Only fair if he gets fried, too. See how he likes it.
11 Likes
I remember that when I first played AMR 2 I had the same mentality, and played a MC that was pretty indifferent to all that situation (also friendly with the arcadians and that could even romance Leon again)
In the second I just started thinking why my MC should be nice to them after everything and now they just want to run away and enjoy their life (and beat the hell out of Leon)
Good thing that I specialized in thaum
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It’s kinda funny how this keeps slipping my mind but he literally killed MC; my mage was one of the nicest guys around, but being killed in an excruciatingly painful way by one of your closest friends isn’t something you just forgive and forget. He’ll be lucky if I only hit him with a fist of the dark lord or make him slap himself with a glyph of subjugation.
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Being killed so violently by the guy you’re falling in love with/in love with isn’t exactly something you forgive or forget, either.
Yes, he was in a difficult situation, but he made no real effort to get to the bottom of things. Part of being a leader is keeping a cool head and not just flying off the handle because those who follow you are freaking out and demanding action now.
He didn’t launch an investigation, nor did he attempt to prove that the MC (either his friend or the supposed love of his life) was innocent. He never questioned why this person who had done so damned much for his kingdom suddenly did something so terrible, never wondered if, maybe, someone had found a way to control the MC. Nope, he just came in, acted like a gigantic prick, then murdered the MC is the most horrendous way possible.
That wasn’t justice–that was outright murder, and the fact that he burned the MC alive makes him a fucking psychopath. If he had had any heart whatsoever, and had any feeling left at all for the MC, even if he decided he had to execute them, he could’ve granted them a better death in lieu of all they had done for the people up until then. But, again, Leon just went about it like a hate-filled psycho.
So fuck that guy. There is literally nothing he could do at this point that would make my MC forgive him for what he did to her. She wants him to suffer as much as she did, and see how it feels to be treated like that by someone who supposedly loved you at one time. And that bitch that works for him is on the proverbial chopping block, too.
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Its been explained basically all spirits want to keep living and you as a spiritist then use your mana to give them a physical form that they will inhabit to do what you wish just so they could kind of live again
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the thing that really sticks in my brain about the bbq spiral was that like. leon completely believes the “mc just murdered the saintess for no obvious reason” theory hook, line, and sinker.
i totally understand how you buy that if you don’t know mc: this rando wildly powerful SALANTIR mage shows up out of nowhere, ingratiates themselves with the most powerful ppl in the country, and is totally on your side and not suspicious at all no one worry it’s fine. naturally, you’re waiting for the other shoe to drop the whole time, and when it happens, you don’t really go looking for explanations bc it fits with what you already expected.
but like. if you know mc, you should know better. mc had way better opportunities to strike worse blows against param at any time if they’d wanted. ilya and saine know that, so why doesn’t leon?
he doesn’t like carefully consider the situation and decide there’s no way to appease the church but to burn mc alive. in that moment, he BELIEVES mc is a monster who was set against him the whole time, even after telling them how he trusts them absolutely (or even that he loves them!) very recently before. what changed?? what has him so ready to believe the worst of mc even while being in love with them?
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A lot of rambling about why Leon is a big dumb-dumb:
A lot of "bacause"
A lot of people seem to justify Leon’s actions by saying that, he only executed us because he thought there would be a rebellion, because killing a religious figure is still a major crime. So even knowing the context of Leon just winning a war and basically liberating his kingdom, paramians would still question his reign and would probably try to have their own way, because they would think that their king is under Mage’s influence, and since we are Mir’s “relative” it’s not hard to believe.
The problem with this theory, is that it’s very hard to see Leon as someone who would think that far ahead (at least for me). Even as someone who possesses great leadership skills, Leon never wanted the responsibility of being a King (Or at least I think so, based on the facts that he ran away from same responsibilities for a simple adventure’s life, and him being nervous about taking his brother’s mantle after winning the war). I think that, if he had his way, he would simply reject the crown, but because he is now regarded as paramians’ savior, he simply must live up to his Older brother’s rule and people’s overall expectations.
Because of all that, he never stops and thinks about Saintess’ murder and possible Mage’s motivations, simply because he is afraid people would hate him for anything that is not our immediate execution.
So yes, I still think that Leon shouldn’t be forgiven so easily, as some people forgive him in this forum.
TL;DR Leon’s decision on our execution is purely emotional one, simply because he didn’t try anything to find evidence/motivation etc. about Saintess’ murder.
16 Likes
Well, even if Leon did his best to investigate, I don’t see where or how he should’ve gotten proof. Sure, he probably could have waited for Ilya to drink that magic potion to reveal things, but time was against him and the law along with the people demanded quick justice. It was mentioned while visited us in the cell, that he doubted things. Yet he had to follow the law and appear strong before the people. He also didn’t place an arcane collar on us, nor did he read our minds. I’m sorry, but those mages in book 2 seem a lot scarier. I guess at the end of the day, it all depends on your own heart.
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It always comes down to that rotten trick…that somehow everybody with a connection to arcadia knows how to use…except the mc. 
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On that note, here’s what probably should have happened
MC: “I didn’t do this because I wanted to, Leon, you’re one of my closest friends, you have to believe I wouldn’t do something like this without good reason. I just need you to trust me.”
Leon: “I’m sorry, but I can’t do that. How can I accept that you killed the saintess for good reason? How do I know you don’t want to destroy Param like your sister?”
MC: “First off, step sister. Second, Leon, you are the f**king KING of the country, if I really wanted to damage Param, I would’ve just killed you and Saine years ago, and you know I could have.”
Leon: “I…well you…damn, I can’t argue against that. Well, I obviously can’t let you go after this, even if I fully believed you, the church wants your head on a pike.”
MC: “sigh Of course they do…look, can you at least launch an investigation? A trial is pointless, we all know I did it, but could you at least look into the circumstances? Find a motive? I can’t explain, but trust me, it’s a good one.”
Leon: “And if we find nothing?”
MC: “Then my life is forfeit.”
Leon: “…Okay. As your friend, I’ll do this much for you.”
MC: “Thank you. Also, if you do go through with the execution, could you just cut off my head? I’d really appreciate if it was quick and painless.”
Leon: “You won’t go in your sleep, but I’ll see what I can do.”
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Returning to the long-standing discussion of music. I think this music video fits A Mage Reborn.
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I wanted to ask, a lot of people say there should have been a trail but…why?.
It’s pretty open and shut. Ignoring your route you at least killed antes men and the saintess in front of people. And I’m not going to apply my modern day veiw on justice to a medieval setting. Just because your motive is Unclear doesn’t really mean anything
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The thing about crimes is, unless you’re completely out of your mind, every person has a motive for committing them. Basically, MC just did a 180 and went from self sacrificing hero to anti-param murderer in like a month, that’s not something that just happens; so either MC completely snapped, or they had some reason to kill the saintess. If it wasn’t out of hatred for param or hatred for the saintess, then it’d have to be pretty good motivation to walk into the most guarded area in the country to kill an important religious figure. If they figured that much out, and delved deeper into the possible reasons, they’d possibly realize that it was a necessity (and totally Ante’s fault) that the saintess was killed; to make a more modern comparison, no one would kill the pope publicly unless they had a darn good reason, really hated him, or was outright insane.
tl;dr: either MC snapped and went on a murder spree, or had a really good reason to pull a stunt like this without an escape plan or a way to avoid incrimination, and the latter is more likely than the former.
4 Likes
I mean, why wouldn’t Leon assume that the MC just snapped or something? He says that he would have let the MC go, staged an execution and everything, if only they offered some sort of explanation. But none comes. Sure, Leon could have trusted us anyway, should have trusted… But in his eyes, shouldn’t have the MC offered him the same trust? As if in to rely on their friends and confine in them, whatever is weighting on them, whatever has pushed them to do such a terrible crime? In Leon’s eyes it’s the MC who broke the contract, so to speak, by refusing to talk and to confess their true reasons.
And I don’t know why everybody is so sure that there were no investigation, I guess, if we haven’t heard anything about it, we can assume there was none… But even if there were - there are no experts on the Arcadian magic in Param. Nobody would be able to say: “Listen, the MC is probably silent because there is a curse preventing them from speaking”. So the only things to see are a dead saintess and ten dead secret agents. And a witness who saw us doing the deed after killing at least ten people. Yeah, it just doesn’t look good.
Plus the revolt is a very plausible thing, not a popular one, but a noble one. We know that Parami nobles like to intervene in successions, that they like to pit royal heirs against each other, we know they hated the Mage for ascending to power even before the war. Imagine how much the nobility hates the Mage by the end of the war. And if Leon is in love with them? That’s just the worst case scenario, really. And while Leon is a dumb-dumb (maybe a bit autistic and/or demisexual, because his social skills are… a bit lacking, mhm), he is not an idiot. You can’t be a good general if you can’t read and predict your opponents. You can’t win while being an underdog if you don’t have a plan. And when Leon and Saine left to let Julius have his throne in peace, Saine was still basically a kid. I believe that it was Leon who chose to do it, and not just because he wanted to have fun, but because he knew he needed to protect both of his brothers. So yeah, he would have understood how much pressure there was… and he wasn’t able to justify doing the good thing instead of the right thing when he didn’t have a reason for it. Because Mage weren’t able to give him one.
13 Likes
Being a Commander and being a King are different things, and, I am sorry, but I just can’t see Leon as someone who would sit and think about every possibility and go “Hmm yes, judging by my possible peasant revolts chart, the safest option is to simply execute my comrade/close friend/loved one”. Maybe it’s just how I see this character but oh well.
Also, I never said that he should immediately release us like nothing happened, that would be dumb even for Leon. He could have simply kept us in a cell until at least some revelation would come out. Ilya managed to learn about out curse all on her own so yea, I think they could have figured it out in lets say 1-2 months span. If Leon would be still scared about the revolt, he could have put up a staged execution and continue his investigation “in secret”.
I am not saying that, what Leon did was 100% wrong, I am just saying that he wasn’t really thinking straight at the moment he decided to kill us. At that moment he had an ultimatum: Release Mage and fail his old brother and his entire Kingdom OR Execute Mage to secure trust and hope of paramians.
19 Likes
Got to say, if your a king and you don’t take the threat of a possible peasant revolution seriously, you won’t be king long, and this isn’t a simple “let them eat cake” moment either
On another note if I see someone steal something it doesn’t matter thier motivation, If they were just stealing to feed their family I would have mercy but Leon can’t. He’s the apex of the legal hierarchy and in this day and age a thief gets his hands cut off. No if ands or buts about it.
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Resisting the urge to debate law and politics of a medieval fantasy setting
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People keep saying that what Leon did is totally logical for a ruler to do but, fuck my life, I do not think so. You shouldn’t just kill powerful people you don’t like without getting to the root of things. There was no guarantee that MC acted on their own and that there will be no continuation after the Saintess’ “assassination”. For all we know MC’s “evil mage allies” could arrive next month through spirit gates to murder Ilya in her sleep who is a next candidate for the Saintess position. You MUST investigate to keep your subjects safe, it was not a matter of a peasant killing their neighbor over two copper coins, it’s a matter of a national scale!!! MC is an extremely powerful mage with a suspicious undefined past, you can’t just kill them and call it a day unless you’re an absolute moron of a ruler. It’s like killing a powerful noble’s underling who didn’t yet tell you anything: you didn’t solve the problem, nor did you escape the consequences. So guess what, because the king didn’t do his homework my MC is pretty fucking pissed and is coming back with his new shiny allies to do some magical mischief 
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Counterpoint number one: not peasant, but aristocratic, because we know that Parami noble do like their machinations and hate the Mage;
Counterpoint number two: after the Arcadian village it was Leon who were like “Hm, this is sus, it can’t be just one noble, let’s investigate this”. So he does have some brains, even if it’s not his favorite muscle to flex.
And yeah, while there is a difference in a skill set for a king and a general, there is a good overlap between the two - at the very least you need to predict what comes next and be ready to sacrifice some good people for the good of others.
Don’t.
Give in.
10 Likes