Your post was a great read. It really was.
Today, I entered the thread expecting to have a good laugh but exited with slightly heavier, though gratified, heart.
2 Likes
I hate love triangles. Hate hate hate hate HATE them. Most of the time they detract from the plot, kill characterization, and have predictable outcomes (if the hero/ine is a Love Martyr, the “bad boy/girl” wins, if not, the “nice one” wins). And don’t get me started on the wishy-washy “oh how will I ever choose between them” whining that goes on when there are more important things to worry about (like, say, The Empire invading, your hometown being attacked, The End of the World As We Know It…)
That said, I have, on rare occasion, enjoyed a book with a love triangle if the triangle was interesting, such as Pride and Prejudice, where the “nice one” was actually a money-grubbing jerk and the “bad boy” was just socially inept; or Wuthering Heights, which showed just why love triangles were destructive. Zombie Exodus’s triangle of Candace/Carl/Jason was also enjoyable because a) it was a side-story…as it should be in a zombie apocalypse, and b) things weren’t black and white with it. If the love triangle was invoked for a reality show or something, like in The Hero Project, that was also fine, so long as it didn’t become the main character’s central focus.
-end rant-
So yeah, that was my big one. I have a lot more, but most of them–black and white morality, shonen upgrades, female leads whose bitchiness is supposed to make them strong–have been mentioned already.
There is one small one that I didn’t see mentioned: the single tear. You know, a character is dying or drowning in despair or something and they shed “a single crystal tear” because that’s supposed to show they’re human without making them seem super weak or while emphasizing their beauty or somesuch crap. No. That’s not how crying works and I am sick of it popping up everywhere.
1 Like
What’s interesting about that is despite the fantasy cliche of depicting humans as the “diplomatic” or “mercantile” race, we’re actually an incredibly violent and war-like species in real life. We’re just not as extreme about it as Orcs usually are. Since we’re a real species we have far more complexity than most depictions of Orcs.
We’re far closer to being Orcs than Elves or Dwarves. Why we aren’t the best of pals with our like-minded green chums is anyone’s guess. I can see why we’re at each other’s throats in likes of the Tolkienverse, since in that universe Orcs are more or less demonic beings in a way.
5 Likes
one thing I dont like are stories that claim to have gray morality,but are really just the different “protagonists” being different flavours of self serving jerks.Is it really that hard to make characters with sympathetic motives and goals that happend to conflict with eachother?
1 Like
I’d say it makes perfect sense that orcs and humans never get along for that very reason. Elves and Dwarves represent aspects of humanity that we hold as a virtue or at least find sympathetic. Orcs are our darkest urges. Not only that but one of the main reasons for our own violent natures is an extreme fear and hatred of the other. Elves are long lived, beautiful humans with pointy ears. Dwarves are short hairy humans with a knack for craftsmanship. Orcs are large hulking hairy green skinned, tusk faced extremely violent and ugly humans whose whole existence is based around presenting something similar enough to accept the existence of, but different enough to hate.
4 Likes
That self serving jerk part seems pretty realistic to me though. Only jerks tend to reach such positions of power. But I guess the closer two factions’ motives are, the less it would make sense for them not to cooperate or at least get out of each other’s hair, and when they don’t, they would just look foolish and stubborn. But of course it could be done. They could try a peaceful solution at first, but negotiations break down for whatever reason, things beyond their control happens and they are forced to battle over bureaucracy or honour, tradition, to appease their people, religion, etc. But I prefer the jerks really.
1 Like
the supposed purpose of a grey morality story is to have a story where the characters have both positive and negative traits instead of a traditional good vs evil story.the problem is that somethimes the writers become so eager writing a story where both sides have negative traits that they forgett to write characters with positive ones.What is supposed to be a gray vs gray stories often becomes a black vs black ones instead.You are free to disagree with me but this is a thread about things we personally dislike in stories
1 Like
Uhm, ah, yes. You’re right, sorry. Didn’t mean it like “hey I disagree!”. =P But if they turn out to be “black vs black” ones, then you just dislike grey morality stories that are handled badly, yes?
As for contributing to the actual thread, I too dislike monochromatic morals and generally dumbed down… things. Stuff.
1 Like
Some of my favorite ones: (or not favorite, depending on how you see it)
-
Defusing the bomb with 1 second to go on the timer. Just sometimes I wish someone cut the wrong wire and everything went boom.
-
Villain explains his actions: So the hero/heroine is defenseless, at the mercy of the villain and can just be shot/stabbed etc., but somehow they ask the villain why he/she is doing all this and the bad guy just feels generous enough to fill in all the gaps we’ve been wondering about all this while. Make the protagonists work to uncover those truths, don’t just have the villain give lengthy speeches at the worst time. Worst part is, most of the time these villains are supposed to be geniuses but then they go and do something like this.
-
Every high school story ending on prom night.
-
Rich kid at school that’s a quarterback or cheerleader being a bad guy. C’mon people.
-
Rivals becoming best friends: So there’s someone just as skilled and often times more popular than the protagonist. The two characters are always at odds with each other but after a fight or some major argument or life threatening situation, they become the best of friends. It’s okay to take away the hostility but they don’t necessarily have to become best pals.
3 Likes
I agree with most things said already but the one that I absolutely can’t stand is when the best friend of the PC has always been secretly in love with them and gets jealous when other people hit on the PC.
I just hope someone can pull it off someday…
2 Likes
Good thing modern animes like Dragon ball Z don’t do that cr… Oh wait…
1 Like
But anyway as far as cliches that i dislike
There’s really only a few that i despise as a base level
1 it was all a dream
2 When true heroism, or bravery is implied to be unique to one magical race or a certain demographic as opposed to a quality anyone can exhibit
3 The all humans are bastards trope
(I’m fine with the all human’s are flawed trope, but at the end of the day i believe one is what they make of them self)
4 Rousseau Was Right trope
while i agree that there are too many endings with the MC kissing his or her love intrest, for once in my life, i like to read a story that ends with the MC sits back in a comfy recliner and reflect on his or her accomplishments.
I dont know if its considered a cliche, but id like to see or read about a warrior class male MC getting knocked on his backside and publicly scolded by his tomboyish love intrest for being stubborn and that he should ask for help from time to time instead of having the lone wolf mentality where he up and leaves for a big one on one fight with the villain even if it gets him killed.
1 Like
- “Wise” characters speaking in broken Elizabethan English. Oh god.
- Holier-than-thou characters and their holier-than-thou occupations (generally the priests and divine healers who treat your character whilst voicing their unwanted opinions)
- All elves are racist, tree-hugging hippies.
- You are the Chosen One (admittedly, sometimes it can be pulled off well, but it’s difficult).
- Chinese characters painted as sly criminals who just want to build the cheapest, most unreliable products on the face of this planet.
- Traditional “damsel” characters which have been buffed so much by the author that she/he becomes a flat warrior queen whose defining character trait is that she/he doesn’t need someone to save her.
3 Likes
I can actually stand the whole Holier-than-thou thing. But only if the other character immediately berate or make fun of them for such a mentality. Or even better, fellow members of said holy thing berate the person.
1 Like
Yeah, but lets be honest, HTT characters are hardly interrupted (at least in novels) 
1 Like
Generally racist and sexist cliches. They’re hard to completely avoid, given that our society is basically steeped in that stuff, but… Yeah. I’m sick of that crap.
Oddly, I can’t think of any “bad cliche” so to speak. All cliches are kind of like references to our (sometimes fictional) culture and other works, and always make things recognizable and calmingly repetitive for me.
Maybe I just have a really poor taste in everything.
1 Like
macguffin.i hate them with passion
1 Like
Can you elaborate a bit, racist or sexist in what respect?
1 Like