[WIP] Of Royal Birth and Forlorn Fate [Rewrite in progress, prologue posted August 11!]

Personally, i’m interested in Princess Jessica, mostly so we might be able to possibly plot for taking our birthright. While the protagonist might not be good at things like swordsmanship or charisma, that doesn’t mean he won’t be good in other things, innit?

For all we know, he might be a good administrator, for example.

2 Likes

True. We can do things differently through diplomacy and politics. That should get some people on our side to eventually achieve our goal. The twins are going to be bad rulers so we might as well replace them with someone who knows what they are doing. The twins are supposed to be some bad omen for the kingdom so we are doing everyone a favor

1 Like

I don’t really care about how they’ll be as much as the fact that it seems like it has some real potential for the protagonist’s fortune. If jessica and the third heir were able to take their respective kingdoms, you could have an castille-aragon tier union.

1 Like

It’s quite hard for me to make up my mind about the different ROs based on your descriptions, because at least for most of them you don’t say much about a lot of aspects that each often plays an important part in how attractive they are to me and, I suspect, also to many others. You write a lot about their attitudes, background and role in the story, but not much about their personality and looks and don’t give many indications about what I would call their “flirting style” either(like them being bold or shy, confrontational or nice/diplomatic). And if you plan on locking some of them to MCs of a particular gender, that is important too, because it means that they in practice won’t be an option to those who wants to play MC who have the same gender and sexual/romantic orientation as they have. So I think it would be better if you also included that other information about them in your RO writeup in this thread or you could give us a chance to meet at least the majority of them in the next chapter, so that we then can give you feedback on which ones we really like and which ones we don’t find that interesting.

4 Likes

How big of a power Crotor is? Like is it big? More powerful than mc’s kingdom? or less? Are they someone who could rival in strength with our kingdom? (maybe powerful ally in mc’s ambitions to overthrow their parents :eyes:) or this marriage was only to have some royal wedding and give people fake peace? And where Crotor’s strengst lie? I.e. military or resources?

3 Likes

I agree that lore info dumps must be given about Crotor as it is pretty crucial for the storyline,even knowing past rulers,founders,religion all that sort of important stuff.

Would also be cool to get a political map at some point to just visualise better the Kingdoms/places introduced,if it makes that many mentions to places as Sword of Rhivenia would really come in handy.

Plus would mean more worldbuilding tools that would help the game be more engaging to the players,feel the world closer/understand it on a sense.

4 Likes

If I recall correctly the little we get to see in game is that it’s similar to our MCs home kingdom and T least seams to have sufficient ability to be a ally worth marrying the mc to it’s heir.

I know it says Jeffrey but for whatever reason, my mind immediately went to Joffrey and now I can’t unsee it lol

Also, as far as the RO list goes, I don’t really agree with the people that say you need to lessen the amount of ROs. The choice is yours, and only you know your writing/creative ability enough to know whether or not the amount of ROs will be overwhelming. All I’d say is that I’d only recommend having a large list of ROs if you’re able to execute it well. IMO, it’s better to have a lesser amount of high quality romances than it is to have a vast amount of low quality/shallow romances or romances that don’t really feel like they’re being done justice in the writing (either because they’re too much of a side note or the writing’s uninspired or etc. etc.).

I also don’t agree with (or even understand) people saying that making the heir of Crotor’s gender unlocked somehow takes away from their potential as a RO. The only reason I can see for that is people who are like “oh, imagine someone being forced to marry someone that they’re not even attracted to because it goes against their sexuality” and I… don’t want to imagine something that cruel and don’t really see the entertainment in it… Maybe I missed something in the discussion that better explains what benefit there is to having a genderlocked spouse, but idk, something about the concept of someone being arranged to marry someone outside of their gender preference (or outside of their partner’s gender preference), particularly as a means of entertaining readers who think that’d be interesting drama to watch unfold, really doesn’t sit well with me, so I think making the heir gender switchable is the right choice. I think there’s a possibility I’d see it differently if the arranged marriage was the central issue/event of the story and the implications, consequences, etc. of not only being arranged to marry, but being arranged to marry someone with complete disregard to something even as basic as the gender you’re attracted to were going to be explored/critiqued/etc. (aka something that’s basically akin to social commentary via storytelling), but even then, it’d have to be done carefully and incredibly intelligently. It seems like too sensitive of an issue to overlook and/or throw in for the hell of it, especially when same sex couples didn’t have the right to marry in the US until… I wanna say 2011? and a Supreme Court justice recently wrote in their concurrence of a decision that essentially overturned the precedent that gave childbearers a right to abortion that he believed Obergefell (the same sex marriage case), among other cases, should also be revisited, because if it is brought in front of the Supreme Court now, there’s a pretty high likelihood that they’d overturn that precedent as well.

Sorry, this got super long super fast l😬

10 Likes

I’m very confused :joy:
The genderlocked RO was male, making the marriage same-sex if you played a man as well. I don’t know what abortion laws in the US got to do with anything?

I believe that was the point, yes - since straight men would never otherwise have to imagine what it would be like to be in an arranged marriage with someone whose gender they are not attracted to.
Straight women on the other hand still got the shorter end of the stick when it came to arranged marriage.
I think the point was to imagine “What if I was made to marry someone I’m not attracted to?” which might not sound very entertaining to you but it’s something often explored in period dramas.
After all, aren’t stories about experiencing things you wouldn’t in real life? It’s not for everyone but nothing is for everyone.

9 Likes

I feel like my point went over your head. There are MCs that can be women, yes? And not all women like men. And not all men like women either. The mentioning of the SCOTUS decision wasn’t about abortion specifically, it was about the implications of the decision on other decisions, such as same-sex marriage, but again, if that went over your head, then it is what it is. Google it if you’re curious, or don’t.

You keep mentioning a genderlocked male RO and what that would mean for a man, but again, there are women who like women and it feels weird to me for this to be centrally-focused on men being forced into same sex relationships, when 1) the MC isn’t genderlocked as male as far as I remember and 2) there are plenty of other ways to write about an arranged marriage where the partners aren’t attracted to each other or you’re not attracted to your partner or they’re not attracted to you that have nothing to do with sexuality, such as… just simply not being attracted to your partner.

I think there are certain topics that should only be written about if great care is taken when writing them. I think human sexuality, especially in regards to historically oppressed groups, is among those topics.

And I don’t know how to be any clearer on my points so if you still don’t get it, we can just agree to disagree now.

3 Likes

Maybe it did :slight_smile: I did say that I was confused by your sudden swerve into American politics since it’s completely irrelevant to this WIP.

But you are not upset for lesbian women. You are upset because this one hits too close to home. There is plenty of fiction which focuses on heterosexual arranged marriage, it’s a standard - but I’ve never seen so many straight men upset about this concept. There are no lesbians in this thread responding with the same ire.
Where were you guys in KAE thread? Since it has arranged heterosexual marriage and I recognize some of you from lurking there.

I think you’ve got confused actually. I was simply explaining what people found appealing in the previous demo - since you were asking. There’s no need to be upset :slight_smile:
The issue has been resolved and the arranged marriage RO is gender-changeable.

8 Likes

I- Well, this is incrediblllllly awkward. I’m a woman, so the entire premise of your argument is a fallacy.

Anyway, I said my piece, offered my feedback as requested by the author, and don’t see any point in going back and forth about an issue you aren’t understanding and are actually attempting to be condescending about.

Have a lovely day.

5 Likes

I’m sorry for assuming and for the misunderstanding. Have a lovely day as well!

2 Likes

The thing that I found a bit strange and also a bit unsettling to be honest was that, as far as I could tell, many of the people here advocating for keeping the heir RO a genderlocked male were pan/bi/straight woman or pan/bi/straight men who often did so on the grounds that basically it would be good for those only into women to experience being forced in-story to marry someone of a gender that they’re not attracted to, apparently because that’s considered to be a good way to simulate being forced to marry someone you’re not attracted to. Firstly, the logic here doesn’t stand up to closer scrutiny. If you have to be forced in-story to marry someone of a gender that you’re not attracted to in order to imagine being made to marry someone that you’re not attracted to, then by that logic, straight women and gay men should then have their MCs be forced to marry a princess.

And secondly what you’re then doing is in actual practice advocating that other readers/players should experience a certain kind situation that you really won’t experience, because it “will be good for them” in one way or another. This seems really problematic to me, if it became a trend for people here to agitate for WIPs to include something that is problematic to others here but not to themselves, precisely because it would be a good way to create more story-based angst for those people, it would certainly make more people here feel unwelcome. I also think that your focus should be more about what you yourself want to see and experience rather than what you think would be good for other people to see and experience, especially when those people loudly and clearly say that they don’t want to experience and see what you want them to see and experience. If you insist on knowing what’s best for them, you are basically overstepping their boundaries and you also come across as insensitive and disrespespectful. This would be the same if the situation in question was an arranged marriage to a genderlocked male character, a genderlocked female character, a character genderlocked as the same or opposite gender of the MC or any other kind of situation that someone are totally ok with and someone are not ok with at all. Of course in some situations, things being changed means you losing out on certain options. But this is clearly not the case here, except for any straight men or lesbians who would want the angst of always having the MC’s parents try to force them in-story to an arranged marriage to a man.

So, in short, a lot of the arguments for why you should have a genderlocked male heir RO, have seemed quite strange and illogical. If you’re a lesbian or straight male who wanted a gender-locked male heir RO, because you wanted that extra angst, fair enough, I guess, although I think most straight men and lesbians prefer the heir RO being gender selectable. But arguing that the heir RO should be gender-locked to male because it would be more angsty to some people who don’t include you, is not a good argument at all. Note: when I’m writing “you” here, I’m not talking about you specifically, rather I’m using it in a more general way. Anyway, that’s my main issues with a lot of the arguments that came up for having a Heir RO genderlocked to male.

I also have to admit that I don’t really understand this[quote=“saggittarius, post:331, topic:122504”]
Straight women on the other hand still got the shorter end of the stick when it came to arranged marriage.
[/quote] Did you mean to say that the lesbians also got the short end of the stick when it came to arranged marriage when the Heir RO was still genderlocked to male? Or did you actually mean that straight women got the short end of the stick when it came to arranged marriage in this WIP? Because, if it’s the last, I can’t see how that is the case at all.

4 Likes

ayo I played newest update, chose blacksmith, it played the blacksmith stuff then the apothecary stuff

Alright, let’s break this down, piece by piece.

I’m not “advocating” for keeping the prince/princess genderlocked male :slight_smile: I was explaining why the previous demo was appealing to some people since that sentiment keeps being expressed.

I was talking specifically about straight men, not “people attracted exclusively to women”. I don’t think it’s hard for any woman to imagine, it’s a standard that if there’s an arranged marriage in a medieval-like setting or historical fiction it’s almost always heterosexual - so nothing changes. Now the concept that the same can happen to a man is new and I (personally think) very ballsy.

Aalright, well you are losing me.

Maaybe.

No, I’m not trying to force other people to read a story they won’t enjoy. Nobody has to do that.

:thinking: Ok? But like you said - for themselves. They are speaking only for themselves and everyone can suggest something, they don’t need permission from the wider community :rofl:

Ahh, but what if what I want to experience and see is something other people don’t want to experience and see :wink: ? What then? We are in a deadlock!

I’m not a straight man or a lesbian but thank you.

As I said, you got the wrong impression, I was just explaining why people enjoyed the previous demo, not advocating for reverting back to having a genderlocked male prince.

I meant that women in history were getting the shorter end of the stick when it came to arranged marriage, I didn’t mean this WIP - I’m sorry, that was terribly written. I would explain but this is already off-topic enough.

5 Likes

I think at this point people are beating a dead horse for no reason. The RO was changed to gender flippable. The author has made no comment to change it again. Why are we still arguing about it? No one is being forced to be in the arranged marriage. No one is being forced to arrange marriage a gender they don’t want. The horse is dead. No point in staying offended and arguing in the thread about something that is no longer an issue. Horse is dead. No reason to die on the hill.

24 Likes

Agreed this argument is pointless and the prince/princess is only flippable to introduce what u are attracted to. It’s a nice way to introduce it. Get over it and enjoy the wip for what it is instead complaining about one scene that the author has no plan on changing

The funny part is, while we argue about it we don’t know how much time we’ll spend with prince/princess RO or even if the arranged marriage will be arranged. It could just turn out to be a flavour-text choice in the end.
Based on RO list we won’t be spending a lot of time in a castle, this game doesn’t seem to be about succession politics at all.

7 Likes

Just to be clear, like I wrote in my previous comment, when I wrote “you”, I wasn’t talking about you specifically, but in a more general way, about the people who did earlier on(as far as I could tell) advocate for keeping the Heir RO a genderlocked male. So, although some of what I said may apply to some of your arguments too, I wasn’t attacking you in particular, more that particular line of argument and comments like the one I made about lesbians or straight men who wanted that RO to be gender-locked for the angst, was about those who actually are straight men and lesbians and wanted that. I’m well aware that you in your comment were mainly summarizing that particular line of argument, but it did feel important to state my thoughts about those particular arguments.

I don’t want to derail this thread much more by continuing this particular discussion about this already resolved issue, but I just want to say this I think, that most, if not all arguments for why it was cool/ballsy what have you that straight men had their MC’s parents trying to force them into marriage with another guy, could be used for why it would be ballsy/cool etc for straight women to have their MC being forced into a marriage with another woman. There were a couple of other points where it seems I didn’t make myself fully clear, but I don’t want my Aspiness to lead me too much astray here and make me too nitpicky either, by spending a lot of time explaining them and in that way prolonging this discussion. So, I’ll just wish you a good day and a good week and hope that you didn’t feel that personally attacked by my previous comment, since like I said I wasn’t really trying to attack you personally. And to all of you who are tired of discussions about this particular issue, I’ll try to stay away from it as much as I can from now on.

3 Likes