Quick question, how do I delete my cookies and the stuff making the game not update, also, can We tame a pet bird?
@NukeboomV2
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No, you canât tame birds but there are dogs and cats you can have as pets.
it makes it easier to choose challenges at start, especially as most work with professions, plus not 100% but pretty sure you donât hallucinate or anything until you get back to your house, or maybe you can hide it well? an alternate uber tolerant world? lol but I like the idea of a soldier with delusions, but if iIâm right and it doesnât start till you get back home, itd be near impossible the outbreak didnât affect it in some way.
I think delusions should have a special alternative variation for Soldiers. Instead of delusions itâs PTSD, rather than seeing a mysterious creepy man they see dead comrades, their wounds and blood visible on them, auditory hallucinations of gunfire and explosions. The higher stress is, the more these episodes occur.
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I have a question regarding the nephew you can choose to have in the game⌠We find out his mother, our characters sister passed away, but do we ever hear anything about the father? I kind of got the vibe that our characterâs sister was a single parent, so why isnât the father in the picture? Do we ever find out what happens to him?
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@MichaelMaxwell thanks for your support and kind words. Iâm honored your niece enjoys ZE. If you want to tell me her name, Iâll add it in to ZE:SH as a choice for a playerâs name. That way when she plays ZE:SH, she can pick it. And yes, Iâll post updates on 12/15.
@Lithophene at the point when your delusion kicks in, itâs very minimal. A single hallucination sets the mood. I did want to showcase it early and feel that players want to see impact asap. Believe me, it will be much more pervasive later on. As the effects of meds wear off, the delusions will intensify. Or you can find meds.
@Nathan_Faxon That can be said for all professions. Iâll see what I can do 
@alleykae yes, sheâs a single mother.
Great question! Read at your own risk: you will have contact with the father and it wonât be friendly. Thatâs all Iâm willing to say. 
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@JimD You have ⌠no. idea. how excited. that makes me.
That is going to add such an interesting element to the story, I really canât wait to see how that plays out.
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@JimD, thank you so much. youâre the man, Jim! Youâve just made me the best uncle in the world (according to my nieceâŚ), and yourself, the best interactive novel author in the world (according to me and my niece). and, her name is Sylvia, Sylvia Haroz. sheâs already used to playing these games typing her name in, but if you could put in her name⌠it would really make her day completely the happiest day of her life without a doubt (if it doesnât suddenly give her an asthma attack from itâŚthen Iâd have to pull out some money for my sister XD, but sheâd still have the happiest day of her lifeâŚ) like my niece always says âKeep making awesomenessâ.
once again, thank you so much⌠= )
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@JimD
Will we meet the dependentâs father in one of the future chapters or in chapter 1 or 2 or 3?
Maybe in future chapters, Con Artistâs could have delusions of people that they have conned and been killed as a result of the coning.
Also, was there any inspiration behind the âprimeâŚâ theme?
Will hackers eventually meet Julianne again or was it just a one off?
@JimD , first Iâd like to congratulate you on all your awesome games. Zombie Exodus showed me that zombie apocalypses can, in fact, be awesome. Iâve never been much of a zombie fan, until I started playing ZE. The game is totally awesome, one of the few that made me care about the characters and the story itself. Your new game, âA Wise Use of Timeâ is also totally awesome, by the way =)
I recently began playing Safe Havenâs demo, and I must say that Iâm impressed. In my opinion, ZE set a new standard for zombie games, and I must say that you managed to surpass it with Safe Haven.
Although I love the game as it is, I have some suggestions that I would like to see implemented. I bet someone else already thought of them, but reading 2640+ messages is a bit out of the question for me, so I apologize in advance if anything Iâll say has already been said.
First, I have some issues with the military characters. The Combat Medic, for example. It would be somewhat difficult for a 68W to become a NCO, given they generally donât have many opportunities to prove they have the necessary requirements for a leadership position. If they do, theyâll most likely be given a position as a Platoon Sergeant in a Medical Platoon, and stop being assigned to individual Squads, pretty much killing the âCombatâ part of being a Medic.
A Specialist would be more realistic. A Corporal, Sergeant, or Staff Sergeant could plausibly be assigned to a Squad, although dropping a few lines about how their badassery managed to impress their superiors would be good way to keep things smooth. A Sergeant First Class, on the other hand, is a Senior NCO, meaning their chances of accompanying Squads during their missions are pretty much zero.
If you decide to keep the protagonist as a SFC, a few lines about how they feel about staying back in base rather than going out to face the enemy would be great, not only to suspend the disbelief, but to give them some personality, too. Is the protagonist relieved now that they can take care of the injured without having to kill anyone in order to do so? Are they angry because they want to spill some enemy blood? Are they worried because they canât take care of their Squad personally?
The Commander, on the other hand, is a little old for the setting. Lieutenant Colonels usually earn that rank when theyâre 40 or over, and I donât think the character has just been promoted. Iâd personally go for a recently-promoted Major in his mid to late 30s, or a seasoned Captain in his late 20s to early 30s. The Infantry(wo)man is okay, as a Sergeant First Class is usually in his early to mid 30s. Iâd go with a Staff Sergeant, as theyâre late 20s to early 30s, and usually see much more combat than SFCs. A Sergeant or Lieutenant would fit in the â20-something protagonistâ trope thatâs very popular today.
Talking about ranks, this brings up a few questions about your skill distribution. First, why a SNCO has no leadership skills, while a pencil-pushing CO is absolutely full of it? Do you know that NCOs attend to leadership training courses, right? COs donât lead, they command. Thereâs a BIG difference. Privates look up to their NCOs as a kid looks up to their parents. They see each other everyday, they share victory and defeat, they fight together. A Sergeant is the father figure that keeps the unit together, no matter how ugly things look for them. The Soldier-Sergeant bound is fire-forged, and unbreakable.
A CO, on the other hand, probably doesnât even know the names of the soldiers in his unit. They stay back in the HQ, planning the next mission. Soldiers arenât people as much as they are statistics to a CO. Not that the guy would deliberately send their soldiers on suicide missions, but they arenât going to personally mourn the loss of every soldier in their units, like a Sergeant would. It makes them a little sad about losing a comrade, but it doesnât affect them personally. A Sergeant losing a soldier is similar to a parent losing a child.
So, yeah, give the Infantryman lots of leadership. A little bit of empathy and some persuasion would be neat, too. Athletics would be good for both the Infantryman and the Medic. I really doubt a police officer would be in better shape than an active duty enlisted. I canât really understand how the Commander can have 50% Strength if the Infantryman only has 45%. âDeskâ doesnât scream âmusclesâ to me as much as âbattlefieldâ.
I also found a bug that I really, really, REALLY loved. If you choose a custom profession but decide to change in the last moment, the next profession you choose will keep the 45 skill points. I really think you should implement it as a feature. The starting skills are really lacking. I only gave examples about the military protagonists because theyâre the only ones with professions that I know enough about to argue factually, but the others also are lacking some skills.
45 points are also too little to build a decent, survival-capable protagonist. I know that people arenât good at everything, but with so few points you can only choose between crippling overspecialization or master-of-none (see their TV Tropes entries if you donât know what Iâm talking about) when making a character from scratch. 100 points would be an okay amount, especially since each level costs more points to upgrade than the last.
Maybe youâre planning to give us lots of points during gameplay, but If we spent our whole lives learning half a dozen skills, it would be implausible to learn a dozen more during the apocalypse. Instead of starting out weak and growing strong with time, Iâd say we start out decently and learn to perfect our skills as time passes. Darwinism would be on full swing during an apocalypse. The weak simply wonât survive, and you need to be at least above-average to become a competent survivor.
The magazine quiz isnât very helpful, either. The character always end up with crippling overspecialization, which is a HUGE problem, especially if the attributes donât go up during gameplay. It would be great if the attributes could be distributed in the same way as the skills. For example, you could give us 80-100 points to distribute, each one increasing an attribute by 5%. If the attributes increase with gameplay, you could give us 80-90; if they donât, you could give us 90-100.
It would be GREAT if half the skill points came pre-distributed, as per profession, and you could spend the rest as you seemed fit. Even if the protagonist is a workaholic, thereâs absolutely no way all their skills can be summed up by their profession. Whatâs stopping a scientist from hitting the gym or an engineer from going to the gun range in their free time? ZE gave the PMC a chance to write a political blog and play video-games, while the Minister could be an NRA member who went jogging in preparation for marathons.
Changing subjects, I really liked Jamie in my first dozen or so playthroughs. He seemed like a really nice guy with lots of knowledge about the situation the protagonist is on. Even if the protagonist is useless and unfit for survival, he helps them as best as he can, offering useful advice and even saying heâll find a safe place for both of them. The ending of the demo also shows that heâs quite badass, and raised many questions about him. But, as I played the game over and over again, I began seeing him for what he is: one of these Mr. Expositions who love to rail-road the protagonist.
It seemed really out of place when my selfish, ruthless, back-stabbing bank robber decided to leave everything aside to help a guy who got outta prison by âtalking eloquentlyâ. In my official playthrough (altruistic soldier who puts othersâ well-being ahead of his own), Iâd have rescued him without thinking twice. During my âI must see where this path leads toâ playthrough with the aforementioned bank robber, I just stared at the screen with an awkward look on my face. A game isnât good if you donât believe the characters are real.
I think you should give the player more choices. Donât force them to have a badass best friend who would go out of his way to help them survive. Make them earn that friend. If they donât want to, donât make them. Let them hang up when Jamie calls, losing important information and weakening their friendship. Then, as punishment for their jerkassery, the game will become naturally more difficult, since they wonât know what to do and wonât have people to help them. It would be great if, somewhere down the road, the protagonist needed some help that only Jamie could provide. If they didnât treat Jamie right, he could just shrug and let them die. What goes around comes around.
Now, regarding the items. I see you used âammo clipâ quite a bit. The correct term is âmagazineâ. Itâs a common and small mistake, but enough to make firearm-enthusiasts cringe. Do you know what would be totally awesome? Kalashnikovs. Probably Saigas or VEPRs in .223/5.56x46mm, unless the Russian Armed Forces happens to pass by to say hello. Please note that no weapon has ever been named âAK-47â, and itâs also a common mistake, even among firearm-enthusiasts. âAKMâ is the weapon youâre looking for. Also, the Russians have been using AK-74Ms since the 90s, anything else would be anacronistic. Just one more thing: Iâd really, really, REALLY love to see the AR jamming a few times, just to keep the realism up =P
Anyway, even as it is, this game is easily one of the best Iâve ever playedâŚAnd thatâs saying quite a bit, since I only played the demo so far! Keep up the good work!
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I have a compound bow and I noticed there is no âarrowâ ammunition in inventory (if ammunition was addressed already I apologize. Been awhile and havenât had the time to read everything like I used to.) Also since its arrows is it possible for me to retrieve my arrows if I fire then skillfuly enough to where they donât break? I may be able to craft arrows, but Iâll forever be stingy with my arrows. Apocalypse or no apocalypse!
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@JimD
I found this error in chapter 2 playing as a bank robber, I had a shotgun as a primary and a swordcane as as a secondary. My ranged weapon skill level was 4.
When I chose âCover her body out of respectâ as a bank robber the word departed is present.
However when I played as a teenager with a baseball bat and knife the word is missing.
âThough you killed the zombie, she used to be a living woman and deserves the respect of any soul that recently.â
In chapter 2 at the school I chose to kill Driver and selected âShoot him from cover.â
Fly off
I was a teenager with ranged weapons level 2.
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@Bugreporter Iâm not sure where the dependentâs father will fit in now that I redesigned the game. Likely in the chapter 5 or 6 area.
I like the idea of matching delusions to professions. I will add that to my plans.
Primo in Italian means first, which was slang for âthe bestâ when I grew up. In Philadelphia, thereâs a hoagie (aka submarine sandwiches) place I like called Primoâs. So I always liked the word Prime. Itâs also a generic word, like Acme, so in writing ZE:SH, I wanted a theme across businesses so characters feel they are familiar.
Sheâs a recurring NPC who will be met through an Epic Mission, meaning she can be met after a long series of events.
@StarshinaSokolov thanks for your thorough feedback. Your suggestions are the reason I post demos.
I have received feedback from various military people and none have given the suggestions you made (likely they didnât focus on rank). Do you have a military background? I wand with these ranks by researching pay grades but found little to describe what rank does what role in combat. It looks like you suggest:
Infantry soldier: Staff Sergeant
Medic: Private First Class?
Commander: Captain
Balancing the game is a huge challenge, and I wanted to give two options: 1) I want to customize my character 2) I want the game to do the work and just give me a character. So I need to make characters fair and balanced across all professions while also giving players the ability to customize. All of the skills are relative. So while you may feel X profession should be higher in Y skill, the game so far uses those levels to judge degrees of success. I would need to adjust all of those if I alter starting skill points.
My intention is to give lots of skill points and as characters evolve, the game turns skills-based rather than profession-based.
All that said, your feedback is rather compelling, so I will see what can be done to increase realism and make characters more variable at the start. I still need an option for character creation for those players who donât want to customize. I also disabled an option for complete customization since running automated tests on the code became too tricky.
Now that you say it, I need to add more variability to Jaime and the dependent.
There are going to be soooooooooooo many NPCs for which to earn friendship, I need one NPC as a writer to use as a consistent voice in this game. At this point, heâs your best friend but you can lose his friendship over time. I think if I give him some variable personality traits, it will help.
Youâre right and Iâll fix it.
One thing about common mistakes and tropesâIâve noticed in my years now of doing this that some are needed. 90% of the AKs on the market are AKMs, but AK-47 has become the general description used to describe many of the AK series rifles/copies. Itâs tricky, because if I say AKM, I will have a number of people ask why there are no AK 47s in ZE:SH.
Iâm not saying that to cop out. I do think realism is a priority but in choosing terms or gun types or medical or scientific jargon, I have to evoke an understanding in the reader. Also itâs time consuming to add specificity at the level I am already juggling things. Sometimes I call a 30-06 a bullet instead of a cartridge because I donât want to have to track it.
Will do
If there are major cringe-worthy things you note when reading, please point them out, and I greatly appreciate your feedback.
@EmperorHeartless good catch!
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@JimD yes spent a few years a ground pounder and @StarshinaSokolov is pretty spot on. With that said (I havenât yet tried the military background yet. But will soon!) For a field medic Spec 4(Specialist E-4 and Corporal E-4 are the same pay grades but the corporal is in a position of leadership as a NCO) or Sergeant. With that stated back in 92 when I left the army they were Starting to use Warrant Officers as the main leadership for primary aid before a doctor is needed.
When you say Commander I would look at you and say get your Navy out of my Army! XD Captian would be correct. For commissioned officers a 2nd lieutenant is in charge of a platoon, first lieutenants are the XOâs for the company commander which is a Captain. Majors are XOâs for Lieutenant Colonel, which runs the battalion which usually consists of 4 to five companies.
Iâd say if your are using a relative age for all the potential jobs we can select I am assuming any PC would be in the age range of early 20s to early 30s (for the doctor). Which would put our guy or gal at captains rank at best Major.
With military officers, and to a smaller effect NCOs. They receive a ton of education four year degree in a college plus additional training in the military in their chosen MOS everyone has the same basic training which is 13 weeks their advance training which can vary but with an officer they would train in the basics in every sub branch of a given MOS with the infantry (s)heâd need to know about 11B 11C 11H (officers in the infantry are 11X iirc), that is your basic infanty, to your mortar guy, tow missle guy (tho they nixed that MOS in early 2000s). Then (s)he has addition train in the tactics which was 16 weeks of advance training, before they could receive their commission. NCOs and officers that want to progress higher in the ranks would have to continue their education with specialized courses. PLDC BNoC ANoC for NCOs. Not sure about what the officers went through but higher learning always continues well in the military aspect.
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This has peaked my interest⌠This because of how long this game will be and the mortality? Is there a limit to how many we can take in before we need to move into a bigger haven or maybe create a second haven, and communicate with one another?
By the amount of NPCs, the possibility of continuous expansion and length of it to start of with. Exodus sounds like the making of a tv series 
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Iâm so happy you replied, I canât even describe it =P
Yes, I have.
I actually suggested the Medic to be a Specialist. A Private First Class would have seen little more than 1 year of service. A 68W is a âHealth Care Specialistâ, not a âCombat Medicâ. However, they may earn the âCombat Medical Badgeâ, which means they provided medical support to somebody while the rest of their unit were engaged in active combat with the enemy. âCombat Medicâ is less of a âMedic who kills peopleâ and more of a âMedic who heals people while others are being killedâ. However, their basic training means they know how to handle a rifle and defend themselves pretty well.
With that said, if the Medic earned the Combat Medical Patch, theyâd probably earn a promotion as well. Since Private First Class is probably the lowest rank a serviceman may be deployed with, theyâd be promoted to either Specialist or Corporal. A Specialist and a Corporal are of the same pay-grade, the only difference is that the Corporal is considered a Junior NCO, and received leadership training, while the Specialist is simply a highly-paid Private, and often the entry-rank for people with college-degrees who donât want to become a CO.
All of the enlisted personnel, at least until you reach Sergeant First Class, takes part in combat. A Corporal is just a soldier who received leadership training, and became their Sergeantâs Second-in-Command. They wonât lead anyone unless their Sergeant is incapacitated of doing so. Sergeants lead Fire-Teams, groups of 4 soldiers (leader, rifleman -probably the corporal-, grenadier, and machine-gunner). Staff Sergeants lead Squads, groups of 9 soldiers (2 Fire-teams + the Staff Sergeant). Sergeant First Classes are Senior NCOs, and may be placed as Platoon Sergeants, which means theyâll be the Lieutenantâs Second-In-Command. They generally use their field experience to teach the fresh officer how not to get everybody killed with his orders. First Sergeants do the same thing at the Company level, while Master Sergeants serve as some kind of Non-Commissioned Executive Officer at the Brigade level. Command Sergeant Majors do the same thing as First Sergeants, but at the Battalion level. Sergeant Major of the Army is a rank held by only one individual at a time, and serves as the voice for ALL enlisted personnel. They speak directly to Generals and such.
Commissioned Officers on the other hand, are quite the same. They do the same things, only the size of their unit changes. 2nd Lieutenants command Platoons, 1st Lieutenants act as executive officers at the company level, Captains command Companies, Majors act as executive officers at the Battalion level, Lieutenant Colonels command Battalions, Colonels command Regiments, Brigadier Generals command Brigades, Major Generals command Divisions, Lieutenant Generals command Corps, and Generals command the entire Army. In times of war, a General may be promoted to Field Marshal, so he can command the entire allied army, not only his own countryâs.
This, of course, applies to Infantry Units of the US Armed Forces. The Marines do it differently, the Air Force does it differently, and so on.
As I said, if somebody spent all their lifetime to learn half a dozen skills, I doubt they would be able to learn a dozen more right in the middle of the apocalypse. I understand how time-consuming is to mess with every professionâs attributes, and the game is certainly good as it is, so do what you think itâs best =)
As a perfectionist, it makes me kinda sad knowing there wonât be an option for me to completely customize my character. But itâs okay, though, the game is good nonetheless =P
Sadly, yes LOL But itâs cool, I understand that most people wouldnât understand. Also, AKMs would be difficult to come by. Stick with Saigas (or possibly VEPRs) if you decide to put an AK in the game.
Nothing makes me cringe anymore, actually. Not much realism in the media today. But Iâll report if I see something else that could get on somebody elseâs nerves =)
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@Bugreporter I have a dozen well-developed NPCs you havenât seen yet, not including Lyle, Jillian, Jaime, Billie, Fred, and Sean. I am also introducing Chandra (engineer/laborer prologue) and Reilly to the group. I have 2 more NPCs from CoGâs charity event and 3 from contests. Iâd say that will be close to the number of total, primary NPCs. Secondary NPCs will be too numerous to count. I may also allow Rosie and Driver to be added to your group (Iâm debating it).
@Pace675 please try the military background! Thanks for confirming the military info. Any other feedback is much appreciated.
@Nathan_Faxon yes, the game will be long, and I want to make NPCs more transient, meaning, they die and move on more often. By the end of ZE, I had 7 NPCs (+1 dog) who may or may not be in your group besides the primary NPCs you met at the cathedral, and I believe people enjoyed the variability.
@StarshinaSokolov is the rank just called Specialist?
Also hereâs something I researched and seems debated. If I am on the street in uniform and a higher rank than an approaching soldier, will I be saluted? Will that soldier call me sir? Do the rules/customs change while on base or in active duty?
Letâs say Iâm a PFC. If I am on the street in uniform with (for example) a friend who is a high rank (say a Major), and a higher rank than me but lower than major approaches (e.g. Sergeant First Class), do I salute? Say question but it happens on base.
I have planned to add that feature back in prior to publishing part 1.
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Yes, the rank is called âSpecialistâ, and itâs E-4 or OR-4.
If youâre within a certain distance (15 feet, i believe, although I canât confirm), then expect a salute. Theyâll only call you âSirâ if youâre a CO. If youâre a NCO, theyâll be afraid you may reply with âDonât call me âSirâ, I work for a living.â LOL
If youâre deployed, youâll NEVER salute. This only alerts enemy Snipers that thereâs a high-ranking target for them to take out. Other than that, youâll always salute and be saluted. Minimum distance for salute is around 6 paces, and maximum is about 30 feet.
And now and happy again =P
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@JimD Woo Primoâs! I believe weâre talking about the same place. If we are I eat there whenever I visit Philly
Also the same problem for Crossbow. Now bolts shown in inventory when starting, but crafting a quiver of crossbow bolts works fine.
The 2nd sentence seems redundant. You could reword it to âYour father left a note, it saysâ or something like that.
Itâs a crossbow so youâd need to reload it before you can fire again. Its be hard to reload it while driving not impossible, but hard so maybe add some dialogue to show that? Or having your nephew reload it if you choose the dependent challenge.
Sailing?
Would having crafting tools give a bonus to crafting or making some crafting items easier to make?
Iâd imagine that while Brody is saying this heâd show some more emotion either anger and sadness. Maybe a curse word or two. He probably knew several of the students who died.
