Zombie Exodus: Safe Haven -- set for release 10/28/16

That’s not exactly the reason, no, and I certainly wasn’t trying to suggest that he should survive solely because he’s gay. However, if the only gay character (aside from one who only exists on the other side of a telephone, and whose orientation, to my knowledge, was never revealed, and a couple of others who I didn’t even notice) does die, then it can feel as though the universe is out to get us (and it does happen a lot). I get the feeling that it’s probably the other way around for women; quite often fiction would spare women when they wouldn’t spare men (or make the death far more special, if they do die), and I would agree that this is just as bad. Please don’t think I’m trying to denigrate anyone; I know that as a white, cis male, I’m three-quarters of the way to being completely privileged, and I will always try to look at things from others’ points-of-view.

As a more personal (in this case) reason is that he’s explicitly described as being a gay teen’s crush (and straight females, too, but that’s not reciprocated), and given that the teen MC has one of the most horrific prologues of them all (especially compared to the student, or anyone who goes on the date, and some others), I just felt it would be a nice bright patch in an otherwise-grim, depressing existence (and yes, I get that a zombie apocalypse is going to be grim). (Also, he has the same name as me, and while that was the reason I noticed him in my first playthrough, it doesn’t actually have any bearing on my feelings in this case. :stuck_out_tongue_winking_eye:)

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I am a straight woman myself. And one of my first appeal from role-playing as a kid was that I could be WHATEVER different a non script white man. And have to save non scripted sexy woman who of course is blonde, busty and stupid as hell because alpha male has to save her in exchange of her virginity. I just have described 99% of early video games. I love play as all races, all queers characters. For instance, my main Mara is bisexual, but she is more often with women. As con art her foe is a married woman who is just for money with his husband. In my canon she is just a disguise lesbian in the closet . I would love have her as npc more than 99% of npcs I have and I don’t care about. Because i would love see her reaction to the truth about my character. However she dies in the first minute of apocalypse . That’s how role life. Jim has always add great gays and other type characters so trust him as I do.

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I feel like the only problem with keeping minority groups alive purely for the reason as to not upset people wouldn’t work late game-- if it’s one of those things where you have to get save/ kill/ get rid of someone from your group, a minority (homosexual, transsexual) could be given a sort of plot immunity, where even stupid decisions you make pertaining to them (giving them no rations, using them as bait) wouldn’t affect them as they are the last minority member of your group, and if you had to get rid of someone, you might not be able to get rid of the last gay member alive just not to spite readers.
Although if we were to treat everyone equally we would have to take in more than just 'oh there’s tons of straight people, but almost no [gay/trans/ace/ethnic minority] since the amounts-
[quote=<a href="“https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LGBT_demographics_of_the_United_States” target="_blank">Wikipedia]
Studies from several nations, including the U.S., conducted at varying time periods, have produced a statistical range of 1.2[3] to 6.8[4] percent of the adult population identifying as LGBT.

Editted in: Online surveys tend to yield higher figures than other methods, a likely result of the higher degree of anonymity.
[/quote]

As a result, in comparison to straight or non-LGBT people LGBT people may be in the lower numbers, it should be roughly proportionate.
That said, it is a game, and it would suck for some people to only have one or two R/O’s.
Maybe keep at least a couple, but if it would add something to the game or plot than it’d be better to give their existence the old paradigm shift.

Also another reson I'll never make my own Choice script game-- my coding. Like I took over 5 minutes to get that quote and hyperlink and put the link in the text Wikipedia and have it open in a different tab. That's why I admire good coders, such as @JimD
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I’m certainly not advocating making him (or any other minorities) immortal; I am, however, advocating making him savable, even if just on a few playthroughs. I agree that sometimes the player will have to make decisions that might result in the death of a character, and that’s fine.

This I certainly agree with.

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@ParrotWatcher writing in a way to save Tommy is something I want to do. The problem is he will almost certainly be a major NPC at that point, and that’s a major investment of time. It’s on my Wish List but very low on priority. If I invest in an NPC, it is a huge commitment.

I agree, and I think this is why it is easy to make all NPCs bisexual. It is far easier to code. Having a fixed gender NPC with a fixed sexual orientation limits the MCs that can participate in ROs.

I have a list of fifteen NPCs with a ton of details and interactions planned. Replacing one may not adequately work in what is planned. Each main NPC has a set of skills, traits, likes/dislikes, etc.

Trust me, I really want to make Tommy savable. If we had this conversation 3 months ago (and I realize his death scene was revealed 3 weeks ago), I may do it with no other thought. I just want to get Part 1 out sooner than 2017, so I have to cut some additions.

@Lithophene

Yes, and it’s coming soon, though at this rate, maybe Part 2.

@poison_mara [quote=“poison_mara, post:4535, topic:2000”]
Jim has always add great gays and other type characters so trust him as I do.
[/quote]

Thank you.

@fairlyfairfighter [quote=“fairlyfairfighter, post:4536, topic:2000”]
That said, it is a game, and it would suck for some people to only have one or two R/O’s.
[/quote]

As it stands now, there are at least 4 options each for gay/straight, male/female. Bixsexual MCs have it best since a core group of NPCs will be bisexual. I also have 2 asexual/non-sexual major NPCs for those MCs who want a close, non-sexual intimate relationship.

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Oh, yeah. I get that it’s a lot of work (my own WIP is bad enough, and there are only 7 ROs), and I certainly don’t want you to feel that I’m forcing you.

I do wonder, though, whether it would be possible to save him in a way that writes him out of Part 1, and then has him return in Part 2, when (I assume) you’ll be writing in the other teen romances, although I’m not certain how that’d work in character.

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That’s possible. Actually that’s intriguing.

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Since we’re mentioning parts, do you intend for them to continue immediately after each other, or will some feature a minor time skip? If there’s anything I really hope to see is the growth of the safe haven itself. I’m actually going to go more in-depth on that later tonight 'cause I have a ton of screenshots from this one action RPG that I think handles that really well and I obviously can’t do that at work. Not without risking getting a pink slip at least. :joy:

Mara - you break hearts.

Indeed.

I was going to withhold my opinion but I feel it might help here.

A couple of facts to establish for better understanding:
1: Tommy is a character that came into existence for specific purposes that @JimD has detailed.
2: Testers have identified further needs
3: @JimD understands these needs and plans to address them - he’s not sure how atm…
4: The latest suggestion of [quote=“ParrotWatcher, post:4539, topic:2000”]
be possible to save him in a way that writes him out of Part 1, and then has him return in Part 2,
[/quote]

is indeed the most intriguing - yet @JimD still has a schedule to adhere to and so he must continue working on his list… as testers we need to understand this.

We really need to be supportive of @JimD here, acknowledge that he has heard the feedback and suggestions then let him work his magic.

That is my opinion.

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Oh, I’m very supportive, and very grateful to @JimD for giving me a story I could get so worked up about. :grin:

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It is quite typical of me to arrive late to a conversation already resolved, and yet, to add another perspective of why Tommy can strike a chord with only one note; a young person who has lost their family, friends, reality has just received a hug from someone safe and familiar. They were comforted, albeit briefly, instead of having to be the one to comfort others (if your character is so inclined). I can understand how that might be impactful…

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That actually reminded me of something that could probably use some strengthening: the teenager has a lack of reaction to seeing their zombified classmates in the lunchroom. We get a list of names and what a teenager MC knew them for (i.e. the gal with her bandana), but there’s no… moment of hesitation. No freezing in place or something similar. Woody or Jillian taking a moment to pat them on the shoulder and snap them out of their stupor would be a great addition.

Out of all the current professions, I think the teenager witnesses the most deaths of people they knew. I think that’s why I’m partial towards it being my favorite choice, but I don’t think there’s enough emotional OOMF there beyond what happens with Tommy.

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A scene like that would be a nice addition, but I’m partial towards the description changing based on an option, like when you find the couple who committed suicide. My main teen wouldn’t even take a second look at the corpses, but I imagine he’s in the minority.

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maybe have a feels question? would be weird if jillian or whoever comforted my teen, kinda why I didn’t notice that myself as my teen kinda based on me is just indifferent to everything :stuck_out_tongue:
(damn starshina beat me to it :stuck_out_tongue: ) but yeah like that about the game, so far it’s written so I can be the most indifferent person ever! :stuck_out_tongue:

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I’ve been playing my teen so far as being mostly indifferent to the deaths of strangers. Classmates and friends though? That’s a whole 'nother ballpark. It slips past his walls no matter how hard he tries.

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I’ve done surveys of people’s preferences and most people don’t like to be told in words nor actions how they feel and do not like feely questions. Generally, people play as themselves and options for how they feel are typically not provided. I am not personally opposed, and I try them from time to time but am not sure including them even in big emotional scenes is valuable.

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I prefer emotionally-blank scenes too, but if there absolutely must be something emotional in the scene, then I’d rather be asked what do I feel.

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Thematic messages are a part of the plot. His death is plot-relevant.

That wasn’t his only comment on it. We can both be right.

Which is why unpreventable deaths need to happen a little more often. Yes, I agree that teens have had it rough but the setting of the game dictates that everyone will have a difficult time at some point.

Tommy’s death is essentially a part of a larger, time-constrained thematic message about the abundance of death in the early stages of the apocalypse.

Cheers :beers:

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I’m gonna drop the subject now. I’m getting really tired about it.

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You almost seem to have it in for Tommy.

Well, except that this doesn’t really fit with your next line:

Only teen characters really have it that bad in the early stages (as mentioned quite a lot above), and I don’t see how letting a teen save a single character would make the thematic message any less deep (like it would be for just about every other profession). Also, I imagine that any later "difficult time"s will apply almost equally to most character types.

Honestly, I’m kinda feeling like @StarshinaSokolov right now. I’ve made my case and suggestions to @JimD, and it’s up to him (not you or me) whether he wants to (or can) implement those changes or not.

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