Just to add my two cents about player-sexual characters. As someone who really dislikes labels, and the whole idea of trying to put people into neat little boxes when life is so messy by comparison, I have to say I cringe slightly at games that explicitly ask my MC’s orientation or lack thereof. I get that it can be a tool for gender-fliping ROs, but I would much rather everyone be player-sexual (or better yet, varied in their orientations, though that’s hard to accomplish) than gender-flipping based on the MC’s sexuality.
Even if you don’t use it as a gender-flipping mechanism, or lock any romance options due to that choice (which would make that choice irrelevant anyway), it forces the player to define who their character is before they ever meet the romance options. I know some people will head-cannon their MC as straight or gay no matter if the choice is put to them explicitly or not, but a lot, like me, would not. It’s easier and more natural for me to “discover” my male MC is attracted to another guy than to define him in advance as gay, and then only really liking a female character as a romance option, and having to settle for a less attractive male option, or think “well, maybe he’s bi”, which feels so wrong, like betraying the MC or something. If you don’t ask the player the MC’s sexuality, it gives the player more freedom to decide/discover who the MC is attracted to depending on the ROs’ personalities, without any preconceptions.
That widens the potential romance option pool for the player, if only subconsciously. Now when you’re planning out the romance options for your game, instead of thinking that “a lesbian MC has 2 options”, you can just say “a female MC has 4 options”. (While still making sure there are enough options for people who head-cannon their MC’s orientation from the start, of course.)
Well it all depends on where you are on the spectrum, for me it was fairly clear by age 15-16, or so, that I would find watching paint dry more interesting than “getting physical or mushing faces” with girls, pushing me very firmly to the gay end of the scale.
So too with most of my mc’s if it is a question that is going to be asked I’ll most often say that it was boys exclusively who managed to catch my mc’s attention that way.
However when handled properly it is not a question that absolutely needs to be asked of the player, although I’d rather it were asked before the author writes my character “automatically” having the kinds of thoughts about a woman he’d simply never have.
So, in short it doesn’t need to be asked but I’d rather it were asked then the author writing under the assumption that they need to make the mc him/herself as truly bi, since that would exclude truly, super-gay characters (like most of my mc’s) as well.
I’ll just let you speak for me ParrotWatcher Only other thing to springs to mind reading your post was I remember when I actually didn’t marry Elly in Choice of Robots she showed up later with a girlfriend, which was nice to see she wasn’t just interested in girls solely for me
To be honest, so do I. I far prefer just getting all of the options and being able to choose between them. Admittedly, again, it’s probably necessary in some games. Going back to Psy High, there are only three ROs, and so the game needs to find out what gender you’d like them to be. I have also seen games only use the choice of preference to change how characters are viewed (compare “a burly brute of a man” with “a gorgeous hunk”), which can make them more immersive, but I imagine it would take a lot more work.
Yeah, this was quite nice in Psy High: Carl had an ex-boyfriend, and got back together with him when I chose Andrew instead. Admittedly, this does limit the number of bisexuals appearing…
Ideally they should do this in response to character preferences, I certainly like it more, then again even in stories where we must submit to high amounts of railroading I prefer if they at least give my mc a “fake” choice of how to think about certain people as I certainly do not find all men attractive too.
Still I’d rather be asked directly about my mc’s orientation than have the author fall into the trap of thinking they then need to write the mc as an opposite sex leaning bisexual, which is particularly jarring to me.
lol reminds me of what I told a girl once when she was worried I’d check her out in the locker room. “Just because I’m attracted to girls doesn’t mean I’m attracted to you.”
Trust me the guys locker room is way worse in this regard ( of course there were one or two guys there who I did fancy), but most of them, yeah, I didn’t care about seeing them without their clothes on one tiny bit.
Seems to me the authors of games of these sorts have a responsibility not to assume anything at all about the MC, until the input is provided. (Unless it is plot critical of course.) You said it yourself, you don’t find all men attractive. So even if the game does ask about the MC’s orientation, the author should not write the MC “‘automatically’ having the kinds of thoughts about any character he’d simply never have.”
It’s perfectly feasible to describe a RO the same way as any other character, in neutral terms, with no mention of the MC’s thoughts, if they have any. The player is again free to think “my MC totally has a crush on that guy” without the author implying that in any way. (And, after all, people aren’t always instantly attracted the minute they meet someone, even one that fits their image of the “ideal partner”.)
Then when the player shows interest (either by choosing options where their MC is looking at the character in question with thoughts, or picking flirty options, or reacting positively to the RO flirting with them) the author can start writing the MC’s thoughts about it more explicitly in reaction to those choices (especially after the MC commits to romancing that character, i.e. declaring their feelings/kissing or whatever). Then I feel it would be fine to have the characters discuss their orientation if the author wants to include a scene like that.
You can certainly decide in advance that your MC will be gay or straight or bi no matter what, but in my opinion, that should be a head-cannon only, until the player makes their intention clear to romance a specific character. Explicitly asking about the MC’s orientation while creating the character forces the player to make a commitment to that before meeting the ROs, even if that isn’t technically the case in the game.
It’s also useful for making the NPCs “know” that their advances aren’t welcomed; for example, if you play as a lesbian girl, wouldn’t it be annoying or make you cringe that male ROs declared their love for you/tried to seduce you once you reach certain amount of friendship/trust/romance points/etc. with them?
That’s true, but usually players already have a good idea of their MC’s sexuality, and even if they like a RO that’s not the same gender they look for, they pretty much don’t go for their route.
But even if Carl got back with his ex-boyfriend, that doesn’t make him not bisexual; whether bi people date girls/boys/nbs, that doesn’t change their sexuality at all. A bi girl with a boy doesn’t automatically mean she’s now straight, for example.
Yes, yes it is…and its the reason why when I play Bioware games (which I love) I tend to end up not talking to the male characters much because you can accidentally trip the romance flag. Heck my friend did that when he played ME3 and was just trying to be nice to Kaiden, then poof the achievement pops up and things went beyond friendship. Made me laugh that he could finally get what I complained about though lol.
This is something I definitely want to avoid in my game, after all it’s heavily character-driven and a lot of ROs are bi/pansexual. It would be a pity if the player didn’t talk to them because they want to avoid the romance flag (which is annoying if it suddenly pops up and doesn’t let you get out of the route).
All I can do is make the question appear as natural as possible in a conversation, like chatting about past lovers or crushes instead of:
Hey, are you attracted to:
a) Girls! b) Boys! c) Girls AND boys! d) I have never cared for gender, I love who I love. e) Only non binary pals for me, thanks! f) None! Romance is boring!
I don’t know, I think that some NPCs would make advances and others wouldn’t, depending on their personalities. It’s a non-issue in the case of shy males who wouldn’t make the first move anyway. And for males who would, they would get the hint with a single, clear option “Stop flirting with me, I’m not interested.” and then the issue would be dropped. - This also applies to the female options your female character isn’t interested in as well, I don’t quite see what difference it makes whether it’s a male or a female you’re not interested in…
Usually, maybe, but that’s not true for all players, that’s the point. Omitting the character creation orientation choice doesn’t take away your idea of your MC’s sexuality, but it doesn’t force me to impose one on mine until I get to know my character and the others better. Win-win for everyone, no?
Well, of course it depends on their personalities, but there are plenty of circumstances where a shy RO can 'fess up even though they are shy as a mouse.
Eh, I don’t understand you here? I’m not making distinctions between males/females/nb making advances, just that some people would rather have not having to reject ROs of the gender they are not interested in because they have been too chummy with them
Well its not that it can’t be written like that certainly, and Guenevere certainly proves that. I loved how in that game I was able to tell both Arthur and Lance that I’m not into guys and was really blown away by how Jean wrote Arthur’s reaction, in fact because of his reaction I decided that I would champion his world view 100%. That game though is one of only a few I can think of offhand that actually make special mention of the character’s orientation. Choice of Robots has a slight part when I married Elly, Choice of Alexandria when I married the Queen and the Heroes series are the only other ones I can think of off the top of my head that made mention of my character being a lesbian, most of the time it doesn’t have much of an effect sadly…outside of setting gender for some NPCs.
What is so wrong about just giving the option to tell a NPC to stop in the flirting stage?
It’s not that different from rejecting someone that may would have the preferred gender but the MC is still not interested in…having the preferred gender after all is no guarantee that their advances are welcome either.
And a rejection also doesn’t mean that the MC doesn’t like the NPC, just that they prefer a friendship. (That’s why I like friendship paths)
Or ask only as soon as it comes up instead of the start of the game? That way the player can get an idea what kind of MC they are playing before they get asked the orientation question and it still is possible to know how to handle it with other NPCs…is that possible to code?Probably much work if it is.
Sorry I may not have expressed myself correctly, I wasn’t making the distinction between genders either, I was just using the example you gave of a lesbian character. What I meant was that I don’t see the difference between rejecting ROs of the gender you are not interested in, as opposed to the ones that you are not interested in, but that are of the gender you prefer. I would think you would not want to have to reject anybody you are not interested in, period.
You say asking the MC’s orientation is useful for making the NPCs “know” whose advances are welcome or not. First of all, as @Sammysam and @idonotlikeusernames pointed out, NPCs being of the MC’s preferred gender doesn’t mean their advances are welcome either. Second, it depends on how the choice is presented. If it is at character creation, before meeting the ROs (which is what I am objecting to), are the ROs supposed to just know, without being told?
I wouldn’t object to a scene after you’ve met the characters where you can tell them all your orientation if you wish, it would have to be handled well, and I am skeptical it would be entirely satisfactory for players like me, but it’s much better after meeting and getting to know the characters than before.
I’m not sure how what I’m proposing would make it harder for the author. You may be right, I’m currently in the process of writing my first game and don’t have much experience with this medium. But this is the approach I’m going for, and so far it’s coming pretty naturally. (I’ll come back here and warn everyone against this approach if it turns out I bit off more than I can chew!)
Only other thing to springs to mind reading your post was I remember when I actually didn’t marry Elly in Choice of Robots 
she showed up later with a girlfriend, which was nice to see she wasn’t just interested in girls solely for me 
