I love mods, particularly for Stellaris and almost all Bethesda games. That being said I obviously find the straight Dorian mod to be in very poor taste, given his in-game backstory and the fact that it reinforces the myth that any non-straight sexual orientation is somehow a disease or mental illness that is “curable”.
Especially since that shit has apparently reached fever pitch again in Brazil. 
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A friend or two conned me into playing on minecraft servers with a bunch of mods that i eventually was dragged kicking and screaming into liking (eventually), ive played a few stellaris mods with friends that i mostly tolerate (the mods not the friends), and yet i always disable the mods when i play solo.
besides making dorian straight seems messed up (something id rather not get into to avoid cynicism that it will trigger in me for days), what do they plan on doing with his backstory?
Church camps for gay people…i assumed that ended in civilized society when electroshock therapy did in the ninteys and would never see the light of day again. it seems adding Brazil to the places im never going to visit, wich is kinda depressing.
moving on i think Gay representation is kinda sorta improving in games not at a comfortable enough pace for me Granted ive made due with what they have done in the Bi department wich seems to becoming the more popular choice by game makers it seems.
Edit: I myself am Bi so this may be why i can deal with it.
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To be honest I don’t think I’ve ever played Skyrim and Oblivion without mods, of course some mod authors carry some things too far, as do some game developers. But then there’s nothing forcing me to use any of that crap.
I think the smart choice is just to make all ROs bisexual that way everyone gets to be happy
That gave me a boner; and the fact that you’re writing my favorite WIP on dashingdon is the icing on the cake. Nothing’s like censorship to ruin a nice thing. Whatever happened to “live and let live” and “oh I don’t like this, I’m gonna ignore it/stay away from it” anyway?
For me I don’t overly care about the core topic to a great extent, but I’m also not interested in romance much to begin with (also straight male so I’m not a minority) so I don’t think I make a great example. Overall I don’t think it’s a big deal unless the game somehow focuses on the notion. For example, Choice of Romance is a game where I expect there to be some gay options for those who want it. Cuz romance is kinda the premise. But a game like oooh, Diabolical, it’s not one where I think it’s necessary for the purposes of the plot. That said, I’m not against them being there either so long as it’s not shoved down my throat (without good reason).
The main thing I don’t understand with the OP is why there need to be exclusively gay characters in CoG’s when there are so many characters of both genders who can work with whatever the PC is playing as? You can argue that makes them bisexual, but isn’t the world in CoG’s rather shaped by your character? Meaning that it could very well be your character’s gender which determines their sexuality rather than them being happy whatever they happen to lay their hands on down your pants? If you’re generous and say the latter is the way to go, then gay characters are very much represented in just about every CoG where romance exist as a thing. And if you’re not generous, I’d argue it a semantics without a word of god to confirm or deny it either way. That said, I don’t see a problem with implimenting them either if that’s what you wanna do when writing up a setting anymore than it is to write up a straight/bi/insert; I just don’t get why there must be more of it.
Well, it is a big deal to those of us that it concerns. You’re not likely to find any media that denies the existence of straight guys, but LGBTQ characters are often completely ignored in games, or films, books, or whatever. Representation matters, because the more we’re seen in media, the more people (both straight/cis and closeted LGBTQ) realise that it’s not wrong to be different. It doesn’t matter if it’s “necessary for the plot”; are straight romances necessary for any plot? (And no, having a child does not mean that the romance needs to be straight; even in the real world, surrogacy and adoption exist, and in a fantasy or sci-fi setting, far more is possible.) If the game gives the option for straight romance, then it should also give options for gay romance, too.
As an aside, the so-called “Choice of Romance” isn’t really about romance at all, being far more about the politics (hence its other name, Affairs of the Court), and I certainly feel that it’s not fun to play as a gay guy.
This is a very loaded phrase, but let me redefine it for you: every time I see a straight couple having sex, kissing, or even just holding hands, on television, in movies, in games, in books, or even in real life, I am having heterosexuality “shoved down my throat”. If I can handle that much heterosexuality, surely you can put up with a little homosexuality. 
Did you actually read the opening post? It’s not just about being able to play as myself, it’s about being able to see myself represented in other characters, and having non-LGBTQ players still see me represented there, too. The more “normal” it is to be LGBTQ, the less normal it will be to be homophobic (or transphobic), and that’s what I’m aiming for. If all characters are straight for a straight player, then they’ll never see anything beyond what they know.
I’m not saying every game should have exclusively gay and straight characters; I’ve seen more games do it wrong than right, and especially for games with a smaller cast, making all characters bisexual is generally easier all around. But if you’ve got a larger cast, then you have no reason not to add in exclusively gay (or straight) characters, as long as you treat them with the same respect you do your other characters. You don’t even need to make them exclusive; @Snoe’s WiP gives all characters preferences (e.g. Vyde prefers guys), but they’re all bisexual.
Anyway, I hope I’ve given you something to think about. 
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What do you think of an all “bi” cast for a large group of romancable characters, and then having the members of the main cast who aren’t romancable being of different orientations? They would be important characters that you constantly interact with and get to see of course, and even if they aren’t romancable they would still be vital to the story each play-through. Is there something inherently different because you can’t romance them, even if you get to romance all the same characters everyone else can? I feel like that would be a way where people aren’t then annoyed at a character (for some reasons a lot of people will then ignore or dislike a character because they turned their character down for their gender, even if childish) and get to see everything you touched on.
(Note - I only ask because this was what a lot of people that I talked to after DA 2 was released wanted. I very much dislike with a strong, fiery passion all “bi” casts or “all “bi” casts but with one gay romance of each sex” that seem to be commonplace, but a lot of people do so this is just my musing for insight.)
Edit for words.
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I, personally, am a big big fan of when I see an LGBT+ character outside of the romance options (it’s even better when there’s both someone within the ROs and outside, which is kinda the best case scenario in my mind- if all is written well.)
It’s kinda a nod to the fact that not only do we exist but there’s many, many people who are LGBT+ in the world and shows even more that’s it just a normal, everyday part of people’s lives. It sorta drives that point home even more. It’s the subtle nods that I also very much appreciate because, hey, these people are just a part of the world like you and me and NPC #5.
Extra bonus points if, y’know, at least one of these people plays a major role in the story.
But that’s just my general thoughts, as for the all-player-sexual cast difference well… I dunno, I mean, I guess my thoughts remain the same. I think of those as two separate entities and situations, really. It could be that the ROs are all player-sexual 'cause there’s only 3 of them. In which case, I mean, yeah, I kinda get why you would want to make all the ROs player-sexual seeing as otherwise most people would be left with a one or none kinda option. And in general that usually doesn’t work since most people would like to have more than just one RO.
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I personally agree, as I like all characters to have their own individual orientation and a range of them (straight, gay, bi, asexual, aromantic). That includes outside and inside the ro’s.
But I do know that my opinion is not widely shared as I’ve seen maybe one or two games so far that actually have such a cast.
It was more directly of the situation to all romanceable characters being available for the player and then having your representation still present, just outside the ros? (But not side pcs. Plot-heavy involved characters.) If your qualm with an all “bi” cast is the lack of representation, if there is representation still highly visible (and important), what would be wrong with that setup? All the merits I’ve seen would be hit (Normalizing, seeing characters that reflect you, important to the story) and then you could still have romance for all sexualities. People tend to be fine with an all “bi” cast for all other reasons. Is there something valuable about a character rejecting your character, or would that be a viable implementation? If anything I think people would enjoy the characters and be more accepting of them, if that is influential, which is the goal I think.
(Not directly to you, as I enjoy your insight. 
Just didn’t think I worded it correctly maybe and trying to gain perspectives. I am inarticulate this morning. If that makes sense? I’m still inarticulate this morning. 
)
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I’m not against Judaism or anything, I just don’t want it shoved down my throat. Why should I have to see Jews in their weird little hats on tv, movies, and even in public??? Stop being who you are all up in my face Jewish people, it’s gross, you don’t need equal representation.
(btw I’m kidding to make a point, normally I wouldn’t bother to elucidate but I don’t want to be reported by someone who has no understanding of satire)
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It’s all good! I also might’ve misread or misanswered the question as I’m prone to accidentally doing, whoops.
I mean, I, personally, am happy with any representation as long as it’s well written. (And, on a more personal note, I often become a bit more hopeful when an asexual character is presented not as an RO. Since I very, very rarely see asexuality represented well and generally I find that there’s just a greater chance of falling into the 'oh but you’re obviously The One which means I must feel sexually attracted to you if they’re an RO… which… Hurts, a lot more than it would if the character wasn’t presented as ace to begin with.)
So, yeah, generally I’d say this is a very, very good compromise if you’re gonna make all the romanceable characters player-sexual to begin with.
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I understand you on a spiritual level. I’m bi and so often I’ve seen the “bi just for you.” I hate that it’s a fantasy that you can get someone to “turn” bi, or realize they’re bi because you’re just so super special™ and you’re just amazing enough to clear that cloud of repressed bi-ness. Ugh. Related, and I hope it’s not too much to impose, but on an upcoming game I do have a character that is romancable, and happens to be ace, and I really want to do him justice. If I ever actually get to posting it, and you feel so inclined to ever peruse my work, and you have any critique, I would take all your feedback with all the appreciation in the world. (No pressure, of course! I am well gifted in the art of nos.)
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Sure! I’m always happy to help out in any way I can. If you want also, I can PM you some cool resources for asexuality that I keep on hand. (Which might even be better than I could ever do since I’m just one person with my own life experiences.)
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That’d be great! I have already done some researching and talked to a good friend of mine, but she is not a big fan of games (literary based, the horror, or otherwise) and doesn’t seem too invested in playing for a go. More resources and feedback is always valuable. 
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“It’s fine to be straight, but do you have to be so in my face about it?”
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There are resources for asexuality? Not that I don’t have anything against aces, but it sounds weird when spoken aloud.
Unless you mean resources for portraying them in a realistic way?
No, I mean resources for others to better understand asexuality. A lot of people claim that it ‘doesn’t exist’ and/or have a lot of other misconceptions about it. (Here’s a handy video on that if you’re curious or still confused on what misconceptions others might have.) Or for people like myself way back when, who realize that how they’re attracted to others doesn’t really seem to match up with how others talk about it/how it’s portrayed, at least not entirely.
Lemme tell you these things are invaluable, especially for someone like me who was very, very confused and unsure and a li’l scared in some way. They kinda provide the ‘hey, don’t worry, you’re okay and this is normal, in fact here’s some things that might line up with how you’re feeling’ that some people need/want to hear.
Sorry if I phrased that oddly, but this is essentially a more long-winded way of saying what I meant. Hope that helps, some!
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Can’t figure out how to quote individual sections so I’ll type my reply the noob way.
“Well, it is a big deal to those of us that it concerns. You’re not likely to find any media that denies the existence of straight guys, but LGBTQ characters are often completely ignored in games, or films, books, or whatever. Representation matters, because the more we’re seen in media, the more people (both straight/cis and closeted LGBTQ) realise that it’s not wrong to be different.”
I don’t think it should be ignored gay people exist, what I’m saying is that putting them in just to fill a quota is equally as stupid as putting in a hetero romance in an action movie or something just to fill a quota. I would want either a reason for them to be there, for it to add something to the world/plot or else that it’s made an equally small deal about it as it is for anyone to be straight. When you start blowing party horns the moment someone casually goes “I’m gay” you’re going too far about “MUH REPRESENTATION” in my opinion. The other end of that spectrum are the idiots who go “THIS IS GAY PROPAGANDA” the moment there is someone gay in an entire movie regardless of size or role.
I’d rather we just rest comfortably in the middle where it’s equally as fine to have characters of any orientation(/race/gender/insert) and it’s treated equally: if it adds anything, expand on it. If it doesn’t, leave it to background flavor.
“It doesn’t matter if it’s “necessary for the plot”; are straight romances necessary for any plot? (And no, having a child does not mean that the romance needs to be straight; even in the real world, surrogacy and adoption exist, and in a fantasy or sci-fi setting, far more is possible.) If the game gives the option for straight romance, then it should also give options for gay romance, too.”
Agree to disagree on the first part. If it’s not necessary or else add something of value then it shouldn’t go beyond background flavor or it just starts distracting from said plot/world. I’m not talking exclusively about gay romances or anything here, talking in general. If a space mercenary story has a character who’s the kid of a corporate CEO but acts and is treated exactly the same as anybody else for no apparent reason and doesn’t do anything to help advance the plot or character developments, why bother with that character? It’s just a unnecessary distraction from the plot that leaves you going “what was the point of X again?”
Moving on, are straight romances necessary for any plot? Yes, some plots are centered around romances and some plots use it as a motivating factor or part of a character development. Do they have to be straight? Not particularly, it very much depends on the story. Having a gay romance be center to the plot is just as fine, and in some cases it can even add an element a straight romance cannot; sometimes it’s the other way around.
The problem for me is when things are tossed into a place where it doesn’t belong or blown out of proportion. I’m gonna be equally as bothered if I see a medieval nobody peasant who’s openly gay without some justified protection from the church in an age were gays were executed as sinners and heretics as I will be if a choice of games force me into a straight romance or if it takes time away from the plot to focus on some straight side characters being lovey dovey with one another in a way that’s completely unrelated to anything. It doesn’t need to be there.
“As an aside, the so-called “Choice of Romance” isn’t really about romance at all, being far more about the politics (hence its other name, Affairs of the Court), and I certainly feel that it’s not fun to play as a gay guy.”
Still think romance is pretty central given the name, but I digress and defer to your judgement there as I haven’t actually played it. I went fully by the name to showcase a point where I would expect for such things as gay romances to not only be readily represented but also be available as a focus and be justified for it because it’d add something to the premise (and presumably the world) of such a setting.
Before I answer to the below I should clarify what I mean with this one:
I don’t mind gay people existing in fiction (or irl) as long as it doesn’t go out of its way to show me a bunch of sex scenes which doesn’t add anything whatsoever just to have it there or if it continiously hammer me over the head with “I’M GAY I’M GAY I’M GAY” because I need the constant reminder. This applies in equal measures to straight people or black people or white people or fucking I donno, Buddists, electricians you name it. The problem isn’t the orientation, in this case; the problem is when it’s unnecessairly expanded upon at a cost of everything around it. I don’t need details if it doesn’t amount to anything or worse, takes away time and effort from the relevant parts of the story.
"This is a very loaded phrase, but let me redefine it for you: every time I see a straight couple having sex, kissing, or even just holding hands, on television, in movies, in games, in books, or even in real life, I am having heterosexuality “shoved down my throat”. If I can handle that much heterosexuality, surely you can put up with a little homosexuality. "
Yeah, I’ve no problems seeing homosexual couplings or displays of affection anymore than heterosexual ones. I have a problem when either of those are continously showcased without reason just to show it. If, say, a horror movie has a scene where the main leads, who let’s say are a couple (you fill in the blanks of what kind; it’s equally relevant either way), bunkering down from some killer or whatever and the they, in that moment of calm, share a kiss as they tell each other they love each other that’s fine; there’s a reason for it to be there. But if you then expand upon it to add a 20 minutes sex scene that we have to sit through and then nothing happens and they just casually go back to the plot immediately afterwards, then you’re wasting time on something that doesn’t need to be seen.
If you shift the genre over to romance though? That changes the entire premise and at that point it becomes more acceptable to show such scenes because it’s actually part of the premise to some extent and thus is nolonger in the way of the plot or distracting from the premise that you’re there for.
“Did you actually read the opening post? It’s not just about being able to play as myself, it’s about being able to see myself represented in other characters, and having non-LGBTQ players still see me represented there, too. The more “normal” it is to be LGBTQ, the less normal it will be to be homophobic (or transphobic), and that’s what I’m aiming for. If all characters are straight for a straight player, then they’ll never see anything beyond what they know.”
But the way you seem to be going about it is by having a quota of “must contain at least x gay character(s)” which is where my problem comes in. I’m not saying it’s bad to include them, I’m saying don’t have them there just to be there. Make something out of it. Same for straight people; if the orientation isn’t relevant to anything around them then the fact that they’re straight shouldn’t go beyond a handwave at worst.
“I’m not saying every game should have exclusively gay and straight characters; I’ve seen more games do it wrong than right, and especially for games with a smaller cast, making all characters bisexual is generally easier all around. But if you’ve got a larger cast, then you have no reason not to add in exclusively gay (or straight) characters, as long as you treat them with the same respect you do your other characters.”
Wait, what’re you doing? Stop this agreement; we’re supposed to be arguing on the internet! Waah! Waaah!
Jokes aside, I’m in full agreement with this part. Especially the latter part.
“Anyway, I hope I’ve given you something to think about. ”
Afraid not, our focus appear to be in different places in this argument from what I can tell, that last one aside. I’m not entirely sure if we’re misunderstanding each other or if we just disagree on the premise of whether giving more representation is needed or not rather than it being treated as everything else. 
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I got to ask ´which game have you played which do that, because as far as I am aware asexuality rarely even seems to exist in games and certainly not amongst RO.
I have seen tv-shows and books which does this, but that is different and mostly those shows seems to have never intended to representing asexuality in the first place and just use the lack of sex as some kind of obstacle to overcome. It is disgusting, but it was never meant to be ace-representation.
I for my part would like to see explicit ace RO’s. While COG’s generally are good about letting the MC be ace, I can only think of one case where the RO is ace.
I also have to admit that in real life the only reason I would bring my aceness up would be if I was considering dating them. I would maybe bring up some of the signs of my aceness, but never my actual lack of physical attraction or intent of never having sex. There is only one person who knows and that is because we were discussing LGBT+ issues. I guess that I would not really connect with
I was speaking more on media generally. No CoG/HG I’ve read has fallen into this trap. (Which may be in part due to as you’ve said, there’s not a lot of ace ROs.)
As for which do contain Ace ROs… I… can’t think of any published ones right now but I remember that Son of Satan was mentioned as going to have one in the future, and that in my own WiP there’s an asexual RO as well. (I can’t link to either right now due to being on my phone now so I apologize.)
I don’t know if either of those were the case you were thinking of?
I’m the same in real life. Though thats more from a general, personal standpoint of just not being someone who comes out unless it comes into casual conversation. Which is does sometimes if we’re speaking about romance or dating or telling funny stories related to those things.
Which actually can be a very natural way to include a characters sexuality in-text. Of course it depends on the person as in real life there are those like myself who don’t really directly come out, and there are those who do. Same can be said for how a character presents their own sexuality.