I am a role player Save games in If only have bring in my experience bad things. I play permanent death characters for me there is no right or wrong choices and deads could be great endings.
You play perma-death characters, not everyone else. All you need to do is not use the save system and let others play the way they want to while you play the way you want to.
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Hey, this statement and a lot of what you said could come across as quite rude. Let’s keep conversation civil and kind, please, regardless of how we feel about the topic or the opinions of others.
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@moderators I will not tolerate DIRECT insults against my person. Because i doesn’t sare THE POLITICAL correctness opinion of saves are the cure to humanity. I respect others and I understand why they want saves and I see why a company will want implemented them.
As I see people don’t want to hear anything different from their own opinions or civic discussion i will restrain of participate so this could become a monologue of why saves are wonderful.
Edit I will try explain my posture. I am NOT a gainst saves. I am against The Design changes Saves usually bring.
They allows a sloppy design were situations are GAME OVER RESTART that substitute the well crafted now fail scenes that show so wonderful moments of great quality and originality.
Many writers when there is a save system change the way branches handle making choices more flavour as considering player will restart if choices are considered not desirable that influence the designs to be more standard and videogamey
If cog design continue same I am pro Saves for people that wanted them.
My fear is save could bring a change like other rival companies lately
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I’d like to disabuse people of these notions here. I’m removing the name of the original poster because it’s not my intent to focus on them as it is their points. I’ve seen this argument made before, and it’s, quite frankly, just not true.
People already restart games if they think they are going to an undesirable state. So having a save feature does nothing but save people the heartache of having to restart the entire thing over. I’ve seen people get upset and not finish really good games because there was no save feature. So a game that they were enjoying became frustrating. and as for writers being forced to write linearly… see the next point.
And there is nothing forcing any author to alter their story because saves were enabled. To say that enabling a save feature will destroy games because creators will start to write linearly is a logical fallacy. I’ve never seen an author on here state that a save system would ruin their writing. In fact, I’ve seen authors struggle to put in some kind of checkpoint system so that they can entice people to play.
tldr: The fact is people already restart games for multiple reasons, so there’s no reason that a save system would ruin a game. And as for the claims that it will forever ruin COGs, that’s just fearmongering.
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Like the other user I do use Steam and Steam hacks in lieu of proper save games. As I’ve remarked on before on the Hosted Games on Steam thread if I had to play on a mobile device or more to the point a “smart” phone the games are nearly unplayable for me as I seem to tend to mis “swipe” and enter the wrong or at least an unintended choice a lot of the times.
While a part of that is no doubt down to me being clumsy and hamhanded with tiny touch screen phones I do believe it is highly frustrating to enter the choice you don’t want by mistake hours into or near the ending of a long game.
That being said I do appreciate @Mary_Duffy 's point that anything CoG may or may not choose to do about implementing save systems isn’t going to come quick or easy.
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We should change the thread name to INSULT MARA THE THREAD. Like seriously @spunkycatninja do you think is mature doing a ENTIRE post where only point is disacredite me with negative wording and veiled insults and calling me names. ?
I will not flagging more posts as is stupid as the thread is a witch hunt as is made from beginning to just present a united front SAVE IS AWESOME AND ONLY TRUTH IS THE PURITY OF LOVE SAVING.
If save is implemented games become far popular and in general with time will become less and less quality and less and less literature to become virtual novels More games than writing.
I would love that remains the same with a cheat mode for people that wants have a determined result made a chapter selection or a password something.
But with stats and all customizations I think would turn complicated implementation that system. However i think saves will turn inevitable as most people love saves and save everywhere so eventually that will be added. And it will be a good economic choice as would make audiences grown to a more mainstream audiences. So saves will win at the end
I think that saves can be really useful, you can even make it so that certain achievements can only be achieved if you have saves disabled.
I don’t think that choice of games going mainstream is bad, I mean, it can only benefit the company and writers. They would get more money and more people will want to make their own games, and even if they’re bad, there would still be hidden gems there.
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It will be good for company maybe not so much for quality as more games will be needed also it will turn more mainstream in theme and more political correctness to catering a more general audience. I don’t think that is bad and is inevitable.
However if the question is I like the idea? No I am tired of videogames being watered down to point there is no real rpgs anymore as games hold your hand and not make consequences matter. But i am a very grumpy woman with hard core unpopular opinions about gaming in general.
I removed your name because I’ve seen those very points you’ve brought up multiple times by others and not just you, and I wanted to address the points without you feeling attacked. There was a post a few up that was hostile in tone to you, and I wanted to avoid that, so I took your name off. As for the post itself, there was no veiled insults nor name-calling. I’m sorry if you felt there was.
I’m not so sure. I don’t think you have anything to worry about. People have been asking COG for a save system for years, and they haven’t budged from their stance despite the popularity of the requested feature. They’ve always had their reasons as to why they won’t do it: it’ll ruin the aesthetic of their interface; it’ll ruin the story as it’s meant to be told; they’d have to come up with a different one than dashingdon uses; etc.
It’s a bummer as I think it’d be more beneficial than anything, but it’s their system and company, and they’ll do what they think best. 
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The lack of saves does actively make me buy less COGs and Hosted. If I am not a 100 % sure that I will enjoy the game enough that multiple replays will be rewarding, I am not taking the chance. (The latest victim was Pon Para. I was unsure how the stat-class system worked and I did not want to get 2-3 into the game and find out that I screwed myself over, so I just skipped it.)
Also as I have said above, the lack of saves prevents me from roleplaying and doing anything, but sticking closely with my best stat. When I come to taking a risk in a hosted og cogs, I always judge the risk against, do I really want to risk having to start over? And the answer is usually no.
I have accepted far more negative consequences in Choice of rebels, because I know that I can start the chapter over than I have in any other COGs. In games without checkpoint/saves, I go - bad consequence time to start over.
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These two months were very eventful, seeing the release of huge projects left and right from 500k+ words from the fernweh saga game, to the 1million+ words of fallen hero and lords of infinity.
Massive games that needs hours upon hours of reading to make the choices that the reader much desires, and the experience made even more time consuming considering the alternate paths and choices put in by the huge efforts from our admirable and talented authors, that can be extremely frustrating if accidentally chosen an option that you dont like, forcing you to restart the whole game just for that. Which begs the question, when are we as consumers and fans of choicescript products as a whole, going to get a proper saving system after all these years?
More amazing projects are releasing in the coming months, some of them again being massive (the third installment of wayhaven for exe) and it makes you wonder when’s the comapny going to update its software and give both the readers and the writers a much needed quality of life improvement, that is a proper saving function, a system that have been an integral part of every digital game, since well the inception of them.
And please fully respectfully, there is no viable or logical exuse for why we dont have a save system implemented yet, immersiveness is a completely subjective thing depending entirely on the reader, and yet i see no objective reason why making a saving system could impend that. If you dont like to save your game simply dont use the tool? Or implement an option to toggle it off/on for accessiblity sake, if you want? Either way providing the tool would hurt absolutely no one in the process but would without a doubt help alot.
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The mods can decide which of the existing save system discussion threads could best host this. Just a couple of thoughts:
Using language like this is a little disingenuous. The inability to save in a CoG game isn’t a matter of CoG using old, out of date software that just needs an update. It’s a game design choice and has been from the outset.
I agree that the increasing length of CS games should raise the question of whether some sort of standardized checkpoint save would be a good addition, even if CoG still holds to its theory that a save-at-will system would undercut the consequentialness of choices. Maybe especially for HGs, which aren’t bound (even in theory) by the design principle of “there are no ‘losing’ pathways through the story, enjoy it and don’t worry about whether you picked ‘wrong’”.
When something’s totally subjective-- which I agree immersion is-- it can be impeded by lots of things, and there’s no objective reason to be had one way or the other. It’s fair to voice your perspective, but don’t mistake it for “objectivity.” CoG’s longtime answer on why they don’t offer a back button isn’t the sole “objective” word on immersiveness either, but it accurately describes how many people experienced the ability to undo a wrong choice. “Don’t like it? Don’t use it,” isn’t the only viable logic when it comes to adding features that could reduce the impact of these games’ core mechanic.
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Going forward, all discussion regarding saves in choice games should be posted here.
Thanks, everyone.
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I think implementating a save system is a lot easier then telling the authors to get good
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For what is worth, as a consumer, I do wish CoG would implement a save system.
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If not saves, then checkpoints. Maybe a script that can implement them in a game, a-la Dashington’s save system through CSIDE. As it stands, it’s often more beneficial to play the beta and drop the full game - in full game you can’t easily check all the things you want without code-diving or a full-on replay. The game is bought in either case, profit is made, this feature have been wanted for about several years now.
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Some foods for thoughts:
- Unless the writer is a “fresh blood”, COG and HG are becoming longer and wider;
- There are a lot more series planned and less self conclusive book;
- I dare to say that the stats and stats checks mechanic imply that there are good and bad out come;
- Even if it weren’t an issue, someone may want to change a few choices just for curiosity or for a specific out come;
- The current save sistem doesn’t even distinguish beetween saves and sequels, meaning that B1 for B2 saving exist even beetween B4 and B5;
- Forum members have been asking for a better save sistem for years;
Now allow me a small critic, I’m trying to be the most polite I can:
Maybe COG staff should consider taking the issue seriously instead of what it seems a “don’t fix what isn’t broken” attitude.
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I think, as these games continue to get longer and longer, more and more HG authors are going to want to incorporate checkpoint saves in their games. And, speaking as someone who has finished three games with checkpoints in them, I can say that creating a checkpoint save system in CS is an extremely tedious and laborious process, especially if your games have lots of variables. I for one would definitely support an update that incorporates some kind of automated checkpoint functionality in CS. Not only is it something that clearly many, many readers want, but it would also be a significant help and time-saver for authors, too.
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I’ve learned how to make checkpoints recently and I’m planning to include them in games that I make post Royal Affairs. As @Schliemannsghost says it’s doable though arduous to add them to an existing game; doing it as you write is easier.
When I have a minute I’ll make a how-to about implementing them. It’s a lot easier than I thought it would be.
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