April 2025 Writer Support Thread

[izzily]

@LiliArch

You just had to make me hungry, didn’t you.

OTL I seriously typed ‘snack’ instead of ‘slack’, huh?

@HarrisPS

@izzily A lot of this is relatable to me, including being a nightmare boss to myself at times!

I’m fortunate to have a wife who will demand I be nicer. XD

I appreciate the thoughts. It’s honestly good to just get some of this out of my head and off the hamster wheel.

@HarrisPS

That can be tricky. With the railroading example, it might be that it’s possible to tweak things so that the PC has more chances to make self-expressive choices, or maybe do more callbacks to their earlier choices to help players understand that the game is paying attention to them. “Railroading” can mean a lot of things - it could also mean that it would be beneficial to add a moment of agency between two points at which there isn’t so much agency. An agency sandwich, if you will.

Yeah a lot of my struggles are that like, I don’t know if what’s causing this feeling is something that’s to an extent intended. You’re supposed to be feeling kind of pulled around, but I’m not sure what (if anything) I need to do be doing to make it feel like the choices within that are substantial. LIke, what always seems to slow me down is digging into too many branches. but yeah, maybe I’ve gotta make the callbacks more obvious. or something.

@HarrisPS

This is a really hard one. I find it helpful to do the thing of seeing how many people are saying the same thing,

More than one, therefore EVERYONE /j

@Anna_B

For this one, do they need to pick just one character to interact with? Can they experience this small interaction with two or three of the characters present? Unless the characters are in a hurry, they probably have more time than than just one 5 minute conversation.

it’s been one at a time so far. I probably could do more than one. My brain just doesn’t like it because I’ve already written myself into a corner with how the interactions start/finish, which I’d have to redo entirely to make them modular.

@Anna_B

When the character has no choice but to do something, give a choice about how they feel. Are they annoyed to be doing something? Excited? Sad? Passive? After 6 “pages” of the book, there should be some sort of choice. That’s about the maximum before it starts getting boring. But ideally they won’t have to wait that long very often, if at all.

See here’s the thing, I don’t think it is like that? I’ve tried very, very hard to keep it to a maximum of two “pages” between at least some kind of choice. I don’t think I’ve ever had as many as four pages sans choices. Maybe it’s the getting pushed/ordered around?

@Anna_B

One thing you can do is not just show them hanging around and having fun. Friends do have fun, but they also have a history together, they know about each other’s lives, and they care about each other in serious moments.

@Habbie

But this one specifically, someone once told me the best way to show friendship/connection/relationship is through banter. Whether it’s playful or sarcastic, it shows that those people know each other well. I’ve implement this ton for my stories, and they’re fun to write.

The scene with these characters is unfortunately way too tightly packed for me to be able to do more. It’s a flashback, with a progression that feels like I can’t really add anything else; the original version was actually gonna be longer and the pacing just got completely screwed until I rewrote it. That’s what I mean with the like ‘Agh!’, I thought I did show the dynamic and the banter and how these guys fit together (including with the MC)

@LiliArch

I’m not sure CSIDE has updated to that yet.

Oh, I hoped it had. Darn it.

@LiliArch

…the forum is complaining about me replying too much in this topic again, and it’s only the second day of the month.

psh, what does the forum know?

[valence]

@izzily

I don’t know if what’s causing this feeling is something that’s to an extent intended. You’re supposed to be feeling kind of pulled around, but I’m not sure what (if anything) I need to do be doing to make it feel like the choices within that are substantial.

If you’re getting multiple people complaining about a lack of agency - specifically in a way that you can’t solve easily with a minor branch or two - then maybe try looking at what expectations are being established by your game’s summary in its WIP thread.

As a reader, the moments where I find myself chafing against a story’s fundamental structure tend to be points where I realize that I had mismatched expectations about what kind of story/character/arc I was going to be playing.

A note specific to the Drink Your Villain Juice WIP

The superhero genre tends to lean heavily on the power-fantasy side of IF mechanics, at least from my observations.

If players are walking in expecting to play an “I’ve got superpowers and am unconstrained by the law” type story then they might feel a bit at odds playing through a conflict that instead features a very trapped MC forced to obey an outside group that imposes its own rules on them. (Just like, well, the law.) It may be helpful to consider what else could be included in the summary that will key readers in to that aspect of the narrative and see if that’s enough to fix the issue.

I’m playing through your demo now and am quite enjoying the horror!

[Habbie]

@izzily

That’s what I mean with the like ‘Agh!’, I thought I did show the dynamic and the banter and how these guys fit together (including with the MC)

I guess it comes down with the feedback now. Without knowing what scene actually is, I can’t say much about it. Was the lack of friendship-feels a common feedback among your readers? Or maybe just one reader who may have missed it? (As a reader, there are times when words just gloss over me, and doesn’t notice things until a reread). It wouldn’t hurt to ask them to specify too to get a sense of what seems to be missing if you want.

---

Update on my project, I’ve finally have the structure. I’ve also downloaded a like mind-mapping app on my phone so there’s that. I’m still struggling to make my work more game-y though. I can’t think of a gameplay for it. Inventory management? Coin-based system? Which things I didn’t like so I doubt I’ll implement something like that. Hopefully I’m able to think about something lol

On the side note, I’m starting on my AI spaceship side project, which focuses on gameplay rather than a narrative. I’m using it as a practice to more coding and to get an idea how would I do for my main project.

[Nocturnal_Stillness]

I’m trying to get some sleep (it’s 3am here), but I’ve got Quiver on my mind trying to decide the combat system.

Well, I’ve just had an idea that won’t let me go. I’ve only jotted some notes down but the basic concept revolves around the idea that

Robin is constantly pushing their luck

Robin’s success is now tied to their luck.

LUCK starts at 100 and reduces with each action.

Each action sequence has a set result based on the level of luck Robin has left.

80-100 = Best Result.
60-79 = Good Result.
40-59 = Okay Result.
20-39 = Bad Result.
0-19 = Worst Result.

Luck recovers over time, and certain choices can increase or lower your luck.

This concept revolves around Robin pushing their luck to the limit.

Actions cost either 5 or 10 luck.

If ambidexterity switching hands the first time during a single combat scenario increases luck by 20.

I feel this will add a nice risk v reward to the game, especially during heists (do you stay back longer for more trinkets but risk a guard being able to beat you easier? Or will you flee before your luck runs out).

[zozopuff]

@izzily

That’s what I mean with the like ‘Agh!’, I thought I did show the dynamic and the banter and how these guys fit together (including with the MC)

Without seeing the scene in front of me, I might not be much help, but maybe the scene could use the mention of an inside joke or comment that the readers might not understand until present day MC thinks about it/says it as an aha moment. Just a shorthand mention of a shared experience that has everyone with their unique reaction. It might help create the idea that they have more between them than that particular scene?

@Nocturnal_Stillness

I feel this will add a nice risk v reward to the game, especially during heists (do you stay back longer for more trinkets but risk a guard being able to beat you easier? Or will you flee before your luck runs out).

I think this could be fun!! Especially if it’s outlined in the first chapters about how lucky Robin is and maybe some forewarning from one of the band that one day Robin’s luck will run out if they’re not careful! (I think it could also be explained in a way that luck = energy and if you run out you lose type scenario!)

[Hazel]

@izzily

“I’m feeling like I don’t have much agency”/“There’s a lot of railroading” (Well, crud! What do I do now? Like yeah the MC doesn’t have a lot of choice on like, where to go, cause they’re under orders, but they can choose how to play that out and interact with people, and there are a bunch of different variations of most things, especially in the combat scenes)

To this, I would ask, “What specifically did you want to do/say, that the game didn’t give you an option?”

If the answer is something like, “I want to skip the space cop agency ‘mandatory’ briefing and search my suspicious boss’s office for clues that they’re secretly a double agent for the space-moose cartel!” Well, damn. That’s a pretty good idea.

If the answer is more like, “I want to option to ditch the ancient wizard and his prophecy and let the Dread Lord of Tickles bring about Armageddon!” Well, dear, then play another game, please. This one is called Nemesis of the Tickle-pocalypse!! so you can see what you’re getting into.

Now, if the answer is along the lines of, “I want the PC to be meaner/less friendly to your favorite NPC, because I don’t like him, for my own obscure reasons”, then you’ve fallen into one of the classic author traps. You gotta let people hate your characters, no matter how much you love them yourself. And there’s no way to ‘prove’ to the reader that the character is really good and likable, not without inadvertently turning them into a ‘teacher’s pet’ of sorts.

@izzily

“I don’t like the interactions between [group of friends] and it feels ‘tell’ that they’re friends, because they don’t seem to act like it.” (Agh! but I have limited chances to depict that! I thought I did a good job showing that they mostly get along!)

This one doesn’t make sense to me, but it could be a matter of the reader phrasing their criticism poorly, rather than the critique having no teeth. How can it ‘feel tell’ when you’re showing the friends interacting with each other? Maybe it feels ‘awkward’ or ‘unnatural’, but that could be down to the varying ways that different friend groups express themselves. Lots of peer groups establish rapport by good-natured ribbing, sarcastic put-downs, and pranks. These are valid friend dynamics, but they’re not true to my experience–because I actively avoid such groups.

So maybe your friendship dynamic feels unnatural to the reader because it’s unfamiliar to their experience. Our readers are mostly casual readers, not professional literary critics, so they have a limited toolbox with which to express their reservations. (That’s something I also have to keep reminding myself of.)

[LiliArch]

@Hazel

space-moose

I want space-moose! I may need to write space-moose.

(I already have space werewolves, space dragons, and space dinosaurs, so why not?)

[Nocturnal_Stillness]

@zozopuff

I think this could be fun!! Especially if it’s outlined in the first chapters about how lucky Robin is and maybe some forewarning from one of the band that one day Robin’s luck will run out if they’re not careful! (I think it could also be explained in a way that luck = energy and if you run out you lose type scenario!)

Yeah there is even the perfect moment in Chapter Two where the guard nearly gets to you and Will saves you which I can add a line or two about luck running out.

Robin can’t die until the last few chapters so early fails affect other people or will result in an scar/injury.

I think this is what I was originally after so excited to work on it after I finish work.

[LiliArch]

I got a new keyboard, yay! Hopefully that’ll make my writing easier.

[Nocturnal_Stillness]

Hope it helps. I got myself a new pc and keyboard to replace my laptop and its helped a lot

[LiliArch]

It should help me sit more comfortably at least.

[Nocturnal_Stillness]

I just need to get my cat to settle down now, as he loves sitting on my lap the moment I sit down to write lol

[AletheiaKnights]

In the absence of photographic evidence, I do not believe this alleged “cat” exists.

[Cat-Toes]

@Habbie

I’m still struggling to make my work more game-y though. I can’t think of a gameplay for it. Inventory management? Coin-based system?

If you don’t want to make it more gamey, I’m sure people would still enjoy it anyway. Don’t force yourself to implement something you won’t like.

@Nocturnal_Stillness

just need to get my cat to settle down now, as he loves sitting on my lap the moment I sit down to write lol

I used to have one that would climb up on my shoulders snd wrap around my neck while I wrote.

[Nocturnal_Stillness]

Cat Tax Sunbathing edition

Bonus Tax

[AletheiaKnights]

Ah, I see now that you do in fact have a cat. You may proceed.

[Hazel]

@LiliArch

I want space-moose! I may need to write space-moose.

This is a known risk of spitballing wild, uninhibited ideas.

[Dvalor53]

Look up Cattops. There is a trend to get cat’s small laptops or things that look like them to help stop this. I wouldn’t give them a full laptop, but something that looks like it might help.

[LiliArch]

…I think I actually originally planned space moose ten years ago, so this one was just revoking a memory.

[mcoorlim]

Beware of the incredibly offensive student newspaper comic Space Moose. Avoid unplanned associations.