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Guilty as charged. XD
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Black Magic as a character makes me so incredibly uncomfortable even in concept. The fact that you are forced to be attracted to them and yet so little affection is put into their personality or appearance that they are merely a famous celebrity [creepy in it’s own way btw, fetishizing people is weird] but then I heard how they will break up with you if you don’t do a super shady thing in one of the games and I couldn’t really reconcile it.
All of the ROs in that series is pretty unsavoury to me if I recall correctly. I heavily dislike any story that tells me how my MC must naturally react to someone, I would much prefer the option to choose if my character is interested, attracted, neutral, annoyed, etc.
It is a bit of a writing peeve of mine when someone represents a character to be a certain way but in reality they are just poorly thought out and end up coming off as extremely creepy or forceful as a result. [Furthering Black Magic discussion, the fucking basement of people they keep on life support? And if you have a negative reaction it makes you the bad guy? What in the hell–?]. Or the Detective from Wayhaven, who so rarely ends up actually doing ‘detective’ things, I wish there was more of a general introspective mindset to the Detective. I know there are excuses, but it doesn’t change my own feelings.
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Black Magic is also weird when you don’t give a shit about his secret. In my run he looked like Marylin Manson, which now is even more ironic than it was in 2018, he and my character copulated, oh no, railroading, actually I (as in, my character, but honestly me too) don’t give a shit, my character said and Black Magic went all sugoi. You love me, truly, my dear, let me try to blackmail you with the power of your ex out of absolutely nowhere into joining my high school clique and let me ignore the fact I’ve said that I’ve never felt so accepted before.
I mean, dude, where else will you find this accepting of a man? Sure, he might be a fame whore and is incredibly dangerous walking nuclear vigilante, but hey, he’s very accepting. He’d not mind at all if you stayed an actually useful cape instead of whatever Bright Magic was.
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Both happen regardless of what you do.
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Ah, my mistake, then. I only ever played through the series once (for increasingly obvious reasons, the more I look back on it), so I thought that was just what happened if you played it like I did and just never have BM the time of day.
Oh good, so it tries to guilt you no matter which way you lean, great.
Where’s the “Why am I even bothering with this” option?
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You can go basically full-in and it still happen. The murder thing is somewhat mind-control related mixed with actual resentment (and you’re expected to stop the fight with ‘True Love’, at least if you’re in a relationship) and the failing career is mostly related to stuff that happen off-screen the author just decided to make happen between games to basically get an excuse to not take one of your choice into account.
Hero Rise is a surprisingly unchanging plotline honestly. The biggest decision related change to the ‘story’ is unironically a pseudo-RO not waking up if your socialist stat isn’t high enough.
Also ironically enough, I have the opposite issue with Wayhaven. I wanted to just be chill with my MC’s mother but the game kept going ‘Are you SURE you don’t have mommy issues?’, it was kinda repetitive and annoying.
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I have this whole thing with Sergi games in general where there is a LOT of railroading. Which, you know what, it can be tough to avoid that. I get it. But it bothers me that Sergi decided to shut down his account on the forum rather than listen to criticism on the topic.
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There’s some people who got a bit too focused on criticizing him back then but using that as an excuse to dismiss all criticism was just as bad IMO.
Like as far as I saw, he just took everything that was criticized about Hero Rise, doubled down on it in the sequel trilogy and then shoved it all into the VERSUS series.
That in itself is something I dislike, changing your entier concept just because of your latest whim / whatever genre you last binged. Hero Rise is a good exemple of that where we went from Superhero stuff to glorified reality TV nonsense and never really broke free of it, to the point the whole sequel trilogy is about it (until it suddenly become about making a weird Superhero ethno state founded by literally all the worst villains that hadn’t been killed in the original trilogy and they are somehow the good guys and THEN become a VERSUS tie-in).
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See, this is where the whole “show, don’t tell” thing comes in. I’ve heard people use it to bash adverbs (which is just insane, in my opinion), complain about inner monologue where a character thinks they are angry (instead of leaving it as “she slammed the door shut so hard it shattered the windows!”), but never do you see people complain about the thing that should really be an issue, such as the things you pointed out about Rebecca and the Agency (I actually liked Black Magic 
).
The problem is that you end up with those who will just go along with the author and regurgitate what they’ve been told without analyzing why others might feel differently. This happened with the majority of female characters in The Wheel of Time, where Jordan told everyone how strong and awesome they were while presenting them as a bunch of spoiled, selfish, squabbling children who hated men and thought everyone should bend the knee to them because they wore a ring no one but them cared about (and they could, you know, kill someone in the blink of an eye, which is exactly what you want from a group of emotionally unstable narcissistic misandrist).
The same holds true for cases where you’re told character A is so awesome, but the only way the author knows how to show that is to make every character in their orbit suddenly turn into a bunch of bumbling buffoons who can’t find their way out of a cardboard box without character A pointing the way.
Honestly, I think that the secret is to understand that, in canon, the MC is just there to prop up the four vampires’ stories. As written, the MC is boring, scared of their own shadow (constantly freaking out and jump scaring at every little thing), defaults to blushing when not in direct control of the player, has never done anything interesting, sometimes (in some skill sets) lacks the abilities that should have been developed when they attended the academy, and is basically a doormat for everyone from the vampires to their mother, to the captain and mayor, and for Bobby, when the plot calls for it. There’s no history other than them growing up in Wayhaven, being neglected by their mother (who is perfect and anyone who disagrees is apparently evil), and possibly having some sort of relationship with Bobby.
That’s it. That’s all there is to the detective. So you can head canon whatever you want (one of mine was involved with a faction of the Russian mob, who now wants her dead, and is only back in Wayhaven to hide and do what she promised when she managed to escape trouble for borrowing cars and street racing), and when what you’re reading is too out of character, just try to ignore it.
Soul Stone Wars suffers from the same problem, in many ways. I loved it the first few times I played it (both b1 and b2), but my reasons were basically that the romances weren’t inorganically stalled to drag things out longer. Playing again, I got more and more annoyed at the MC’s passive ways, and the fact that the plot boiled down to, “either accept the psycho soul stone or die” with no other way to work through the MC agreeing to the bond or whatever. I tried again recently, playing from the beginning through the end of b2, and it just felt too forced for me. I’ll keep playing, but that’s just to see what happens with Morkai (who seemed to have a personality transplant in b2, to the point where it felt like a different character, at one point).
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Wait… There’s someone else in the world who can’t stand the Aes Sedai!?
Anyways, I agree on the overall topic. MMO’s are a pretty funny example of “X thing that’s supposed to be awesome but is actually completely useless” on account of the multiplayer element. Like in Star Wars: The Old Republic they constantly have to come with excuses for why every other Jedi and Sith in the galaxy is sitting around giving you all the important tasks.
That said, it can be a tricky thing to balance sometimes. Oftentimes I’ve seen people criticize works for making the MC feel unimportant and like someone else could do everything for them. Sometimes you do have to come up with reasons for why the really important people in the story world can’t solve everything for you.
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Since we’re talking about the Soul Stone War, while I agree you’re treated as kind of the ‘weak link’ for long stretches of the game even if you have objectively kicked ass the whole way.
But it’s far from important compared to what it does that related to my new disliked thing I want to bring up: When the McGuffin / whatever the games are named after are utterly useless or inconsequential. Like there’s not a single moment in the Soul Stone War where I actually needed said soul stone, my raw stats always did the job perfectly well on their own.
I don’t remember a single time the Soul Stone is actually mandatory for a fight and you’re just using it in a different way to fit your preferred stat, it’s always just an option alongside using your stats OR you just use it in ‘cutscene mode’ so to speak.
Throw in the ‘dream walker’ bit that straight up come out of nowhere and sound like it belong in another book / an unused vastly different draft version of the story alongside it too.
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Useless is one thing, but if it’s something everyone is warring over or a war is named after (and the game is about said war), I’d think it’s important enough to warrant being in the name. Although maybe it’s not inconsequential in that case.
(Like, say, “Duck Egg War” could be a story about three nations trying to find a mythical duck’s nest. Or a game about war that started by someone throwing duck eggs at a king. Wouldn’t even need to feature actual duck eggs.)
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This seems more of a case of you not liking the choices presented to you in a game that gives you a ton of wiggleroom regarding reaction choices. Also your Mc can 100% hate Rebecca but no, they cannot control the opinions of other characters regarding it, nor should they. There are so many options that let’s you roleplay a more headstrong MC, picking out the only part that seem universal to every MC(aka being confronted with supernaturals) seems nitpicky at best. They’re human, surrounded by supernaturals who could rip them to shreds in less than a minute, I really do not fault the author for making the clear distinction that there is a huge difference in power between those two sides. I think even Rambo would shake like a leaf if he were to be confronted with the fact that vampires and what not could snap his oversized bones like a twig. Anyhow, I didn’t want to stir this back to wayhaven
Actual incompetent mcs who are playing in the same league as the cast: MC from heart of the house. (and paaartly the MC from arcadie second born)
I go into ifs knowing what setting it plays in and what role the MC is playing, for example in mindblind, a story where the MC is the opposite of the chosen one, I go in expecting them to be at a severe disadvantage compared to literally any other character in the story. Meanwhile in the golden rose the MC is evenly matched with their companions and everyone excels in a different skillset that never feels like undermining the MC or making them overpowered.
The MCs competence should always act within bounds of the setting given by the ifs. (the passanger suffers from a strong case of ‘Detached MC’ who really isn’t reacting to aaaanything that hasn’t immediate ties to their enemy and I’m not sure of its because of their inherent nature or because it’s just not my cup of writing)
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I’ll just say that “cup of writing” sounds so funny I want to start using it as well.
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I really hate the current trend of most ROs being hateful or controlling to the MC. And when there is a friendly and caring RO, they’re so clearly coded as a sub. 
This, though.
And it’s made ten times worse by the fact that they never have to prove themselves to us in return.
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Obviously what I said is context dependent and isn’t a general ‘never ever do this’ but you hopefully get the gist of what I meant with my exemple.
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Nope. Most of the choice options work for building the MC’s personality. The problem is that that personality is often ignored in lieu of whatever is deemed cute (being jumpy all the time) or dramatic (always fluttering, even if your MC isn’t shy or always blushing over everything).
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No matter how distant the MC is from Rebecca, they are forced to notice Rebecca’s obvious “hurt” over their attitude, when most who can’t stand her wouldn’t notice or even be looking at the woman any more than necessary. It’s put in there to add drama and “angst” but that drama and angst fall flat with those who play MCs who can’t stand R and don’t see why they should have some sort of feeling for a woman who was never there for them until recently. But the only place where the MC’s feelings about R are actually used is in whether the MC calls Rebecca by her name or “mum” (and that actually should be a choice) and when UB is asking about that relationship.
It’s a given that the MC’s opinions of Rebecca shouldn’t control the opinions of other characters. However, at some point, I would like for there to be an opportunity for the MC to explain to UB–or, at the very least, their LI–why they feel negatively toward Rebecca. That said, I don’t see us getting it.
The whole situation with Rebecca just feels like another example of the narrative pushing the MC (and player) to feel a certain way and to feel bad for playing a way that does not coincide with the preferred path.
Actually, Rambo would not be shaking like a leaf because he has been trained to deal with scary shit without falling apart. Most soldiers are. Most law enforcement officers are. And not everyone reacts the same way when faced with something a lot of people find frightening, anyway. Humans aren’t one-note, flat cartoon characters who all behave the exact same in the exact same situation. And we were given the choice of how the MC reacts to UB being vampires, anyway, and weren’t forced for the MC to be pissing themselves unless that’s what the player wanted.
And that’s where the disconnect is: an MC who was cool with the vampire thing (“okay, this makes sense now”) is constantly frightened by loud noises that turn out to be pigeons, people coming up behind them and saying their name, or various other things that make the MC look like they’re ill-suited not only to being a cop (if everything startles you and you carry a gun, it’s a recipe for disaster) but for existing in the world at all. It’s there for “humor” whether or not it fits the MC’s build. But I don’t find it funny–I find it immersion breaking.
Personality stats should be considered when writing text that could completely contradict the stats the players are allowed to build for their character. Otherwise, why bother with stats at all? It would be akin to a player stating that their MC is ace and the author deciding the MC was overcome with lust for a passing NPC. It is flat out ignoring the character you let the player build.
It is obviously necessary to ignore player stats sometimes in order to move the plot along or writing would take an inordinate amount of time, but that text should be more neutral–turning to see who is there if someone says the MC’s name instead of the MC acting like they’re starring in Scream or simply talking to the LI and feeling warm instead of fluttering and hyperventilating like they just ran a marathon. Everything doesn’t have to be an over-the-top reaction, a “funny” moment, or dramatic. I have two fairly stoic MCs, both of whom took the supernatural thing in stride… so every time I see them jump scare or chuckle constantly, it rips me right out of immersion.
SSW kinda does the same thing, with the MC being a smartass no matter how stoic they are. The best I’ve seen it done so far is in FH2. I very rarely read a passage in that game that just threw me out of immersion because it was so ill-fitting of the stats for the MC I was playing.
I haven’t tried that game yet. I don’t mind detached MCs (or broken ones, as the marshal in I, the Forgotten One is one of my favorite MCs yet), but The Passenger just struck me as too much of a downer to play.
Always!! That’s one reason why I never like playing MCs with the friendly and caring ones, unless I make the MC in a way that can at least annoy the LI regularly to make it more fun (with N in Wayhaven, I have a combat-oriented detective who rushes in head first and has no fear of anything, but fails enough so N has reason to be afraid… like the big bite scar on the side of her neck, lol).
For the hateful ones… I like the snarky ones, the tough ones, the ones who are bad boys. I don’t like hateful, though. So I feel you, there.
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cough sewer scene cough
The vampires all suck at fighting very incredibly much. In fact, the only competent people in all of Wayhaven appear to be the Agency’s medical staff, Tina, and Verda.
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As long as Tina stops pestering Detective about hot vampire singles in his area, I’m ready to replace Unit Bravo with her alone.
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