@cyanide
Different people have different perspectives and ways of coping with their pain. To assume every victim wishes to be seen and treated as one is nothing but a stereotype and one that is really not that helpful in the long run. This doesn’t mean abusers shouldn’t be punished, they should, but rather than victimizing and sheltering every person who has been through a lot, one should find positive ways to help them cope. That way we’re strengthening them as an individual and allowing them to return to a normal life with less triggers and more trust in themselves.
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I never said it wasnt valid though. I asked if they believed that releasing such titles might not end up at the advantage of abusers more than the victims because of the percentage of people dealing with the problem that way.
If there is a warning, they do not have to see it, there would be no absolute further cause of misery, not everyone who experienced an event like that would react the same way either, they’re not robots with an automated reaction to things nor did their experiences play out the exact same way.
I’d compare it to people who wrote books with events compared to the holocaust or about the actual event. Like George Lucas’s Order 66 and storm-troopers. Or Rowling’s wizard supremacy and kill all muggles.
Isn’t that more of their body-type as in a pygmy fetish? I mean I’ve seen a few adults who looked like kids and heard of people with bodies that looked even similar, this conversation reminds me of a previous shortest man in the world, he looked like a baby and went around in public smoking, cursing, and sitting on a motorcycle 
though now we have mini-me who still looks like a child.
Didn’t it make a lot of money specifically off the controversy it caused becoming #1 on steam for a bit?
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I ran a small online community for years that was devoted to hybristophilia - the fetish for cruel, dangerous or criminal partners. It was focused on roleplaying and fiction, though it ended up functioning as a secondary support group for people like me who had survived various things.
I would never suggest that an abuse survivor be forced to try viewing/reading erotic material as a form of therapy; for years after I was first attacked, I cried when I tried to watch hentai, and I couldn’t stand even hearing the R-word. Seeking out this kind of fiction happened on my own time, as a way to deal with my thoughts. Years later, being able to read “Deliverance” without having a panic attack was a victory.
I have also been in therapy for years, with a sex-positive psychiatrist who I’ve been able to talk to about all of this. He was the one who first reassured me that I wasn’t doing anything dangerous, as long as I wasn’t forcing myself into anything, and gave me a name for why it worked: “counterphobic conditioning.”
As for whether it makes abusers worse, I suppose it might depend on how the material is written, but I don’t think so. Of everyone I met who shared my interests, a fair number of them were sadomasochists, but that didn’t make them cruel people or less empathetic to actual victims; it was something that affected their fantasy life, and fiction was their release valve. A phrase we had for it, sadists and survivors alike, for filling that urge: “Feeding the demons.”
For an abuser, anything can be a trigger to abuse; Ted Bundy blamed swimsuit magazines, even though he lived in a time when BDSM porn was available. There’s a sociological theory that access to darker pornography actually makes societies less sexually violent. I’m not sure if I entirely believe that, but I don’t think erotic stories are going to make somebody do something they wouldn’t have before.
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Controversy only gets you so far most of the time.
I mean sometimes you can knock it out of the park with it, but you really need more than just that alone. Most of the time you’re going to hit a wall eventually and there’s limitations with working on controversy alone since it doesn’t tend to last.
I mean, I’m sure the game made them enough money to make them happy with what they accomplished, but the profit part probably still paled in comparison if they had made something that didn’t involve killing innocent people.
Basically you might burn bright for awhile, but you don’t last as long.
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Is Pygmy better?
Isn’t that the consumer’s responsibility than? I mean there’s a rating for media and parents even then to help distinguish common morality. How do you “know” he was impacted negatively? If he was willing to do it in the first place, how do you know he wouldn’t have gone off sooner or later? One of my first games was a game about snuff “Manhunt” would I have been able to just blame the creator if I turned into a serial killer? Or if I regularly harmed people?
Depends how niche it is I guess or enjoyable, and if you’re relying on the controversy.
I would use ‘small people’, not sure how politically correct they are but I feel like its better than calling them midgets.
You are ignoring and banalising a lot of stuff I’m saying.
When I mean loli fans I mean actual fans of children body. I would know I’m a sado-maso man who enjoy consenting adults wearing pastel dress and wigs. What I speak about are those who use graphical images of prepubescent and sex toys at the image of childrens (that do exist if you look it up) with the mindset that there is no problem with it. I know people like that and its gross.
My problem is not that the content of the work would offend me, its that actual real life criminal of the worst kind could use that for their own personal pleasure in such an apologist way. JK Rowling didnt show graphical scenes of people being killed by the thousands or rape just for the heck of it. She used the event in a respectful way that didnt scream that it was okay to do.
I dont mind that people use this kind of content to cope, I care that people make cash with this kind of content while real life *ssholes consume it as if it was all fine.
But that was one of many special case. Ted Bundy was problematic from the begining at a high intensity. What I’m scared of is people banalising the subject and becoming apologists, or further pushing an already problematic person.
Wont be needed because I already believe you. What I would like is a percentage of people who cope that way and those whom it actualy hurt more. If they want to use it okay but they shouldnt have to buy it. We might not be able to keep people from consuming it but we sure as hell can make sure *ssholes dont make cash with it.
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What kind of content do you mean? The content that messed me up the most as a kid were the kind of messages that appeared casually on TV or on the radio. A casual song about drinking and date rape is way more confusing than a story about sex that makes it clear that something Wrong Is Happening.
This whole “artificial depictions of children” thing is a vast and complicated snake pit. I’d just like to add an anecdote I heard awhile back, to make it more confusing, and then step carefully away again. When Second Life first cracked down on underage avatars having sex, they discovered that its main proponents were people who had been abused as children, and seemed to be using this role play as therapy. Just… gonna leave that there.
Not all erotic stories are created the same, and not all people who use it do so for the same reasons. In any case, someone who creates something deserves to be compensated by the people that read and enjoy it. Since it is such a difficult medium to get right, I find it especially important to support authors who do write it well.
People who wouldn’t be helped by this kind of material shouldn’t read it; period. If someone thinks it might help, they should try it, and put the book down if it doesn’t. It’s not for everyone.
There is no connection between having a fetish for violent acts, and being an apologist for perpetrators. The perceived link is what keeps a lot of people, men and women, from talking openly about this kind of thing. It’s shameful to be seen as siding with the enemy. But a lot of what draws people to this kind of genre is that it’s wrong - violence is horrifying, evil. It’s staring fear in the face.
If you read accounts of rapists, murderers, and other violent criminals in the real world, the vast majority do not believe they were doing anything wrong. They would not believe you if you told them their sexuality was abnormal. In my experience, what fuels perpetrators is not extreme pornography, but cultural messages that makes it seem that this behavior is perfectly normal.
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I fail to see what’s so wrong with this. The reason that there is an age of consent is because a child can be easily manipulated/might not understand the consequences of their actions. It’s nothing to do with the body. If you are romanticising raping a child, yes, that is morally wrong, but its stupid to get upset at someone who, through no choice of their own, simply prefers a smaller body type.
I meant child. I literaly wrote child and precised that I’m one of those persons who prefer smaller bodies. Its two radicaly different things.
Even if they did without the experience of those they are writing about and with the knowledge that they are doing so not to help but for their own monetary gain?
It does to the one using it.
That said I’m out of here. I tried to make a point and half the answers I receive ignore what I wrote to tell me stuff I already agree with or sound scarily apologist and I sure as hell aint comfortable being told that jacking off to the drawing of a child is okay just because its not a real one.
Thank you Sashira for actualy bringing something to the conversation but sadly I still have a hard time accepting people making money with these subjects and I probably wont change on this. I hope you guys can come to a conclusion that doesnt exclude survivors without banalising the thing to *ssholes but I seem to be one of the only person here with a problem with that so its a lost cause.
I ask all of you not to answer to this please. I am already frustrated enough as it is and I wont answer anyway so it will be ignored.
I don’t see the difference. If it’s in cartoon form it’s basically the same thing. A drawing does not have an age.
“Helpful” is a rather subjective term. Einstein never intended for his formulas to be used for ill, yet someone eventually came and deduced how to make an atomic bomb out of them. The same example applies here but in inverse - a silly book can still provide some distraction from the harshness that is real life, even if just for a brief moment, it merely depends on the perspective of the individual that reads it.
If you’re specifically mentioning bodies…Isn’t that what I said? Childlike bodies happens among people with dwarfism.
That the creators officially state their age as low? Plus isn’t the whole stigma of it consent? An animated figure never deals with that.
They could do that for/with anything. Why would you care what people you consider the worst of the worst do? Plus between them looking deliberately for a very weird kink and going after actual children I’d rather have the former. Then we’d also be able to be suspicious of them and catch them easier if something does happen or is suspected to happen.
It’s not like they don’t know that they’ll be punished by going after someone below their local age of consent.
Or someone violent just playing violent games and watching movies instead of being a violent criminal.
I have yet to see a justified I killed a-random-person-for-fun murder. And again I really don’t think people who are willing to kill will be affected by anything like that, especially with so many sources telling them it’s wrong.
My google had more of a “Generally but not always, and don’t use it in reality” to most of the searches.
Definitely. I’m sure everyone who helped the world didn’t have the good of humanity as their only goal.
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Changing this to a general reply…
You can’t know another person. You can only judge what they wrote, not why.
Let’s switch gears for a moment - we’ve been talking about porn long enough. Jim Thompson, America’s Dimestore Dostoevsky. Meaning, he was a hack author that wrote about crime and thrills, was quickly forgotten, and later rediscovered as being a pretty damn good author.
Almost everyone in his novels is a terrible person. Creepily, interchangeably - like they’re bleeding into each others’ universes, like it might be all the same story. His Not A Nice Guy steals, kills, takes advantage of women. He’s an all-around loser. Everyone else is reliably untrustworthy and screws him over right back.
And yet it’s compelling. You spend a couple of hours in the mind of That Guy, recognizing all the while that you never, ever want to be like him. The real value of the book is when you put it down, and start thinking about everyone you know, and how they’re more real than whoever you just read about. How you’re different from The Guy, and where exactly he went wrong.
If you hadn’t heard him explain how convincingly he’s an asshole, you wouldn’t have the space to have that conversation with yourself. And you’re kinda glad, shitty as he is, that you met him.
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Was it while he was alive?
I honestly love seeing things from a villain protagonist pov when taken seriously and not lauded for atrocities. They always seem more like people to me than the overall nice guys I usually see. I mean I don’t expect to commonly meet people like that, but they are easier to believe than a paragon of virtue or someone who acts tough and is the hero. And I especially agree with contrasting your life with theirs at the end, in a realistic setting.
You and I are talking about different things. I apologize for the confusion.
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