Critiquing vs Criticizing

Usually after I’ve given feedback or after I’ve read the demo all the way through if I’m confused about which choices/options raised or lowered some stats that I wasn’t expecting. Otherwise, I check the code to pass a pass or fail option if I haven’t passed for the fifth time in a row.

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I certainly feel that “Something’s wrong here” is far less useful than “I spotted a problem in this exact spot; here’s what’s wrong (and possibly how to fix it)”. :thinking:

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I’ve checked it once for feedback, and that was mostly to help the author with a bug. All the other times were me looking to check which stats to raise. Though I do complain about stat increases sometimes.

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I think that way as well. Unless I’m editing, I don’t go poking around in the code unless asked. I feel the testing should be done as a player. If there are concerns, then bring it up to the author. There are lots of things to be missed by looking at just the code.

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I think to me it all boils down to encouraging vs discouraging. Whenever I post on someone’s wip besides pointing out mistakes I try and think about what I really liked and what drew me in. I always add that in because I think it’s important for authors -no matter how good they are at receiving feedback or how experienced- to feel encouraged to continue writing and like their hard work is recognized.

Of course, there is a limit to how much someone can do to have their feedback received well. As long as people try and make sure that what they send won’t discourage an author from writing or completely deflate them it’s enough though. To me, when feedback makes a writer want to stop writing that’s unconstructive. To be honest I don’t even think it’s done on purpose a lot of the time.

That’s why I think it’s important for people to make a conscious effort to think about how their feedback might affect the author. Not all toxic feedback is done on purpose, especially since I’d say most people on here (me included lol) don’t have any formal training in giving feedback. There are some tricks on how to do it well but even then, there isn’t a set formula. I don’t think there’s one proper way to give feedback in all honesty. So I think it’s just about remembering that these stories are all written by real people with different circumstances and trying to be sensible to that.

An argument that sort of gets thrown in a lot of discussions and this one included (though not by anyone on here I think) is that people need to grow “thicker skin” because once their work is made public they’re gonna inevitably come across harsh and downright insulting critiques. I don’t like that idea. It’s true and undeniable that there are some very blunt people and some who just want to tear others down. It’s also true that being used to those people helps. I don’t think that those that aren’t have some sort of obligation to become immune to their critiques though. It’s not realistic to expect authors to be able to dismiss all incredibly toxic critiques just because their work is public. It’s okay for them to be upset when receiving that sort of comments, even if their story is public.

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I hate the have thick skin phrase. Not only authors to everyone in general. Respect is primary and without it there is not communication. However, what for one is insulting could be extremely polite to others. And that’s for both. If an author don’t want feedback if they want praises to boost their morale the author should say so. Because sometimes people just feel sad and wants being cheered. That’s fine and logic. But useful useful… is not. I am learning to be more polite in how say the things and I think is good for both sides but still author has to understand that i asks for real feedback it will be moments when They will have to hear certain negatives and they aren’t given to mocking them it is just part of testing process of polish. Testers aren’t against you.

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I will usually play through once, and then read through the code, though depending on time, one or the other could end up falling by the wayside. If I’m interested enough in something, I like to see the full experience, and also see how everything fits together, but I also like to be able to experience it “naturally” as well. Both approaches are useful for testing; playing will give a better insight into how the game flows, how the pacing will actually be experienced, how balanced the stats are, etc. But code-reading allows you to notice things you might otherwise never play through, spot bugs more directly, etc.

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I always play through normally at first – I think it’s easier to catch errors when it’s divided into pages compared to the blob of code. And the first playthroughs determine whether if the game is my cup of tea and if I should actually give my feedback at all.

Sometimes I’ll dive into the code when I’m looking for a specific issue, like a continuity error or when a sentences that need editing have a variable (like the MC’s name or something – that way the author can just copy and find the sentence quickly if they want). If I happen to find any other errors along the way that’s an added bonus. :yum:

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I usually only do it if I encounter a game-breaking bug, to see if I can help. In other instances, like private betas, I have scrubbed through the code top to bottom, to make sure there are no inconsistencies, etc.

I try not to do it in order to “cheat the system”, so to speak, though I may do it on a longer game, just to try to help with issues, without having to replay from the beginning.

Maybe it’s just how my brain works, but I honestly enjoy the games more with the code. Not for any cheat-y purposes…I just like reading them that way. This may just be due to how much time I spend staring at code for fun, though, so 100% ymmv.

I wouldn’t say thicker skin, necessarily, but part of showing art to the world is accepting that not everybody is going to like it and that it may not be perfect. Especially for new authors, this is really difficult, and things can all feel like a personal attack. I’ve been publicly writing for +/-14 years, and I still sometimes feel personally attacked by constructive criticism, even when it is worded as nicely as possible.

So, while I don’t think “growing a thick skin” would be quite apropos, there is a certain amount of experience and maturity that comes from critique and learning how to step back and not view it as a personal attack.

I don’t believe anyone has said it is. Personally, I have only ever meant this in the context of genuine constructive criticism, not toxic criticism. Even sincere, polite, constructive criticism can be painful to read.

Agreed, especially with…

Textual mediums are very difficult to convey tone with. I have made it a habit to comment that “xyz is not a personal attack” if I am concerned that debating something may be perceived as such.

And, just to be on the safe side: none of this is aimed st anyone in particular. I’m just expanding upon ideas put forth. Please let me know if anything came across offensively, as that’s not my intent :heart::heart::heart:

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5 posts were split to a new topic: Is This Constructive Feedback