Zombie Exodus: Safe Haven -- set for release 10/28/16

@StarshinaSokolov

http://www.shinkendo.com/kabuto.html

Don’t know how good of a source that is, but there you go.

Machetes and fire axes aren’t specifically designed to behead people. The katana, on the other hand, was actually routinely used to do so, and executioners required a great deal of control just so the blade wouldn’t cut all the way through and send the head flying (an undignified way to go for a samurai).

Granted these were executions, it would be far more difficult in battle, though zombies are not exactly the most nimble of creatures…

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Honestly I barely trust anything on the internet to do with Katanas (aka glorified cleavers) due to the amount of very highly exaggerated information floating about.

I mean yeah axes aren’t meant to cut heads but I’d go for them since they have really good chopping power due to the weight distribution. Plus you don’t need to chop the head off, just sever the spine or damage the brain as they usually do. Unless this is more “realistic” and damaging a random part of the brain won’t kill them unless you destroy the core (forgot the name).

If any damage to the brain kills though… Axe is near perfect. Then again so is a war mace.

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I’d say they are a little Katana-biased, given the site is about Japanese swordsmanship. But, anyway, they acknowledge that it was a “rare, record-setting” feat, not something you’d routinely do. And the guy knew what he was doing very well. Also, it only gashed the helmet, it didn’t actually cut it deeply. If there was a brain inside there, It wouldn’t have been much damaged.

Oh, just to be sure: The helmet was a replica of the original, right? Because the wording makes it seem as if it was an actual 400-year old helmet.

But they are specifically designed to chop stuff. “Chopping” is much closer to “beheading” than “slicing”. My knowledge about ancient Asia is very limited, but I know that, at least in medieval Europe, they used specifically-designed axes for decapitation because swords just didn’t get the job done.

Furthermore, there could have existed Katanas specifically designed to behead people. “Katana” is a very broad term. In Japanese it means any sword with a curved, single-edged blade. It’s similar to the “all Kalashnikov rifles are AK-47s” thing.

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@JimD

I found a typo whole attacking Lyle and Jillian with a sledgehammer:

You charge forward and jab the sledgehammer at Lyle’s arm which holds his weapon. He lowers his sword-cane in an attempt to block, but the end of the sledgehammer slices across his forearm. He howls in pain and drops the cane. As blood courses from the line of cut flesh, Lyle falls to the floor and stares helplessly at the wound.

I’m pretty sure that a sledgehammer could give Lyle a broken arm and a bruise, not a stab wound.

Also, wouldn’t it be cool to knock Lyle unconscious with 1 bash of a sledgehammer? I wonder how Jillian’ll react to that… :smiling_imp:

Not really relevant, since zombies aren’t in the habit of armoring themselves. The point being that if such a blade in trained hands could make an appreciable cut in a steel helmet, what would it do against an unprotected human head?

I can only imagine they meant that it was an authentic replica. I don’t know how well preserved a four hundred year old steel helmet would be, but if it was an antique, they’d be insane to damage it like that for the sake of a test.

“Katana” is not a terribly ambiguous term as far as I know. Not every Japanese sword with a curved, single edged blade is considered a katana. It’s distinct from greatswords (nodachi), short swords (wakizashi), cavalry swords (tachi), etc., all of which fit the description.

I don’t claim to be an expert on Japanese swords or anything, so I could be wrong, but I haven’t heard of a type of katana made specifically for execution-style beheadings.

I don’t mean to go on like the weeabo scumbag that I am and suggest that katana are the greatest weapon of all time and can cut through anything (they most certainly can’t) but it’s hardly going to snap in half the instant you ply it against a zombie. The blade isn’t fragile, it’s tempered steel for goodness sake.

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Exactly. I was thinking of the helmet as the skull, that’s why I said that thing about the brain inside. The human skull may not be as hard as steel, but I’ve seen Katanas breaking upon impact against wooden broom handles. So, yeah, there’s that.

Not a reliable source by any means, but one of my Japanese-speaking friends (and Google Translator [and the Japanese Wikipedia translated by Google Translator]) tells me that “Katana” (刀) literally translates to English as “Sword”. So, yeah, pretty vague to me.

Google Search’s “define” function also defines “Katana” as “a long, single-edged sword used by Japanese samurai.” which only backs up my point as well.

The Japanese Wikipedia tells me that cutlasses, sabers, scimitars, and similar weapons are all considered Katanas (including the nodachi, which you said wasn’t), further backing up the point that “Katana” just means “Sword”, and nothing more.

It depends. The game doesn’t specify the type of Katana that the protagonist uses. It could be a replica made from tamahagane, or a stainless-steeled contemporary version, for all I know. The only thing that stands is that the blade is thin, and thin blades break very easily. I speak from personal experience.

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Just a point of order, and I asked my Japanese wife on this one, “katana” is specifically a Japanese style sword. A Japanese person wouldn’t call a European bastard-sword a “katana” in Japanese. The general Japanese word for sword is “ken.” They do refer to all the different types of “Japanese style swords” as “katana” though, or at least a lay person like my wife does.

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Katanas are technically not fragile. They bend not break.

Where? A source would be nice.

I’ll concede it then. I don’t really have an actual Japanese person on hand for reference, and reading a few books hardly makes me an expert.

I feel like we meandered away from my original point, though.

Thanks for the insight, @cascat07.

I’m kinda short on resources here, but Google transliterates “Ken” to “県”, and then translates “県” to “Prefecture”, with “Province”, “Department”, and “County” as other possible meanings. Nothing about swords, though.

I doubt we’re talking about the same “Ken”, so it would be great if somebody could point out the correct transliteration which has something to do with swords.

But, if they refer to all Japanese swords as Katanas, then my point still stands.

@Blazerules, I have a drawer full of plastic rulers by my side right now. They bend so much that the tips actually touch each other. I could do it all daylong and I’m sure none of them would break. However, hitting my desk with them, even with minimal force, proves enough to break it. Hitting it with the flat side proves a little tricky due to the bending, but breaks with moderate force. Hitting it with the thin side, as a sword would, breaks it almost effortlessly. I know that plastic isn’t the same as metal, and rulers aren’t the same as swords, but bending alone isn’t enough to prove that it wouldn’t break if hitting something solid.

I’ve seen it with my own eyes. I wasn’t able to get any information on the Katana’s quality (probably brought on eBay), and the guy handling it had no formal knowledge of swordsmanship (and was probably drunk, now that I come to think of it). Since this doesn’t quality as a formal test about the weapon’s performance, and doesn’t come from a reliable source, I didn’t bother to press it further. Feel free to disregard this fact.

Same reading different kanji “剣” is the “ken” you are looking for. To put it lightly Japanese is hard for a native English speaker to understand fully particularly in its written form. You are both kinda right and kinda wrong when it comes to the language aspect. So all Japanese style swords are “katana” because the kanji for katana is in the word for all of them despite the sound being radically different to a non-Japanese ear. The kanji for “katana” is “刀” which is the word in and of itself. The word for short sword/blade is “tanto,” which sounds nothing like “katana” but the kanji are “短刀.” Notice the same kanji for katana at the end.

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but surely katanas can’t be that fragile, I’m no expert either, but I assume they’d be using them for hours, or even days with few if any brakes if samurai fought even slightly similar battles to other warriors so the katana would have to be tough to survive that…plus how did they replace them all if they would have broke so easily? one thing I do know is ninjas apparently used a different type of sword(think some sort of straight sword) due to their cost as a proper samurai sword is extremely expensive, plus it was developed and improved upon over hundreds of years, surely if it was that fragile they’d stop using it or improved it…but yes think the people using it back in the day would have started using it from ages as early as 6 or 7 but that doesn’t change it’s strength just it’s effectiveness.

@StarshinaSokolov

Basically the edge of a katana is very hard in order to hold a razor edge, while the sides and spine are softer and more flexible steel. Supposedly this is why you never see samurai with shields, because they would just parry their opponent’s attacks, the sword being able to absorb the impact.

That’s the principle of it to my knowledge.

Thanks @cascat07 , I checked it up and it really means “sword”, according to Google Translate.

@Bruno_Frank_Hill, Samurai used primarily bows and spears in their battles. The Katanas were more commonly used for self-defense and ceremonial purposes. It was kinda like their side-arm. It only became really popular in more modern times.

Also, at least in Europe, warriors used weapons from downed enemies and allies extensively. You’d be lucky to get in and out of a battle with the same weapon in hands. Or with limbs, for that matter.

Ninjas were more like spies than warriors. Not spy like James Bond, but spy like the NSA. They just dressed up as peasants and stuck around the enemy, hoping to learn something useful. Even their efficacy in assassinations is debatable. Their weaponry was mostly meant for self-defense if they screwed up and the enemy recognized them, thus, they were very short to be easily concealable, and more often than not mocked up to pass off as tools. Some were tools.

@Sneaks, I was told that they didn’t use shields because they saw it as dishonorable, and because the steel available at the time was really crappy, so basically any armor was capable of breaking the enemy’s weapons, and a shield was just a encumbrance for that reason. The Europeans also moved away from shields once they got better at making armor. Also, Katanas (and swords in general, to be honest) are known for breaking during parry maneuvers.

Also, the fact that Samurai started as mounted archers, and oriental swordsmanship is heavily oriented on using both hands to attack, heavily influenced their decision not to use it. The samurai had three main weapons; the bow, the spear, and the Katana. Katanas are dual handed, spears are dual handed, and bows are dual handed. Implementing a shield in their load-out would mean having to re-learn everything from scratch. Samurai warfare was relatively rare, anyway.

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Bendy katanas… I’m imagining my MC defending the dependant child and Jillian with a katana that moves like a soggy noodle.

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Uhm… shields are primarily used to protect yourself from arrows. Unless you are telling me that they also used their katanas to parry arrows. I highly doubt that is the actual reason they didn’t use shields.

Also I’m pretty sure Samurai used Katanas as a side weapon, who in their right mind would use a SWORD as a primary?

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Please correct me if I’m wrong but I think that there are samurai who uses weapons other that katanas like bows and arrows or something that looks like a spear (halberd I think?) and others too

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@StarshinaSokolov stated a few posts earlier that Samurai primarily used spears and bows.

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@Blazerules

Don’t be a smartass. Shields were used to protect from melee attacks as well.

@StarshinaSokolov

I don’t think so. I seem to recall seeing wood block prints depicting samurai bowmen on foot using mantlet-like shields for cover, or having a retainer on hand with something resembling a pavise. Samurai had a pretty selective view of honor, though. The arquebus was considered “dishonorable” - sure as hell didn’t stop them from using it.

I’m gonna go ahead and bow out of this discussion, because we have diverged wildly off-topic and hijacked @JimD’s thread.

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