Wow!!! This looks absolutely incredible! 
I canāt be grateful enough. But wow haha Iām completely mind blown by this. And from the great @Jacic no less!
Thank you so much!! How did you make this?
@nauhziy No problems at all, I was just having some fun and decided to make you something. Glad you like it!
I used a stock photo and played around with it/used some filters. (It started life as this photo https://pixabay.com/en/gladiator-street-performance-1249010/ )
(I just realised thereās some faint colour bleeding from something I used to make the lettering now that I have another look at it (knew that would come back to haunt me.) And oh wow, thereās a typo I thought I fixed that (Had a computer crash, obviously should have check it recovered properly. still shouldnāt have missed it though >.< ) Sorry about that, Iāll fix it next time I fire up photoshop 
)
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@ruhenri @Urban @Vergil16 @Ricemaker @EclecticEccentric
Thank you guys!! Iāll adjust the stats accordingly
@idonotlikeusernames
Well yes thatās definitely true. Well I would say you are the male RO expert haha. But yes thank you so much for the offer! Iāll try my best not to disturb you haha.
Lawā¦ hahaha. To be fair tech guys arenāt high up on the likability ladder either 
@Jacic
Still! It looks really cool and I think it looks awesome! Do you do all the illustrations for your own stories as well? Haha donāt worry about all the minor stuff really! Iām just really stoked that someone even bothered to open up photoshop for this wip hahaha. Thank you so much !!!
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Could be worse, could be customer service or again, the aforementioned devil in fine clothes.
Soā¦ if I buddy up with a Cato kid which one is easier to be around? In general, as of right now for me the girl i better because I refuse to lose to the boy.
If you only asked this sooner I went through the game the first time looking at the code to get every possible point.
Also funnily enough this is one of three games where charm isnāt my dump stat.
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Yep, I do make my own ones
No problem at all! I will fix it though (Canāt believe I put a typo in there!)
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Well as for me definitely the boy, cutest guy in the series perhaps even cuter then Kraterous. 
To be fair Titus is pretty hot too, but Decius is likely the cuter one.
No chance of either of their fathers executing us for getting them pregnant either. So having a gay romance with the sons may actually be safer then dating the daughters here.
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Beta testing still availableš²?
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As someone who plays a metric buttload of For Honor and who also frequents the For Honor subreddit, I can tell you that I have PTSD from the oil painting filter. That was the go to meme post on the subreddit for a good month or so.
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Well isnāt it a good thing that theyāre topaz glow filters and layer effects, not oil filters then 
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I know, it just looks uncomfortably like it. I had to do a double take at the image and then the page url before I realised that I was in fact on CoG.
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Geeze lad that looks smashing !
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@Dark_Stalker
What do you mean by easier to be around?
Ahhh man pity. But no worries! Haha I (think) Iāve made all the stats relatively useful so far haha.
@Jacic
Thatās incredible! I really love the work youāve done with Abysmās Veil and I can only imagine how rich the art for that would be like!
This is a very valid point hahaha, never thought about it that way hmmm
@mozbosh
Sure! Just drop me a message 
Iāve got a number of testers already, and it might be a while before you hear from me because Iām splitting up the testers to get different opinions, but if youāre interested, Iāll be honoured to have you on board!!
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Whoās more likely to be hostile towards us if we donāt act according to their whims.
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@Dark_Stalker
Ahh. Thereās a bit of sibling rivalry going on there, so youāll have to tread carefully!
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Well weāre slaves, Iād have to tread carefully in the first place 
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Based on PM conversation i definitely think the game needs trigger warning that it includes very large piece on racial and cultural relations and its more of Socio culture study than game about Rome otherwise people might feel scammed.
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Hi @CaesarCzech
This is a very serious allegation, and I am terribly sorry that you feel this way about the game. Iām currently on my way to work, but i will definitely respond accordingly once I get to sit down for a bit. Thank you so much for your feedback, and I look forward to having a good discussion on race, how it is portrayed in this game and its ramifications on the reader.
Thank you once again!
Best,
@nauhziy
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Hey @CaesarCzech!
I hope you donāt mind if I post up our conversation, itāll help everyone get a clearer picture of what we are talking about
PM Context
@CaesarCzech
Well Lets start with the Good things: Game seems fairly reactive to your choices in organic manner from simple thing like Gaul PC knowing latin to the end of the stuff with The decisions definitely having impact. Game furthermore feals fun in a way of characters feeling human, You writen Boudicea particulary well,
On the other hand i feel like you made things too dependant on the origin and should definitely work on this. the scene in coloseum where you essentially dont have choice but to separate into your racial group felt quite hamfisted and leaves sour taste. so i would say focus more on decisions rather than origin in later chapters.
@nauhziy
Thanks for the great feedback!
I see, are there other times when this came out strongly in a negative way? I must say that more can be done to balance that stat requirements for the cliques, but as of now it is difficult but not impossible to change cliques. Also, I wanted to make players feel that they are being racially judged, which can be an uncomfortable experience, but this was intentional.
@CaesarCzech
The problem is that combined with dependance upon origin it comes out less as Rome game, and more like Racial Discrimination the game, and whats worse it comes as hamfisted way, perhaps get ask someone who experienced discrimination for help ? if you want to keep it in keep it but tone it down a bit as it doesnt feel part of story but whole story by itself.
@nauhziy
Iām sorry if you felt that way. It is definitely not my intention. However, as a person living as a foreigner for a large part of my life, i feel like this already treads the middle ground quite well, making it such that it provokes emotions and conversations.
Ultimately, its historical setting affords me the opportunity to get ppl to put themselves in the shoes of someone else. And yes it might be uncomfortable, but that is exactly how i intend it to be. While i definitely DO NOT condone racial discrimination, i think this helps everyone realise that racial discrimination is not okay.
I hope you understand my rationale for this. And while i will revisit that section and rebalance the stats required, I must say that this is my vision for the game, to get ppl to think about race, social class, language and see how they affect peopleās lives and perspectives.
@CaesarCzech
Then you should possibly include trigger warning as i believe that there may be many people who would feel scammed buying game about racial relationship rather than the more mainstream game in ancient rome, As such i believe that if you intend to sell it This Warning is must, to do otherwise would be frankly tastamount to fraud and might sour people on both your game and any of the more unconventional of COG games and COG prides itself upon being welcoming as one of critical factors.
Let me first state that I do not condone racial discrimination and that I definitely DO NOT intend to use this as a vehicle or medium to promote racial discrimination. Having been a foreigner in almost every country Iāve lived in, I fully understand the stand that racial discrimination is something we should not have any tolerance for.
However, I believe that we should not shy away from getting people to think about social issues like race, privilege and social class. This is intentional, and I do intend to make certain scenes slightly provokative because 1) it is historically accurate 2) it is human nature 3) I hope to get readers/players to think a little about these issues. What I will not do is to use racial slurs or degrade the self worth of the player, I will not prescribe a world view and claim that I know better. But of course, it is important to think about these things and have an open, meaningful conversation about that, and why it might be a contentious issue. I will explain how these issues are portrayed in the game, and the rationale behind me writing those scenes in, but first, letās talk about the scene that you brought up.
SPOILER ALERT - You should play the demo if you have yet to
I believe the bulk of the dissatisfaction with the racial and cultural relations you are referring to are in Chapter 4, where the MC is given a choice to join the 3 possible cliques in the Ludus, the barbarians, the romans/greeks and the foreigners.
In this scene, there are 2 stat checks, one for the MCās renown (a combination of the MCās renown in rome and in the place of origin of the clique i.e. foreigners - renown in egypt), and the second stat check if for the MCās knowledge of the language. Do note that there is no stat check for race, despite the fact that I do keep track of it as a variable, and some of the dialogue changes based on the MCās race.
I believe that these stat checks make logical sense. On one hand, as a ludus clique, akin to a prison gang, you would definitely recruit people you have heard of. If this person was a local hero in your community back home, you would know and trust him, as opposed to someone youāve never heard of. Another key factor would be the ability to speak to the person, if you spoke english, and the person spoke spanish, I believe that it would be very hard to communicate, much less bond as a group.
While the stat checks are a bit steep, it is definitely possible to enter a clique of a different race, and join them based off your roman renown, and if you are from a mercantile background, you would have had the chance of learning a new language in Chapter 1 if you had decided to learn more about new cultures during your trip. Remember that the ancient world is unlike today, and most Gauls would never have seen an Egyptian, and vice versa. Unless youāve had the opportunity to/made an effort to get to know other cultures, it is unlikely that you will know how to act respectfully in their presence.
Ultimately, the idea and message I had hope to bring across (very subtly, but no doubt in a tangible manner) is the idea that privilege and social class is something that you will not really notice unless you lack it. A player from a noble background is going to have a much easier time than someone from a poor background, which manifests itself in differences in starting stats and different perks in Chapter 1.
While the stat checks in chapter 2 do not check for social class, you will realise that it is much easier to win the fight if you were from a better social class, simply because your stats are better and you started off with a stronger background. You might say this is unfair, but this is realistic. Having a good childhood sets you up with the skills and tools to succeed in life. Thatās not to say that you canāt succeed with a poor background, its just harder, as it is in the game and in real life.
Another key thing would be the different perspectives you can play in the game, which helps players/readers understand this point. Playing as a Noble, I come up against a pesky lowlife trying to steal my money for no reason. Playing as a Peasant, I see the nobles as rich, lazy people and I want to steal their money out of desperation. But these viewpoints are highly stereotypical and flawed in itself, but people, as in real life, do this all the time and only see their own point of view, whether it is correct or not.
One other case in point would be in Chapter 3, where your latin literacy, as well as your stats are tested, which then allows you to go to the different houses or paths. While a noble will find it relatively easy to end up in the House of Cato, essentially a guaranteed life of decency, a peasant would struggle to even get into the House of Brutus, and more likely be sent to the mines. Both the noble and peasant would think that life had dealt them a hard hand, and attribute their successes to themselves, not to their circumstance. As players play through the game multiple times, I hope that these small things would get people to think about that, and maybe have an open conversation on such topics if they realize that it makes them uncomfortable, and understand why it makes them uncomfortable.
With race and language, there are a number of times where it comes into play, for example when conversing with Taurus, or the Romans, it pays to learn Latin as a child, or be a Greek. Simply because back in ancient Rome, this was the case, Latin was the language people spoke, and Romans and Greeks are culturally very similar. As in the scene with the cliques, it pays to speak the language that the clique speaks, much like how you might get a discount at a chinese market if you speak mandarin, or find it easier to bond and communicate with locals in spain if you speak spanish.
The next two paragraphs are slightly off-topic, but I believe they help to drive my message across:
-
Across the book, there are scenes which depict terrible treatment against the slaves and trainees. Writing such content does not mean I actively promote such behaviour, but is a reflection of the world then, and a stark reminder of why slavery is such a terrible thing. By putting ourselves in the sobering world and life of a slave/gladiator, I hope that this story would help shift our view away from the glitz, glamour and glory that gladiators are often portrayed in, and towards the gritty, ugly experiences that make the entire idea of slavery and gladiators an utterly despicable thing that should never happen again.
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In Chapter 3, in the scene with the pleasure merchant, there is definitely tension and discomfort as the brutal reality of being a slave is spelt out in such a raw, visceral manner. The same can be said for the bathing scene in the House of Brutusā path. Again, writing such scenes does not mean I condone such acts, but I hope it makes players/readers think a bit more about how lucky we are to be to be playing out these role-playing games and reading these stories instead of having to live through that experience.
Again, I would like to point out that I do not, will not and should not implement stat checks for race. And I completely agree with you that racial discrimination is something that should not be condoned. I also agree that issues touching on race, privilege and class are contentious issues and should be treated with much care. But I must insist that while we do keep that in mind and continue to be conscientious and sensitive, we should not revert to a situation where we simply self-censor and sterilize all conversation about these issues. Sweeping such issues under the proverbial rug would only serve to exacerbate misunderstanding and stereotyping. It is only through open, honest dialogue that we can progress and understand why these issues exist, and how we can act as change-agents to make the world a slightly better place
But to allege that such content is akin to fraudulent behavior is frankly quite unjustified and if anything, this game is a more accurate depiction of Roman times because of this content. While I believe that no one should ever have to live through the experiences in this game. These things have happened then, and some of them still happen today. And perhaps such a stark juxtaposition of conditions will help us to appreciate our current privileges more, and make a clear stand to make sure that these things never happen again.
I apologize if it may seem that I have politicized a simple choice game. That is not my intention, but I cede that as a person I do have my own ideas, perspectives and biases, which make whatever I write inherently biased despite the fact that I have taken great pains to avoid prescribing a perfect approach or ideology. But if it acts as a proxy to real life and makes you talk about these issues, come to a better understanding of it and make a positive difference to the world, it would be amazing and I would be incredibly humbled!
^Having said all this, this IF piece is what it should be seen as, an interactive fiction game that is fun to play, good to read and fulfills our childhood dreams of playing as a gladiator in front of a roaring crowd.
I hope this answers your questions and concerns regarding this issue. Thank you so much for bringing it up, as I think its definitely an important matter and not something trivial we should just ignore. If you disagree with anything, or if anyone else reading this has things to add on/points to refute, Iām more than happy to discuss it! Thank you!
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Hey everyone,
So I did a bit of reflection (and after conversing with some of you). I have decided to stick to my style of keeping things historically accurate, and having my own ideas about the plot and the meaning behind that. However, I do believe that a good compromise would be to have a disclaimer from the get go warning players that such issues will be touched upon, so that at least players/readers wonāt have a cognitive disconnect between what they expect and what they find. @CaesarCzech I hope this is a good compromise! And thank you so much once again for bringing up this issue
Thanks everyone! (If anyone else has comments/ideas wrt this, feel free to speak out or drop me a msg!)
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@nauhziy
on reflection its possible this is a bit of my fault. i knew Roman i had high Reputation stat as Gaulish noble but stat checked for Both Roman and Greek, its possible you wanted to do Roman or Greek and it didnt work out from coding perspective in which case it might be my fault.
BTW Nauhziy this is not compromise you are doing exactly what i wanted. i never wanted to discourage you from writing what you want, i just wanted you to add disclaimer as someone might expect something more mainstream rather than more phylosophical in a way that can make you uncomfortable. I hope i didnt come of across as hostile, i may know language fluently but the feel of how words will be taken as that i unfortunately lack:slight_smile:
Honestly should you still want me you can be assured that i will do my uttermost to betatest your magnificient creation.
Remember Imperator, you are a mortal 
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