The sixth book is one of my faves of the last decade, but they’re all worth readibg.
2 Likes
I have no idea if this has been mentioned before… but when the choices appear to be written to push you in a direction the author wants. I recall playing The Shadow Society and sending a screenshot of a set of choices to my friend with the caption: “Tell me you want me to romance Michael without telling me you want to romance Michael”, in which all but one of the choices implied some form of romantic attraction to him “a strange fluttering”, “smile flirtatiously” “smiling and saying the feeling’s mutual”… vs “I would say that but I really don’t like you”
… In response to Michael telling you “I’m really glad you’re okay”. I sat staring at that checkpoint for a while because I was still hesitant about who I wanted to romance and I just wanted to be able to say “thanks for worrying about me (platonically)”, say a quick “thanks” or even “shyly smile gratefully” (which I would have done in a similar situation in real life).
Choices that boil down to extremes like “ohhh my hero~ why don’t you accept my hand in marriage for holding the door for me” vs “I DIDN’T NEED YOUR HELP, YOU JACKASS, YOU ABSOLUTE BUFFOON kick character in the kneecaps and spit in their face” are incredibly manipulative.
On an unrelated note, I accidentally earned myself rivalry points with one of the characters in the same story because I misinterpreted the tone of a dialogue choice I guess, something like “feeling disastrous when you open your mouth” which I thought was supposed to be flirty, the equivalent of saying “I get flustered by your words” but I take the blame for that one, really.
27 Likes
I remember the author of Shadow Society going on record and admitting that they were seat-of-the-pantsing the story because they were really excited to write it, but didn’t think to slow down and flesh things out as thoroughly as they could have. That’s why so much of the story feels like you’re being pushed in a specific direction, and why so many of the choices feel so weighted, because they put hard emphasis on what they felt the canon plot thread was and then neglected the rest of it.
I’m not excusing it, it was just as annoying for me, but that’s the explanation for it.
As for the general point of “story feeling like it’s trying to push you in a certain direction,” I feel like I was the one who brought that up, or certainly, I’ve been one of the voices in that conversation. Following the overarching plot is fine, but it always feels so cheap when the choices I’m supposed to have don’t feel like choices at all.
12 Likes
They’re so good! In some of the books characters from the games appear and I was ridiculously excited. Another one is on the way and I can’t wait!
Damn, I keep being positive on the hated-element thread 
3 Likes
I didn’t really feel so much that I was pushed in a specific direction when I was playing/reading Shadow Society. But I won’t deny that the story as such didn’t feel that fleshed out. The main draw for me was the ROs and their romances, and when it comes to romances that HG is among the best HGs/COGs so far IMHO, better than The Wayhaven Chronicles for instance. The concept behind the story is also interesting and the lore also seems to be interesting. It’s just a pity that there’s not much of a story there outside of the admittedly exellent romances. If the story as such had been as good as the romances that HG would have made my COG/HG top 10 easily. The way it is now, it’s just outside of my top 20, still goodish, but with some clear weaknesses that drags it down quite a bit and too unpolished for me to be more forgiving of those weaknesses.
7 Likes
Not sure if this has been mentioned before, but one thing that always rankles me is having to choose weaknesses during character creation. For a recent example, in A Crown of Sorcery and Steel (which is great by the way, this isn’t a criticism of that game specifically) I initially wanted to play a fighter-type character and so chose Might as my primary skill. I was then given the choice of Swift, Ingenuity or Rugged as a weakness for my character - meaning that if I want to be a warrior, I have to be either slow or fragile or stupid.
Possibly this is a personal thing; I enjoy power fantasies and am naturally drawn to heroic characters who are fairly competent all-round. However I understand that it can be interesting for a character to have both strengths and weaknesses; it’s more that picking a skill to be bad at seems like a boring and token way of doing it. In gameplay terms it merely means that you’ll never use that skill (which, let’s face it, is going to be true of most skills outside your chosen specialities), but beyond that for character weaknesses to be meaningful they should be personal flaws that colour their way of thinking, and that they have to grow as a character to overcome. I’m not sure how you’d implement that in a game; if anyone has any ideas I’d love to hear them.
15 Likes
I actually like this. Not just because I tend to find characters who are good at everything boring(though I can certainly enjoy when they’re really good at something), but also because I like playing characters who are short and/or physically weak and since most cogs and hgs still don’t give you the opportunity to choose the height of your character, choosing a character with a low strength or the nearest equivalent, is often the only way I can play a character who is like that. And particularly since there’s quite a few cogs and hgs who choose which of your stats to increase “in mysterious ways”, having the opportunity to choose any ability to be particularly weak, at least makes it easier to keep that ability comparatively low. So I hope the trend of making you choose one weakness for the MC continues, both because it at least partly prevents characters who are good at everything and because it makes it easier to construct particular kinds of characters, whether it is a low-strength, low-charisma or low-any other kind of ability kind of character.
3 Likes
Personally I just feel it’s a bit redundant. I can enjoy both power fantasy and stories with more balanced stats/story, but picking a weakness seems a bit tacked on. We already have a lowest stat. Boom, there’s your weakness.
11 Likes
I hate it when a knee high fence is blocking my path. Especially if it’s in a game where I can jump higher than it.
9 Likes
While I like the idea of a twig-like warrior, purely because they’d have to be crafty about how they fight, I will always, always find fault with the trope that warriors are either slow or stupid, and with authors who use that trope straight-faced. I get playing it up for laughs (Fighter from 8-Bit Theatre will always be my favorite character), or for intimidation - big, slow moving brute in nearly indestructible armor with a big damn [insert weapon here] is a classic - but in reality, if you wanna not end up dead, you’ve gotta be pretty damn smart and pretty damn fast in a fight. Even just the recreational stuff that HEMA (for the uninitiated: Historical European Martial Arts) practitioners do for giggles is pretty in-depth.
Having weaknesses is fine, but if I were to give a warrior character a weakness, “slow” or “stupid” would not be my go-to - “inexperienced,” maybe, like they’re relatively new to the job and aren’t as finely honed as older fighters. Or, like I said earlier, twiggy fighters who aren’t as physically strong as others and have to think on the fly in order to get through a fight. “Sloppy,” if their technique isn’t as polished as it should be, but they still know what they’re doing. I would only ever go for slow or stupid if it’s a warrior character who’s taken a few hits to the head or has a prior injury to a leg or something that makes them not perform at their absolute best anymore. Or, for a more classic example, they’re “slow” in the sense that the rogue is just a smidge faster than they are, and “stupid” in the sense that they don’t necessarily practice magic like a wizard does.
I’ll go ahead and stop myself here, because now that I’ve brought up “rogue” and “wizard,” my brain is starting to go, “Oh yeah! And ANOTHER thing-!” which will take me all night if I don’t cut myself off now.
11 Likes
Aaand that reminds me that I hate the mandatory warrior/rogue/wizard divide.
9 Likes
Can you think another one?
On the mechanic views it’s either thoose three or an hybrid beetween/among them.
If you have something in mind I’m curious
1 Like
How about just… having an assortment of skills a character could learn based on their background and current environment (and, if the ability to learn magic needs to be innate, whether they have that or not)? I mean, I see no reason why a wizard couldn’t learn to pick a lock if they so wish, but a noble and a street urchin will have access to different skills, as does a university student versus a blacksmith’s apprentice.
I’m fine with them as occupations (although I’d like a wider array), it’s just that hard divide in skills, and the lack of variation, that bothers me. (Why does it always have to be just those three anyway?)
9 Likes
Sound interresting… the problems are actually making It work and doing it balanced (meaning no scrappy and no game breaker, or at least, the less possible)
Because they may not be original, but they work basically anywhere.
The warrior is the tank: strong, physical, durable, mostly hand to hand but sometimes can also be ranger, they charge the ennemy not caring about consequences. Weakness are slowness and inability of taking advantage of weakness.
The rougue is the fragile speedster: quick and stealthy, they employ the hit-run tactic because they can’t take damage so they are built to avoid it, they are weak so they compensate with higher critical chance and damage (or better aim for weak spots), often they are also trapper and ranger.
The mage is either the healer (support), the greater damager or both: the cast spells that deal much more damage than a warrior and hit more weaknesses than a rouge. However they are glass canons, since the are less durable than a warrior (sometimes even a rogue) and less agile and stealthy than a rogue, they are completly powerless once they run out of spells and/or energy for them. So it’s either a big and fast win or it’s game over.
As you can see, the triade warrior/rogue/wizard basically cover almost everything. So it’s true, they are not original, but they are the safest to use in a classe based adventure (for the build based is another story).
That’s why it’s always either thoose three, hybrid of them, or something branched from them.
3 Likes
But what if it isn’t one of those and more of a story? What if you enjoy the roleplaying more than the fighting? (How does the worldbuilding work? Are people born in these categories, or are they learnt skills? Why does knowing how to cast a healing spell block you from learning self defence?)
3 Likes
Presumably because you only have X time and energy to learn things in and with.
9 Likes
That and they probably take vastly different skill set, motivation and interest.
Same reason you don’t see many world class athletes who are also award winning rocket-scientist.
15 Likes
Well sure, but you can know krav maga and CPR.
2 Likes
A healing spell is quite a bit beyond something like CPR, what you’re talking about is more like a warrior being capable of using a poultice or health potion, both of which are generally allowed.
5 Likes
Or taking proficiency in the Medicine skill.
4 Likes