same reasons people choose to publish their indie games on Steam and in other stores instead of solely on their own web site, even if it means these stores take their cut.
Anyway, going to end it here, especially since going by the rest of your reply you are familiar with these factors, and we disagree mostly about interpretation.
Not at all from a business perspective. There is zero financial incentive for COG to allow commercial use they have no control over for a coding language they developed.
Which is why some people have gone this route if they choose to commercially self publish and do not want to pay COG for the use of CS. But if you want to publish through HG and gain access to that audience then you’ll need to use choicescript. The situation with selling IF successfully is more complex than it seems as there are pros and cons to both. (Not really a conversation for here.)
To be fair point 4, does say “publish for free” and I thought everyone was aware CS was a CC-NC type language, but yes it could be spelled out more. Most people using it are going to be familiar with HG/COGs and have written/be planning to write for that label. but that’s why it’s always important to at least quickly browse the licencing info on any program you are going to use, especially if commercially 
Anyways, the limited paid licencing of choicescript for smaller commercial projects on particular platforms (like steam) is a more recent change. Previously only large businesses would have been able to afford the full licence. But yes, many people wanting to produce commercial IF outside of HG will likely use a different language that allows commercial use so there is no change there.
I’d argue ChoiceScript is more a game engine than a programming language no matter what it’s called, but maybe that’s just me.
Also yes, you should always check the licensing.
Hi everyone -
The licensing talk is derailing the thread.
Please take it to DM, or better yet, contact CoG support directly to have your concerns and questions answered regarding legalities.
Thank you!
Some general trends in literature have impacted IF gaming in the past 10 years.
The trend that seems to be on everyone’s mind is that Romance, both as a genre and as a story element, is much more acceptable as something not only to expect but to openly talk about and discuss in the general public.
I think this is a generational shift, and one that will evolve as time goes forward.
The game developers who specialize in romance focused games really made an impact in the last decade, and many authors chased the golden ticket they saw being punched for these releases.
As a writer, this means I need to learn how to adjust my themes and plot arcs to accommodate the thirst audiences have for romance.
Another trend of the last decade is what I call the “Game of Thrones” writing trend. This has actually been an ongoing trend for 20ish years in fantasy, but it has definitely crossed over into writing as a whole in the past 10 years.
I am starting to see pushback on this trend pick up steam, but there has not been a trend emerging to replace this, that I’ve seen.
Other trends that I feel have impacted IF in the last 10 years include the “anti-chosen-one” trend where the MC is purposefully written to be anything but the chosen one and also the Mary Sue trope trend, which I feel rears its head now and then.
How I feel about these: My opinion is that there are some classic themes and beats which form a solid core that writers can and should fall back on while writing.
Trying to keep up with the trends will only lead you on a wild goose chase to capture someone else’s lightning in your bottle, and so I feel doing this is a path to frustration and bitterness.
Not least because by the time a game is released, the trends may have moved onto the next big thing. Over the years, the cycling of trends here seems to have become faster (due to more traffic and people being inspired by WIPs as well as released games). It’s much more satisfying to focus on what you really love and feel good about - these games take a lot of work and time to complete, after all.
Blinded me
Yeah this. It takes me out the mood when a heart emoji shows up and the only romance options are those two extremes. It’s popular though, I can’t fault it. I’m just old.
Oh and older HG titles had more of a hobbyist vibe too that I miss. You know, cute little things like the first Infinity book having white borders on images where they were magic wand tooled from a background to make them transparent, or Great Tournament having exactly one image for one enemy, and never showing one for any others.
If we’re talking about IF in general, there’s some academic research going on about a) using IF in education, and b) using natural language processing to decipher player input in parser games. The latter one specifically is new-ish, because the technology didn’t exist before.
Not trying to reopen the licensing discussion, but just wanted to briefly note that this is spelled out pretty clearly in the FAQ – though as the CoG site has grown, the FAQ is less prominent than it used to be.
Ah yes, The Game of Thrones gritty fantasy trend…tho maybe IF is about to change direction, and lean more towards its counterpoint and rival rising book trend, the cosy fantasy led by Legends and Lattes! )((Edit: Oh wait, it’s already starting with “The Bread Must Rise” and “New Witch in Town”))
I wouldn’t describe The Bread Must Rise as particularly cozy.
Apologies, I meant it leans into the trends wish for combining fantasy with more mundane perceived as cosy enterprises, such as being a baker.
There’s also a CoG WIP called The Dragon’s Flagon that’s a cozy fantasy, which is a subgenre I’d definitely like to see more of.
Thanks @Havenstone! I thought I remembered seeing something like this somewhere. I’m not sure the “about us” section is the most ideal place to have this anymore. I know I didn’t think to look there. It’d probably fit better under the publishing options.
I remember playing Neighborhood Necromancer and Marine Raider, both are not too short, but also has a preset PC(s) (if we can count different gender of PC as more than one) and not heavy on the romance. (There is no romance at all for Marine Raider)
