(WIP) Curse of the Spirit ☉ (Updated August 24)

That actually makes me more afraid… :fearful:

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image

:upside_down_face:
:fox_face:

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But there are many definition with the term “suffer” , and it can be further divided into mental or physical suffering …

Leo seems a tough guy, so i don’t think he should endure any physical suffering :wink:

But mental suffering is an intriguing prospect … and it can bring up the best of Leo in term of character building…

For instant , based on my fanfic presumption … Leo can endure mental suffering on the following outcome :slight_smile:

  1. Leo had accidentally harm Theta and Saro in collateral damage when trying to hurt Lilith… hence Leo will inadvertently suffer from self blaming or guilt for his action. And if MC took the blame for him, surely Leo will endure some sort of traumatic suffering for embroiling MC in his mess…

  2. Leo had harm Lilith , indirectly cause unimaginative pain and traumatic outcome to MC ( who loves Lilith ) … at the same time indirectly cause traumatic harm to Theta ( who loves MC but have to witness MC’s traumatic suffering due to Lilith’s suffering) ,Hence Leo suffer because he had cause harm to two persons he like , by hurting the person who he dislikes :slight_smile:

In the end… @aequa can still comes out with a good story by making all her characters “suffer” in a chain event(s) , …it also provide good moral lesson through all these suffering , which is " Revenge and Hatred serve nothing , those who make the bed ill… sleep there eventually " :wink:

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I always imagined him as a twink. Like a mischievous elf, very frail.

Or… or just hear me out. He feels good about hurting Lilith and is unrepentant. Though I think the unimaginable pain is @Eric_knight specific anyway.

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That is a possibility …based on MC’s choice, so in your case Leo is not suffering right ? :slight_smile:

So…i am sad to know that, if Leo is following my route, he will be suffering :wink:

Are you sure? I mean look at Batman…
Also the bad people are often most OP until the creator decides to end the story or turn them into Gandhi… because no one likes a bad guy who wins, in fiction …

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Why not both? :upside_down_face:
.

Summary

self-satisfaction?
my reasoning
i woulnt care if im getting whatever i lost back. I would just make tehm suffer slower and longer and a lot worse than i did. :upside_down_face:

But elves are supposed to be smart. ur saying he is smart?
Also why elf? dont like elves?

However, it makes a lot more sense when they do.

:fox_face:

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Santa’s elves…

I remember rooting for the bad guy a lot…

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We love a mental suffering arc. But I also realize that I’m writing about kids and I feel too bad making them suffer. Unless it’s Lilith. Lilith can suffer a cliche childhood and it’s okay. No one else is allowed to have bad parents. Unless they’re Saro. But only slightly.

…Tch… No…

!!! ouch !!!

u want me to cry. i’ll cry if that’s what u want. do u want a cup to put them in. i got a nice cup u can store my tears in. <3

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I agree with your reasoning … i feel bad for making Leo suffer now :sweat:
So… when Leo hurt Lilith next time, i will tell him : " hey buddy, i think you were not yourself when hurting Lilith…so don’t feel guilty because i don’t blame you, i will ask Lilith to forgive you too when she wake up " :slight_smile:
I can use my own power to heal Lilith …so no harm should be done, Leo shouldn’t suffer from the burden of guilt…

Hey…buddy i am so glad you brought up Batman :smile:
Alright, base on my interpretation of the christopher Nolan + Christian Bale version of the Batman trilogy… Batman realised he wasted his entire life out of hatred and revenge , while in the end…he himself received the similar retribution from Talia al-Ghul and Bane, out of hatred and vengeance towards Batman …Talia and Bane almost drag the entire city and those beyond down with Batman. Harming more innocent lives with the revenge and hatred started by Batman himself …

I believe due to his own understanding , Batman decided to pass the torch to Robin in the end and feign his own death so that he and Selina can have an alternate life of their own together :slight_smile:

At the mean time , i don’t think Revenge and hatred are equivalent to “Bad” people … because just being “Bad” doesn’t mean that one has to be “Evil”, “hateful” and "vengeful " , for example Selina the Catwoman is considered a “bad” villain , who used the art of stealth and burglary for her own pleasure … she could be view as a happy go lucky soul who decided to help Batman in the end, Morgana in King Arthur Legend of the soul is an enigmatic “Bad” witch who breed giant eagle , snakes and hydra that can devour an entire human …but she was not vengeful and hateful towards the genesis of the Mages by Modred , she aim to help Arthur in order to maintain peace and balance among different races in Britain…

And finally back to Lilith , she can be a “bad” person depend on individual interpretation …but she is not hateful and vengeful aiming to hurt someone, Lilith may be a bit chaotic and torn within her inner struggles… but Lilith doesn’t need to turn into Gandhi for me to love her, and i don’t mind her winning in the end…

one more example is the Wardstone Chronicles , Alice …the most powerful witch in the world never turn into a saint , she help the protagonist out of her own love to him…and she still roam free in the final ending , the chronicles have been liked and well received in the world … readers don’t mind a malevolent witch is winning together with the protagonist :slight_smile:

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Killjoys :unamused:

Also If Leo was like a lioness. (pun not intended), MC would be his cub.
What im saying is that it would make for leo to try and harm lilith since she literally clawed MC’s arm, Plus she regularly “mistreats” MC.
“mommy” gotta protect his “cub”.

:fox_face:

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You know whenever Batman finds his parent’s killer, he causes his death and is never strung up on it right? Heck the elseworld dad version gave him a gun with a single bullet.

And why are we blaming Batman for rebelling against assassins? The whole revenge thing was started by him following his conscious to not kill people.

, , ,I feel like I need a link to all of @aequa’s on quotes on Lilith for these moments.

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Hey hey …i was not blaming Batman at all :smile:

I was just saying, if Batman could be more compromise and less vengeful … perhaps there can be happier ending with his dealing with the League of Assassins , well… Batman could had save Ra’s al-Ghul and tried to turn them internally …just like the animated version of Batman did :wink:

In the animated version, Batman became the champion of League of Assassin and married Talia al-Ghul, earning the right to co-leads the League of Assassins , thus ensuring the League of Assassins in under control, not doing “extreme” crimes …while at the same time, hindrance towards other crime organisations…

Assuming Lilith is resembling Talia al-Ghul, if we show her love the way the animated version Batman did to Talia (and her father), Lilith will be a loyal and valuable companion to MC …

If we are cruel to Lilith and un-compromise to her mother , Lilith could be the evil version of Talia in the movie version of Batman… :slight_smile:

@aequa said we can interpret her action of clawing us with our own interpretation :wink: My perception is that Lilith scratch a mark on us with Good intention , and indicating that she actually care for me :grin:

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I mean, just declining her offer to go outside in Chapter 3 pisses her off, but Eric said he hasn’t tried that. I would put some of the quotes from new chapters here, but most of them have spoilers lol.

I did say that. If you r e a l l y were looking for something, I guess you could argue that Lilith hurt them so they’d stay away from her, which means that she would care at least a little. Though there’s also the fact that Lilith should be able to control herself like everyone else. And even then, if you want someone to stay away from you because you’re afraid of hurting them, you should probably just say that and not physically harm them. But it does demonstrate her intentions better…

Idk. It’s okay to be aware of her bad intentions and still like her.

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Dude Ra’s is insane in most versions and wants batman to lead the assassins and marry his daughter. (He even held her hostage in the Arkham series) I mean it could be interpreted as less vengeance and more he’s too dangerous o and kill off a good portion of humanity. Plus since he can be revived he’s the one who batman is willing to let die the most in comics anyway.

I mean, that’s what the spoiler tag is for… you’re enabling him, put down the iron fist!

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Not talking about our opnion, Im talking about what mommy Leo thinks.
( i still think Lilith intends to both harm and keep us away from her.)

Not gonna work. people are stubborn. MY MC for instance

:hugs:

:fox_face:

@aequa
Anyone asked what lilith thinks of MCs friends? OR what our friends think of her?
Also is Leo still mother-like?

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In the animated version, Ra’s was more “kind”… Talia and Batman had a son who will become Ra’s successor , Ra’s got killed by Deathstroke in a coup, his body (according to Talia) was badly disintegrate before he reach the Lazarus Pit, giving him no chance to revive…

Talia then seek Batman to look after their son as she want to embark a vengeance to Deathstroke, she was captured but refuse to give up Batman’s identity :slight_smile:

Hmmmm … so the resulting consequence of “pissing Lilith off” is based on MC’s earlier cause of action right? :slight_smile: In this case, it should be define as the event of “Cause and consequence " … which ,in order to examine both " tragedies and accomplishments” of an event/timeline, we are usually interested in the questions of how and why. These questions start the search for causes: what were the actions, beliefs, and circumstances that led to these consequences? … People have " motivations and reasons" for taking action (or for sitting it out), but causes go beyond these, in Lilith’s case one of the causes that result in her “pissing off” was MC’s choice of behaviour towards her gentle request , and it also had to coincide with the manner in which MC’s replies Lilith’s plea … It is perfectly logical that if MC rejected Lilith’s plea in a rude , un-chivalrous manner that perhaps include “vulgar sentence”, she will understandable be pissing off by the way she was treat right ? I didn’t pick this “cause of action” in my playthrough , but i imagine Lilith perhaps respond with a slap in the face and a kick to the knee? That was actually some standard reaction from a girl who feels that she had been mistreat, and it certainly shouldn’t be view as an act of violence or vengeance … since it was a case of an earlier cause that trigger the resultant consequence :slight_smile:

I had just finish reading the original Zombie Exodus, and had gone through a marvelous romance experience with Heather, i believe both Lilith and Heather share certain resemblance between them … the relationship of MC with Lilith and Heather is sort of like “Symbiosis Mutualism”, which is type of a close and long-term interaction between two different individual ( in terms of personality and character) , where each individual benefits from the trust of one another. Is this consider love or romantic relationship ? Hard to say …but it usually results in a fierce loyalty and dependent on each other… In Lilith’s case , i could be the ONLY person she knows she can trust and rely upon , perhaps i am also the only friend she can mistreat upon without fear of repercussions… for this reason, Lilith will be fiercely loyal to our relationship in her search of trusted companionship . For my case , I will be dependent of Lilith in search of my return to innocence, the return to my true self, the nativity and ideal which i lost … well , that’s exactly my experience when my MC gone through the old memory :smile:

Perhaps you are her only friend, and she is too proud or shy(?) to admit it and so treats you like shit…

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I’m going to have to take your word for it. (especially since I don’t know which animated batman your talking about)
Their son’s a jerk too.

I’d consider it parasitism…

She reacts the same way as the nice options, she always circles back to blaming you.

… “My girlfriend broke up with me, I’m gonna kill her :blush:
Or bully and harass since that’s what Lilith is doing.

Just a standard reaction so it’s not violent or revenge :blush:

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