Why are you so angry?


#1

An incredible analysis of the “angry gamer”, using the horrible backlash towards Anita Sarkeesian, as well as GamerGate as it’s case study. I found it incredibly insightful and thought provoking. The points and questions it raises can be applied to more than just gaming, and transcend the immediate context it provides to make said points. I’ve linked the first video to this post, and at the time of writing there have already been five videos uploaded. I strongly recommend watching each of them.


#2

Interesting.

Though, Angry Jack is not a new kind of person. I think that to some extent internet haters have been around since before the internet, it’s just harder to ignore them now.

Edit: watching the second video, it sounds like the point is that people don’t like questioning their beliefs and get defensive and hostile when something that makes them doubt themselves happens. Yeah, sounds about right.


#3

while there are points i agree with. and it totaly has gone far above anything it need too.

Anita talk`s a good game but when you really hear what she says 95% of it is BS or totally not relevant too the topic.

do i think she should get death treats for it no. but i wish she stop lying about things she clearly does not know a thing about.


#4

I’ve heard a few people call her a liar now. The video actually addresses that directly, I wonder what your opinions on that were?

Do you have examples of her lies?


#5

almost everything i have seen her say about any game she “reviews”

no concept of context.
“oh the sceen`s in the horror game show to much blood and gore and then a female character gets hurt and its all because men what too keep the females down”

its called story telling, if you want them too chance the story, write something.
you dont see me complaining about when you have a female lead how many men she kills and how.
are video game male heavy sure, but seeing there are far more men then woman in the industry that`s not really a supprice is it?


#6

With regard to the “video games are made for men because more men like video games” argument: isn’t it possible that you have cause and effect mixed up here, at least to some extent? Perhaps if video games were more representative, more people would be interested in them.

That’s not to say that men are only interested in games with male protagonists or women would only want to play games about women. To reduce it to a platitude so simple is to do a disservice to both men and women (and everyone else). I, though female, can perfectly well enjoy a game with a male protagonist. Why should the fact that gamers are allegedly mostly men dictate that game protagonists should also be mostly men?


#7

hm watched the first two and what I got from the second part was that the people he was pointing out were more the type of how dare you refuse or how dare you show me up kind. just using the drinking Example if I offer someone a beer or Alcohol Drink and they say they don’t drink I then ask if they want something else non Alcoholic or point out where they would be at.that’s just good manners but if the person refused and started to give you grief over drinking or on the other hand not drinking then they’re just rude and that pisses people off. so for the question of why you’re so angry …rude people

I’ve never heard of the lady in the first part so I can’t say if she’s right or wrong but looking at a few of those posts she has receive I don’t care nobody deserves threats of rape for their opinion.that makes me angry. so ultimately a******s of the world make me angry.


#8

That’s not lying though. That’s her personal opinion and I would say a valid critique. Is it the only possible interpretation, no? But that doesn’t make her a liar.

She is writing something in an attempt to highlight the problems.

That’s not a good comparison.

Do you know why there are more men in the game industry than women?


#9

I’d suggest directly quoting since that’s not actually what @Redhead222 says. He says

There’s actually a difference in arguments there. He doesn’t say why there are more men in the industry, just that there are. Which is true. It’s also true that because there’s more men making games, most games are male-heavy and aimed at men. Straight men.

@RedHead222 Got anothr question. You say “but i wish she stop lying about things she clearly does not know a thing about.”. I take it you mean anything about games?

Who do you think knows more about feminism though? Do you think you know more than she does about it?


#10

I don’t think there’s anything such as Gamer Gate. The term Gate is attached to everything that people think is a scandal. They called the Gov of NY closing highways “Bridge-Gate”. From what I understand it came from a woman who worked at Bioware, she suggested they have some way to skip the combat for people who have busy life’s just go into the interactions.

Some male gamer’s were upset, not that she was a female but the idea she tossed around. Then she said something back to them, I think it was along the lines of “Your upset I’m a female working at Bioware” then it exploded from there. People signing up on there forums to troll her and tweet her nasty messages.

I think PC culture in general is easy to make upset. People are outraged over every little thing on the internet, some are very silly. It’s our ability to post comments from a screen name, makes us more bold then we would in real life.


#11

Ah, fair point. I interpreted a little more liberally than I should have. I took the linking in-sentence between games being “male-heavy” (which I took to mean aimed at men and having male protagonists/POVs) and men being in the industry (as both customers and producers, I thought), to be a causal explanation, since he said one makes the other unsurprising.

I think, however, that my second point still stands, which is to say that I think explaining “male-heaviness” in games by reference to the majority gender (and sexual orientation) of game makers/players is to assume that men are only (or perhaps merely overwhelmingly) interested in narratives about (straight, white, cisgender) men. I think that’s actually an explanation that trades on, of all things, negative stereotypes about (straight, white, cis) men.


#12

There’s definitely a thing called Gamer Gate. It was a term coined by Adam Baldwin. I’d suggest googling it to find out more (if you’re actually being serious here.) But yes the gate suffix is certainly over-used.

As for the incident you’re speaking of, I hadn’t heard of that. I did know that some of the Bioware writers did get a really hard time though.

The ability to not be upset by things is a privilege. Especially if these things are never actually directly aimed at you. It’s easy to not be upset by something that will never effect you.

@Kurokiku Not all men. :slight_smile: (Is that a hashtag or something?) Look at Choice of Games, for instance? Look at all the straight men making games around here that are deliberately inclusive. I actually love that. I love that it’s encouraged. I love that the norms are questioned.

I think there is a lot of encouraging men to just be interested in that single narrative, the narrative of the straight white man. That they should only watch movies starring him and anything else is chick flicks, that they should generally only play those games. It starts as children, boys are actively discouraged from reading books with female protagonists or from identifying with girls in a way that girls are encouraged to do.

I do think the male heaviness in games is because the majority of people in the games industry are men. Just look at the corners where that’s not the case, you get more diverse stories.


#13

@FairyGodfeather I think we’re in agreement. I definitely don’t think that all men are exclusively interested in such narratives as I was talking about; that’s what I was trying (perhaps clumsily) to get at in my post. I’m extremely fond of this little corner of the internet particularly because it is chock-full of counterexamples to thinking like that.

While the fact that most games in the mainstream are male-aimed is explicable by the fact that most people in the industry are men, it has the feel of an excuse. Like “of course video game narratives are dominated by (cis, etc.) men; they’re the majority.” To me, this carries a certain kind of implication when invoked, particularly because it is often used as a “logical” defense of continuing in the same vein (i.e., making more of the same games).

The implication is that there’s nothing wrong with this, that under-representing (at best, tokenizing or stereotyping or dehumanizing at worst) anyone but (SWC) men is fine, because they’re under-represented in the target demographic anyway. I didn’t get into this bit in my initial reply to @redhead222, because I’m assuming this implication was not something he intended.


#14

umm this is kind of going off topic isn’t it?


#15

@Alwayswandering If you think posts are off topic then please feel free to flag them, or contact a moderator. If you think a moderator’s posts are off topic, the same applies. (One of the other mods will deal with it since it’d be bad form for a mod to deal with their own flags.)

Sexism and representation in the games industry are on topic here. You can’t really discuss the tropes vs women series without mentioning it. It’s directly tied into what she’s writing about.

@Kurokiku I understand what you’re saying. And I see what you mean about the implication. I definitely don’t think that that implication should be the case.


#16

I don’t think that’s really fair to say I would only get upset at the things that impact me, and not upset at things that don’t. Because that’s simply not true. I follow politics in the news. I get upset all the time at different things that don’t directly impact me they impact someone else I have compassion for.

(I am being serious) I just think sometimes the media over hypes things. They attached Gate to nearly every single thing that they assumed was a scandal. Bridge-Gate. IRS-Gate. It seems like everything has a gate attached to it.

I just wanted to point out. I’m not sure how you assumed from my post. I only get upset things at directly effect me. I just don’t fundamentally agree with the whole Gamers Gate. That doesn’t make me non compassionate to other people’s feelings. We just have a different point of view.


#17

It would be fantastic if you were right. Unfortunately, you’re very wrong.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gamergate_controversy is a great place to start learning about the whole mess. The initial summary from that page:

The Gamergate controversy concerns sexism in video game culture. It garnered significant public attention after August 2014, when several women within the video game industry, including game developers Zoe Quinn and Brianna Wu and feminist cultural critic Anita Sarkeesian, were subjected to a sustained campaign of misogynistic attacks. The campaign was coordinated in the online forums of Reddit, 4chan, and 8chan in an anonymous and amorphous movement that ultimately came to be represented by the Twitter hashtag #gamergate. The harassment included doxing, threats of rape, death threats and the threat of a mass shooting at a university speaking event.

If you’d prefer something less dry, Gawker had a good explanation, but it’s quite dated (October 2014). Still, everything there remains basically true, save that the Intel incident is no longer “last month” and the GamerGate movement has decreased significantly in size and activity.

The context for my response: I’m a professional game developer. I’ve worked for Harmonix, Simutronics, and Giant Spacekat (which is Brianna Wu’s company). I wrote about GamerGate in October 2014, and my perspective is basically the same as it was then, too.

I personally know more than two dozen people who were targets of harassment. That harassment was sufficiently toxic to drive several colleagues of mine out of the industry. While I deeply regret seeing them go, I can sympathize with the decision they made.

It’s almost been a year since the harassers adopted Adam Baldwin’s hashtag. In that time, the movement has lost the vast majority of its following along with essentially all of its credibility. These are both good things.

But it still existed, and (in diminished form) still exists. When you say “there’s no such thing as GamerGate”, it frustrates me because it dismisses the harm that was done and the people who were hurt, and who are still being hurt. Most of those people just wanted to make games (or write about games, or study games), and they may never feel safe enough to do that again.


#18

You’re right, that’s not fair to say. And I am glad that you are compassionate to other people’s feelings even if they disagree with you.


#19

I don’t like to respond too much about politics. I often get sucked into heated debates without knowing it. I read what you had to say, and I’m going to offer my point of view. You say this started around 2014, then it stopped or decreased significantly.

If this was a true Gamer Gate scandal. (I’m not even sure what “Gamer Gate” is) Why did the harassment stop shortly after 2014. If this was ongoing and constant harassment of females in video game company. We would see daily messages on twitter.

I just feel like some male gamer’s do get upset at females but not for being females. People like games the way they are. Some females I heard complained about the tight clothing some females wore in gaming, and the way they are portrayed sexually suggestive Some male gamer’s do fly off the handle. In their minds they see these people as trying to destroy the very thing they like in video games.

Just like in High School, not all people are good people. Not everyone gets along. I really don’t see it as a movement to push females out of the video game corporations. I know many females working in high profile jobs at video gaming companies. I think Tell Tale head of PR is a female. I know they have female voices, and workers on their payroll.

I personally would never harass a female or anyone over the internet. I don’t deny these things happen. I feel it has less to do with Gamer’s Gate. It has more to do with people on the internet in general say nasty things when they think they can hide behind a screen name. It’s not just to females.

I just don’t understand. I don’t mean to diminish it. If this was such a massive problem. You said it started in 2014, then why did it die off or slow down in size. Is this related to all women in general or just women in the video gaming company. I’m not going to say it never existed I don’t know. I just know the media(coming from someone who watches alot of news) likes to throw wood on the fire so to speak. Not saying it didn’t exist. I’m curious at why the sudden drop of the size if this is such a problem.


#20

I can see that you mean well, but I can also see from what you’re saying that you haven’t read either the Wikipedia or the Gawker article that I linked to, so I’m going to redirect you there. Restating it all in my own words isn’t going to help.