After talking to Tom about the Zombie Exodus, I learned that the small towns outside of Philly have been overrun. I live in one of those small towns so I’m dead. Anyway, great game and I can’t wait for part 4.
thank god i live in a flat, rural area 
I just finished the game (about six times) so I thought I’d toss in my two cents. I’m going to address the questions out of order. It makes sense to me based on what I think is important/what affected me most.
-
The scene on the docks in part two is both my most and least favorite scene. I felt it was well-conceived and that a lot hinged on it, but it also frustrated me because I didn’t get to react the way I wanted. Also, the actions taken there strongly changed my opinion of some of the NPCs, and I didn’t particularly want to put my PC’s life on the line for a group of people who I think made a morally terrible decision. Heather convinced Tom to leave someone alone in a dangerous area based on a personality conflict. I wanted to be able to object more forcefully to this, particularly with the preacher PC. If there had been an option at that point to leave the boat and go with Devlin, I would have done that. I think the NPC reactions were all well written, it makes sense for Heather to act as she did as well as Tom going along with her; I was only frustrated by my inability to act as I wanted to (basically call them out for leaving Devlin to die). Later in part 3, some flavor text says that I start thinking of these people as my family and the Cathedral as home, and as a player I felt that didn’t make sense.
-
I don’t think I have a good grasp on Emma because at this point in the story she is withdrawing from the PC. Maybe flashbacks could be done in one of the dream sequences so we see what Emma and the PC’s relationship used to be like? There was reference to the PC raising Emma, was she strict, too nice, or what? How did that affect their relationship – can Emma relate to the PC as an equal, or is the PC a parent figure?
I think I have a good grasp on Heather, and I don’t like her. She was only mildly annoying at first, beginning in the scene where you meet Devlin. So the road is blocked by a car wreck that needs to be cleared – she childishly refuses to help, and buckles back into the car in a way that came off as sulky to me. The scene on the docks made me feel like she is an uncaring monster, and by the time she came into the PC’s room I had the impression that she is self-absorbed and unreliable. If you do start a relationship, I think either Mindy or Emma comments that she gets bored of her partners quickly. I have a low opinion of her in general and she’s a big reason why I don’t want my character making the Cathedral a permanent home.
I liked Devlin a lot. I can see how people find his behavior abrasive, but I guess I’m the type of person who finds it funny. I don’t know if you watch Mad Men, but he reminds me of Stan (a supporting character, the art guy who works with Peggy). Anyway, I don’t think being a jerk is a crime worthy of death. He was always honest and even had my back when we were attacked by zombies (I chose to evacuate Emma and Heather before fighting). I’m not sure where you’re heading with the plot, but I’d like to see more of him. It sounds like we probably will (btw, I noticed the medicine run scene with him is different if you’re a scientist. I found it a lot more intense that way). I wonder what he’ll use the favor for, but he seems like a generally decent guy so I’m not too worried. I’d like to see him mature a bit after his brush with death. But only a bit, because I find him so entertaining.
My perception of Tom is colored by my opinion of Heather and what went down on the docks. I gotta be honest, I thought he was trying to get my noncombatant preacher PC killed by sending her on all these dangerous missions, especially making her go solo on the fuel run (AHHHH!). That all made more sense when I played a kickass soldier. Anyway, he seems like a mostly okay dude. I’m assuming when Heather took Emma’s phone to make a call, she called him and made out like Devlin was a dangerous person we needed to be protected from. I guess I’m a little more lenient toward him because of that. Still, he’s emotionally devastated and dealing with it by drinking too much. Not saying that to judge how he’s coping, but I don’t think he’s good leadership material. I did notice that with a high-ish relationship score, my character brought him a case of beer from the supply base. I found that oddly funny - I’m not sure if I’m encouraging alcohol abuse or if it’s a hint he should cool it with the whiskey. I’d also like to see Tom grow as a character, maybe the PC could affect this somehow – with a high friendship or a relationship he will accept your influence, and depending on your humanity score you encourage him to be a better person or more of a hardass?
Of the other NPCs – I really dislike Jason. I wasn’t happy to see him in part 3. When you visit him in part 1, he throws the PC out in the hall as soon as he hears a scary noise and he doesn’t even let her skype her sister first.* Also, I found out during the breakfast scene that he’s keeping his old girlfriend’s shriveled finger as a memento. EWW. I didn’t have strong feelings about either Dave or Javier, but I think it’s worrying that we’re now running out of gunmen. We still have Heather, Carl, Mindy, and potentially the PC, but Heather and Carl are unreliable IMO. I think the Carl/Candace/Jason situation is going to further jeopardize the group stability. I can’t tell much about Candace except she has bad taste in men 
Uncle Lou seems sympathetic, but we don’t see much of him. I’d like to what happens with to the scientist who tried to warn him (I assume that reference will go somewhere or you wouldn’t include it 
* I noticed a minor inconsistency here – the PC can stay in her apartment searching for news about the outbreak, until the building’s power cuts out and she is forced to leave. However, immediately out in the hall the lights are back like nothing happened, and Jason’s rig is running fine.
-
The character interaction is by far my favorite. But I’m the one person watching The Walking Dead for the characters rather than what new revolting thing the writers think up to do to zombies. I’d also like it if there were more options to get by zombies and bandits that aren’t guns/dexterity – maybe background could come into play here so the carpenter PC could MacGyver some traps to immobilize zombies, the basketball player could dodge/outrun them, or the preacher could pray they don’t see her?
-
I’m not sure what the two options would look like, but I’m happy enough with the current design of time passing with the occasional mission in real time.
-
In gameplay terms, I like both. However, in narrative terms, I’m not always comfortable with the group. My scientist and preacher are higher humanity/more moral and so they are less happy with what the group did to Devlin. My soldier is a little more survivalist and ruthless and thus more okay with sacrificing Devlin in order to secure group cohesion. Also, since I’m here, I thought the humanity score awards were a little wonky. In part one, there’s a maintenance man who was bitten and begs you to shoot him before he turns – shouldn’t the reason why you shoot him (if you do) matter? If it’s out of mercy, raise humanity; give a penalty if you shoot before he asks you to, because you feel threatened or whatever (same thing for the Dave situation – to gain humanity you basically make Carl do it instead of taking responsibility, how is that right?). I’d also like motive to matter in the cases where you don’t shoot someone – I’m thinking a mad scientist who would not shoot in this case so she could watch the change happen. Could be fun
Okay, whew. That was a lot of blather. I understand you have to balance ideas with actually getting this written, but I really enjoyed this story and wanted to give my input. I’m looking forward to future chapters either way
Oh, I noticed I forgot to mention Mindy. I liked her a lot! I think she’s a better love interest than Heather anyway. It’s nice to have more ladies out there kicking butt.
I think the reasoning behind the humanity penalty is, killing helpless friendly people makes you lose humanity. It’s not something you can just reason away, and generally, if you can, it means you’re already a psychopath.
You know, it’s funny. I didn’t really notice much difference between Mindy and Heather. It seems like Mindy is less of an asshole, but other than that, and appearances, they seem pretty similar.
I guess I can see the reasoning even if I disagree. It seems like euthanasia to me, although I may not be in the majority in supporting it. I don’t think that makes me a psychopath.
Re: Mindy, she’s nicer and she’s more reliable. She’s not perfect (wouldn’t alter the plan when I spotted the bandit ambush), but she’s more willing to step up to the plate when something needs to get done. IIRC she also used to run her own business, while I can’t tell what Heather used to do besides party with Emma.
I’m probably being judgmental at this point because I wouldn’t care if Heather was a flaky party girl if she wasn’t willing to abandon people she dislikes to oncoming zombies.
Can’t wait. <3 the game.
Played through the Oil Rig first try no failures as a soldier. =P
Congrats, Brian! The game is pretty easy for characters with good dex/str. Try a civilian character for a challenge.
I agree, I can’t wait for the next chapter. I want to see what happens next
1 Like
dang fuel run ~X( %-(
@bobsmyuncle Thanks for such thorough feedback. I’ll address each issue in order the way you listed them.
- I see your point about having a more objectionable choice. The good thing about CoG games is that I can add/change things even after publication if they make sense
One thing is that selfishness/self-preservation is an honest emotion in disaster settings, so I wanted that to be Heather’s role. Unlikable characters create drama, but I see how you wanted the option to object. That is something I can work on in a re-write.
- I try to add elements in game where you define the relationship as it exists. For example, you can act passively or forcefully toward Emma, which affects relationship score. Showing the past may bias you toward acting a certain way. I developed ZE to be devoid of stating too much of how YOU feel, because I don’t know how YOU feel. In terms of back story, I didn’t want to provide it for Emma and you, but maybe revealing so little hurts the story for some readers.
One running criticism I have read is that Heather and Emma are underdeveloped, so I may go back and work on them.
I don’t watch Mad Men! I watch every other AMC drama. I like Devlin as a character, and he’s fun to write. He definitely has a place in Part 4, if he lived in Part 3 (there is an option to kill him).
You are the first person to mention how Tom’s choices to send you on dangerous missions is unfair and may have ulterior motives. Glad you saw that. I don’t want to give away anything but this comes up in Part 4.
Jason’s reaction early on (kicking you out) was mostly to show how unstable and nutty he is. I tried the show, don’t tell approach but it maybe didn’t come off the best way.
The Carl/Jason/Candace triangle will come to a head in Part 4.
With the power going on and off in the apartment building, I have to chalk it up to taking license with setting to portray mood or, in Jason’s case, to show how dependent people are on electricity and other basic commodities of life.
- There are ways to use intelligence and will to avoid situations. As a minister, there are opportunities to pray to get out of a troublesome event, like in the Fuel mission, if you fail to kill the cowboy and partner in the control room, you can avoid them later by praying. But I can add more of those. It is a balance issue – if I add one every time there is an encounter, players will just know to hit the “pray” option. More well-rounded characters will succeed overall. For example, high charisma increases relationship gains while decreasing relationship losses. But very high charisma means you are weak in other areas, and no amount of charisma will save you from a zombie
I definitely am adding in more and more NPC interactions.
Do you like the style of conversation developed for Mindy in the Medicine mission?
- Humanity is a mixture of morality, compassion, empathy, sympathy, and link to whatever quality it is that makes us humans. I see losing humanity as slipping closer into a totally self-absorbed, survival-minded individual. Low humanity means you are losing your link to the civilized world. You are more prone to steal, to kill to survive, and avoid a situation that in non-apocalyptic times you would not avoid (like saving someone from drowning). I have considered doing a reworking of the system, but it is a major undertaking.
@Shoelip gave a good example of the humanity system.
Hopefully I have addressed most of your feedback. I definitely will consider it as I write Part 4 and update Parts 1-4.
@Brian soldier is fun, but try it as a scientist and see how different it can be. It adds a real challenge.
1 Like
i think you should be able to fall in love with some one other than heather
I personally loved the type of conversation Mindy had in the Medicine mission. It’s a way to flesh out all the characters, and I’d particularly love to see one done for each character if possible. It’s a way to flesh out all the characters, and Emma and Heather would really benefit from dialogue like that I think. You barely get to talk to Heather. 
@vampierkid222 you will be able to in Part 4
@Brian glad the conversation worked for you. I used the same style for Jason and Uncle Lou, and a small convo with Tom. I am thinking of the same in Part 4 for all characters.
Lawl, trying to run through the game with low Strength. Epic Fails abound.
(( “Thank’s for agreeing,” Tom says. ))
Shouldn’t have the apostrophe.
Also: (( “You weren’t supposed to shoot him!” you hear the woman shout. ))
Will occur even if the character is female~
I love this game and I totally agree with bobsmyuncle~
I can’t find this anywhere so far, but I’ve run into some weirdness in Part 3 (by the way, awesome game!) Everything is fine and dandy until I
SPOILERS
pass the crane in the fuel mission. Richard was fine over the intercom, but when he comes down to see me in person, my only options are to threaten him or to kill him. Being the priest, I choose threaten, though I’m not sure why. There is no text that identifies him as hostile -or- a zombie. Then he says he is already dying, which I assume means he is zombified, and I automatically kill him. Next page, we are loading fuel together and all buddy-buddy? The biggest issue is when I get back to the Cathedral, though. There are two people who ask for help, I get the next chapter button, press it, and it says that I have died.
What just happened? Is this all an error or something I have missed? Thanks so much.
Another wall of text incoming! Due to character limits I had to split this. Sorry in advance
“5. I see your point about having a more objectionable choice. The good thing about CoG games is that I can add/change things even after publication if they make sense
One thing is that selfishness/self-preservation is an honest emotion in disaster settings, so I wanted that to be Heather’s role. Unlikable characters create drama, but I see how you wanted the option to object. That is something I can work on in a re-write.”
Yeah, I think Heather’s behavior is pretty realistic. I don’t at all mind that some of the survivors are selfish, unhinged, or otherwise flawed. I like her as a character but not as a person, if that makes sense. I think a post-apocalyptic setting is great for exploring conflicting personalities and ideologies. There is a lot of interesting potential for a power struggle in a situation where Heather and the PC don’t get along, because Heather and Tom basically control the group, but Tom is also handing a lot of social power to the PC by making them the central provider. Political fighting probably isn’t going to be good for the group, but my favorite thing about the original Night of the Living Dead was the personality clashes and how the survivors are more dangerous to each other than the zombies are.
Anyway, thank you for considering an additional reaction to the docks scene. I’m sure Heather and Tom would just write off my character as being too trusting and naïve, but it’d be great to call them out on what they did at least once.
“4. I try to add elements in game where you define the relationship as it exists. For example, you can act passively or forcefully toward Emma, which affects relationship score. Showing the past may bias you toward acting a certain way. I developed ZE to be devoid of stating too much of how YOU feel, because I don’t know how YOU feel. In terms of back story, I didn’t want to provide it for Emma and you, but maybe revealing so little hurts the story for some readers.
One running criticism I have read is that Heather and Emma are underdeveloped, so I may go back and work on them.”
Fair enough, I can see the danger in dictating too much to the player. I just didn’t have enough of a sense of Emma as a person, I guess. What does she like about Heather? Is there anyone else in the group she gets along with? Anyone she doesn’t? What does she do with her time in the shelter? She said she wanted to leave because she hates being penned in by the zombies, I want to see where that goes. I could see her getting stir crazy, it seems like she doesn’t leave the church anymore now that Javier is dead. As for Heather, I want to see her fleshed out too. Maybe I would have a more nuanced opinion of her if she had more of a presence in the narrative. No promises though
“I don’t watch Mad Men! I watch every other AMC drama. I like Devlin as a character, and he’s fun to write. He definitely has a place in Part 4, if he lived in Part 3 (there is an option to kill him).”
I took the option to kill Devlin once, just to see it, and felt so bad afterward that I reset the game instead of playing on. The way Eugene tried to save him was just, ugh. I couldn’t continue with that PC. Congrats on that scene, btw. I’m glad he’ll be back in part 4.
“You are the first person to mention how Tom’s choices to send you on dangerous missions is unfair and may have ulterior motives. Glad you saw that. I don’t want to give away anything but this comes up in Part 4."
I’m happy to hear that there are reasons for it in the narrative beyond “But Thou Must.” I’m curious to discover Tom’s thinking on this (though in fairness, the medicine run seemed driven mostly by Emma). I will say I didn’t really suspect Tom until my second time through, because my first game I played a soldier and it did seem like the best use of her skills. With my civilians I started wondering, if it’s convenient to get rid of Devlin because he’s disruptive, what will it take until it’s convenient to “lose” the PC on a mission? I also picture my scientist becoming really frustrated that she’s constantly being pulled off her research project to mix it up with bandits and zombies despite her total lack of arms training
“Jason’s reaction early on (kicking you out) was mostly to show how unstable and nutty he is. I tried the show, don’t tell approach but it maybe didn’t come off the best way.”
What I got from that scene was that he was kinda socially awkward and isolated. Later from the breakfast conversation with him and Lou it is revealed that he is unstable, and the conversation option about him with Mindy shows him again as having poor social skills. I think his personality is coming across fine, for a minor character.
“The Carl/Jason/Candace triangle will come to a head in Part 4.”
I will be there with popcorn, but I hope Candace doesn’t get added to Jason’s memento collection.
“With the power going on and off in the apartment building, I have to chalk it up to taking license with setting to portray mood or, in Jason’s case, to show how dependent people are on electricity and other basic commodities of life.”
No problem. Maybe the building is just browning out and Jason has his own power supply. It wasn’t too jarring.
“2. There are ways to use intelligence and will to avoid situations. As a minister, there are opportunities to pray to get out of a troublesome event, like in the Fuel mission, if you fail to kill the cowboy and partner in the control room, you can avoid them later by praying. But I can add more of those. It is a balance issue – if I add one every time there is an encounter, players will just know to hit the “pray” option. More well-rounded characters will succeed overall. For example, high charisma increases relationship gains while decreasing relationship losses. But very high charisma means you are weak in other areas, and no amount of charisma will save you from a zombie”
That sounds cool, I must have just missed it with my preacher. I noticed a few “divine intervention” situations in the early escape chapters, but I thought they may have dropped off. I really enjoy it when the game recognizes background and treats characters slightly differently. I also liked that there were several ways around the bandit ambush on the medicine run, and that there were options to use the boiler room equipment on the zombies on the oil rig.
“I definitely am adding in more and more NPC interactions.
Do you like the style of conversation developed for Mindy in the Medicine mission?”
When asking Mindy about herself, I thought it worked pretty well as exposition if a little one-sided for a real conversation. Maybe turn it around and have one of the characters ask the PC about herself, and have a back and forth exchange. But when asking her about her opinion of other characters, as much as I valued the insight, it felt like an interrogation. In order to show what NPCs think of each other, it would be neat to see more interaction independent of the player, maybe we walk in on Lou talking to Tom, or Emma and Heather hanging out, that kind of thing. I liked the character scenes so far, such as Mindy’s haircut, the fight between Carl and Candace (and subsequent chat with Carl), and the little interactions between Lou and Jason in the breakfast scene.
“1. Humanity is a mixture of morality, compassion, empathy, sympathy, and link to whatever quality it is that makes us humans. I see losing humanity as slipping closer into a totally self-absorbed, survival-minded individual. Low humanity means you are losing your link to the civilized world. You are more prone to steal, to kill to survive, and avoid a situation that in non-apocalyptic times you would not avoid (like saving someone from drowning). I have considered doing a reworking of the system, but it is a major undertaking.”
I don’t mind the idea of the measurement, just that I occasionally disagree with what is considered immoral (for example, I have no argument with the situations you state above). I usually go with what I feel is in line with the character I’m playing, and my two civilians ended up with 80+ humanity despite picking a couple of “inhumane” options. It’s not worth the trouble of an overhaul when the game is still in development, if it will cost you momentum.
All that said, I am eagerly awaiting part 4!
@JimD I just wanted to let you know how amazing you are doing and how much I am still in love with your work! This is just pure genius! I cannot wait for Part 4 and the new couple for some reason gave me chills/uneasiness. Keep up the great work and you have my full positive energy infused support!!!
PS: Not sure if it’s been asked, but are any of the males npc romance options? I feel my female scientist is sometimes just so lonely lol though for some reason I find Delvin sounds attractive and scary all at the same time kind of like Tom actually lol!
@jammy thanks for the kind words. The new couple will definitely shake things up!
There will be male romance in Part 4. I believe in equal opportunity.
Thanks for the support!