Zombie Exodus: Safe Haven Discussion Thread 1

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#6771

Is anyone else looking foreward to having a super secure ‘Safe haven’

Like, I won’t do guard duty or scavenging.
Just building.

I love it – imagining people like ‘Can I join?’ As I loose an arrow from a tiny defensible slot (there’s a word for this but I forget) in the thick castle wall.

And surround my fortresses with a tar/ petrol moat, so no one will attack (else we’ll set it on fire and they’ll be coated in sticky burning tar/ petrol.

Although then there’s the issue of me not burning in all this burn-y chaos!


#6772

I think they’re just called arrow slits.

A gasoline moat sounds like a horrible idea though. I mean, first of all, where are you going to find that much gasoline? Second, gasoline is extremely flammable so people could just light your moat on fire and then wait a while and you’d have no more moat, assuming you didn’t die in the meantime from being surrounded by a giant moat of burning gasoline. Third, even if no one lit your moat on fire (which would very likely happen by accident) the moat would evaporate very quickly, and you’d have no more moat. And again you’d probably die sometime during that process from inhaling all those gasoline fumes.


#6773

I’ll be interested to see how it turns out. Building fortifications in modern times is always problematic because there are so many good ways to reduce them. I suppose walls are good for the zombies but a properly equipped human enemy can overcome them pretty easily. Especially when you try to protect as much ground as they do in most zombie fiction like your farms and what not.


#6774

A determined, numerous and/or technologically advanced human army or horde can pretty much overcome anything one can conceivably put up. As for the Zombies, chain-link fences, barbed wire and watchtowers would be helpful and of course they’re also useful for spotting and defending against human raiders.


#6775

Problem is fortifications need to observed to work against humans. Guard towers require guards. Usually 3, 8 hour shifts to be effective. You can get away with 2, 12s but that wears people out. Just your standard box fort would require at least 8 people just to stand the watches and ideally 12.


#6776

I’m not sure how effective barbed wire would be against zombies. They don’t really mind puncture wounds much. If they get jabbed with it they’ll just keep going and rip themselves free. I mean, bloodloss doesn’t affect them right?

I mean, I know trying to use logic in a zombie apocalypse scenario doesn’t really make that much sense in the first place, but there are some rules right?


#6777

Concertina wire stacked up might work just because the coil creates a spring that pushes out from the center. I expect a big herd would just mash it down though.


#6778

For both humans and zombies the thing is mostly meant to slow them down enough to allow the sentries in towers to take them down. A large enough horde, human or zombie can pretty much overwhelm anything it chooses anyway.
We also likely need to head into the Rockies in order to make use of the mountainous terrain and ideally force human or zombie hostiles to approach using narrow mountain passes.

Maybe by the late game we’ll have better numbers of unnamed npc’s. Kinda similar to the Fallout 4 settlement mechanic?
Without numbers there isn’t much that can be done in the way of civilization anyway as at the very minimum you’d need farmers and soldiers.


#6779

My point is that it wouldn’t actually slow down zombies much. They presumably don’t react to pain or bloodloss which is the whole point of barbed wire. Maybe if you had tons of barbed wire strewn all over the place they would get tangled in it, but then you risk having a zombie covered in barbed wire coming at you. It’s like how lighting zombies on fire isn’t really a good idea. It’s great for disposing of trapped zombies, but if you ignite a zombie that’s chasing you you’re now being chased by a zombie that’s also on fire.


#6780

Normally you stake the concertina down. Pain and blood loss isn’t really what stops human enemies either. It’s catching their skin and cloths in the c-wire. An actual ttp to overcome it in a squad without a clearing charge is to have one guy jump on it and everyone else runs over his back…

Nonetheless not very zombie proof which speaks to your point, besides the one and two randomly just bumping into it.


#6781

I don’t really know what you mean by this. I mean, catching their skin on the concertina wire causes pain and blood loss… Especially if they then ignore the pain and rip themselves free like a zombie would.


#6782

I mean it’s the friction caused by the designed of the barbs on the c-wire rather than the pain and blood loss that makes it work as an obstacle. It would work on zombies too until enough of them stacked up in the wire to overcome the force of the coil pushing outwards. It does cause pain and blood loss but that is not a sufficient deterrent even for people (ie we just throw one on top of it to overcome the obstacle). As Idonot alluded it is the fact that the c-wire is covered by fire that makes it effective. It just slows down the assult.

Unfortunately as a permentant solution to protect a farm from zombies lets say it would quickly become ineffective.


#6783

A really good example of this with human opponents in history is with the Chinese mass wave attacks against heavily fortified UN positions during the Korean war


#6784

Well I’m still really freaking confused. I’m going to assume you’re talking about the military or something? While it’s possible that the group attacking your defenses in this zombie apocalypse scenario are ex-military it’s just as likely that they’re not so I dunno how matter of fact you can really afford to be about people using this tactic.


#6785

I guess the best analogy I could make would be a fish hook. It is pain and blood loss that keeps the fish on the hook or physics?

You can also cover the wire with a think blanket if you have one just jumping on it is more expedient if you don’t know about the wire beforehand.


#6786

True but the thing is that still takes time and slows down the attacking force, which gives some time to the defenders. Plus, most likely there will be several layers of wire set around the perimeter set several yards apart.
Of course barbed wire isn’t the only option, u could dig several deep pits and let them fill up (not too much of course) with zombies. Also u could lay out mines or make it appear that way. While usless against the undead the mere threat of mines would severally slow down even a spec ops group. (Kinda like those stories of throwing rocks and yelling Grenade! to make ur enemy freak out)


#6787

Problem is any defense built in this context has to deal with both threats simultaneously.

Fake mines for example would be obviously fake if zombies were walking all around the “minefield.”


#6788

You guys are all telling me a safe haven is fruitless. Might as well get a ship or something and live on the water. :motor_boat:

Seriously though … I’d look for something with natural fortifications like cliff faces and rivers … things that can be used to actually help make things defensible. In Colorado, maybe a mountain to live in (NORAD ex-headquarters) or some narrow box canyon


#6789

Ha, not fruitless! It’s just hard to imagine with conventional fortifications how it might work. Clearly terrain is important and it is in irl combat outposts.

I think the problem with really defensible terrain as site for the safe haven is “how do we do the other stuff a town needs to do like grow food?”


#6790

So, you have a relatively small keep/fort, which overlooks productive land with sweeping zones of fire and a network of guard towers? (Requires a big group though( In event of attack, retreat into the keep, which is kept supplied by the surplus produce of your land during quiet times. Presumably this works for most situations; if you have a well-equipped human enemy, willing to siege or assault, then you are maybe SOL. But in the context of the zombie apocalypse, I feel like the feudal solution presents many ideas that can be adapted (ie, requirement for security in a land of decentralized power, without centralized infrastructure of the old empire being maintained)