Edward was far from a faceless character. The popular opinion is that he’s right behind Ezio as the best character for the series. In my opinion he’s a better character than Ezio was.
I love Edward too, I meant the tech employee in the present time…
1 Like
There is a market for games more “grounded” in a historical background, and those interested will be willing to give up certain features at the expense of the desired historical accuracy. People play Gary Grigsby’s War in the East to deal with the logistical nightmare that is the Eastern Front at the expense of it being a niche title with a hefty price point and a bad UI. People don’t play Assassin’s Creed to expect a perfect representation of the Levant in the Third Crusade.
There is a sliding scale between how important historical accuracy is as a part of a game’s experience. Some games will sacrifice historical accuracy to allow innovation in other fields; others don’t. Both ends are perfectly legitimate, I think, so long as it’s clear. Granted, in some cases it is a fictional setting grounded in a real life historical setting, and there can be arguments against genderlocking since the setting is already different from real life, but equally there is a scale of how grounded it is in the real life historical setting.
Infinity and Aswick are oftain raised as examples of this, but just as there is an market for a historical setting there is also a market for fictional settings based upon a historical setting. There are some who play Infinity because the MC is Richard Sharpe on a horse in a Concert of Europe setting with magic. They may desire a representation of the society at those times as well; the amateur warfare of the pre-Cardwell Reforms British Army, the disgust at the poor, and the minimised role of women. There is a desire for it, an appeal in it, to feel authentic, to parallel real history.
Now there is an argument for including a female option in games focusing upon historical accuracy, but that would require much more work and research so that it is illustrated respectfully. The life of an Athenian-born woman in Classical Athens is completely different from an Athenian citizen. However, as a consequence of the attempt to follow history closer the stories will be very different and the author may not wish to write a path can potentially be completely different. Yes, there are historical exceptions, but they have to be portrayed as that: exceptions, and will still face barriers. If they are to be portrayed as an exception, they should face the same barriers. But that is a massive amount of work.
To make a comparison of one that’s going on right now, there is a difference between Battlefield V and games like Post Scriptum, Day of Infamy or Red Orchestra. There has been a considerable dispute (to put it lightly; in fact, it’s rather vociferous and frankly ugly) over the inclusion of women (among other things). The historical accuracy argument used by some critics holds less weight in Battlefield V because it’s a series that quite clearly surrenders historical accuracy to reach a wider audience by making it a different experience (e.g. in Battlefield 1, the target audience might get bored with just standard bolt-action rifles, so they gave everyone prototype autos). That is perfectly legitimate. However, this argument doesn’t really hold that much weight when the focus is upon historical accuracy, since while there were women who fought on the front battle-lines, they were the minority and in selected areas. Thus, it would be odd to female soldiers to be present at Salerno (e.g. for Day of Infamy).
In fantasy settings, hardly anybody complains about female soldiers in Valkyria Chronicles because that is established as a thing in the setting. Equally, nobody expects female soldiers in Chivalry: Medieval Warfare because the setting is focused upon the brutal aspect of Western European medieval warfare based upon semi-professional forces in a bastard feudal society and those were comprised of men historically.
If historical accuracy is a major focus, it would be disingenuous to show that there was equality when there wasn’t. However, if an author wishes to genderlock to achieve greater historical accuracy for the one plot line they wish to write, I think that’s reasonable if there is a clear and evident reason behind it, and the corresponding inequality is illustrated. They should probably expect a loss in readership as a result, but I don’t think they didn’t expect that in the first place.
5 Likes
To be honest I don’t know what we were in that game. We could’ve been a walking pencil with hands for all I know.
@Thfphen110 If your talking about Assassins Creed Odyssey then the female protagonist is Athenian she and the male are both Spartans.
- Spartan Girls were given the same exercise regimen as boys.
- She’s an outcast, not beholden to Spartan traditions or others.
- Spartan woman had more rights than any other place in Greece like owning land, divorcing their husbands or having more than one spouse.
This is from Wikipedia “The Spartan exercise regimen for girls was designed to make them “every bit as fit as their brothers”.[13] They learnt to ride,[14] and votive offerings have been discovered depicting Spartan women on horseback.[15] Other exercise for Spartan women included running, wrestling, throwing the discus and javelin, and “trials of strength”.”
Spartan women were the protectors of their land when the men were out to war. The Spartan people had no issues with leaving the women as their defenders, and the women was very good as doing so.
I cant exactly remember the details, but I remember reading about how they absolutely crushed a slave rebellion when they were vastly outnumbered.
In conclusion spartan women were badass.
4 Likes
John attempting to put his wife in a walking pencil sounds great.
Nani? I need an explanation.
1 Like
Actually it wasn’t a reference towards Assassin’s Creed Odyssey, just a comment on how Classical Athens, considered the birthplace of democracy, expected Athenian women to be kept indoors most of the time. I am perfectly aware of how Spartan women had a much different lifestyle, but again Spartan women, to my knowledge, rarely left Lacedaemon and it was the men who usually went off and did all of the fighting outside of Lacedaemon (along with the perioikoi and the helots).
I don’t have any issue with Assassin’s Creed since it’s never pretended to hold tight to history, and besides they’re all wearing the wrong types of armour anyhow 
2 Likes
In the new Assassins Creed you can play as a male or female (Alexios/Kassandra) who are the grandkids of King Leonidas.
@Thfphen110 Ok my bad assumed that what you were talking about since AC was brought up.
Valkyria Chronicles had boobsocks and chainmail bikinis, didn’t it? So, man, you just missed the complains AND the point.
1 Like
I was questioning being Athenian and Spartan.
Meh, people would say so disincluding the first civilization until Unity.
1 Like
Oh I assumed incorrectly he was mentioning the AC Odyssey protagonist.
I misread that as “putting a pencil in his wife”…
Equally hilarious depending on how you take it.
Great now the pencil has a butt in my head… And John’s putting his wife in the pencil…
So now the pencil is taking it… Hancock style.
So the ac game has character customization? You’re not just swapping between a boy and girl template mc?
No you play that person the whole game. There’s like one or two different dialogue based on which one you play but everything else is the same for both of them. Basically they’re the grandkids of King Leonidas and have his spear which is a Piece of Eden, but they get banished from Sparta and become Spartan outcast. Then skip 17 years later your now a mercenary.
Also there’s romance now and you can romance any of these people regardless of gender. Which is good since the Greeks were banging anybody back then.Lastly there are dialogue choices now so what you do and say matter’s now. The choices are varied from it’ll have an immediate effect to it’ll change something farther down the story like who lives or dies and other stuff. And boats are back like Black Flag open world style.
Ubisoft made a better Bioware game than anything they’ve released recently…
5 Likes
This is why I prefer writing fiction, it’s so much easier when you can just write the thing the way you want it.
As far as historical accuracy goes, none of us really know how much of what was written down is really accurate. Historians had a habit of writing things to suit their masters requirements and, as we all know, in conflict the victors often rewrite history to suit their own narrative.
6 Likes
With all due respect, that kind of depends on what you’re talking about historical wise. Some cultures were renowned for writing heaps of things down (For example Greece and Egypt), so you’ll have heaps of accounts from different people on the subject and can probably get a good idea of what was likely to be happening there whether it was how they paid taxes, family relationships or what their belief systems were. Even where there’s been cases of trying to erase periods of history from societies that were writing a lot of things down, there is often so much evidence even by what was missing that we can work out what was probably going on (Example: the pharaoh Hatshepsut in Egypt who later was attempted to be erased from history by her successors.)
Other examples are problematic. For example, the celtic cultures often had more oral traditions, and many of the written records we have come from christian monks which in all probability did not always reflect what the belief systems were. (It’s thought that many of their deity/demi-gods etc had a downgrade to fit with the christian belief system like changing them to heroes and supernatural (non-god-like) beings, and that becoming increasingly more common as there was a shift towards christianity from the old religions. Without the written records, much of it is fragments and guess work.)
6 Likes
Is it? I think it’s simply a case of wanting to rewrite history and attempting to control things. Quite frankly, I’m tired of it.
As an aside, I am looking to write a fantasy story set in medieval times at the moment with the option to play as a woman, but if you want to be treated the same as men with the setting being similar to Game of Thrones, as I do provide that option, then you will likely have to fight for it in terms of fighting. It’s a lot of work on my end to account for the sex differences (I’m happy to do it), but the result will hopefully be worth it. Besides, that is how strong characters are born, through strife. (Imagine the trials Brienne might have went through in Game of Thrones, for instance.)
I can tell you right now, however, if I get a lot of flack for making female characters be treated differently, it’ll likely make me strip the option out altogether. Your words and actions always have consequences, just like my own words here have likely ruffled a few feathers. If I don’t take the option out, then I simply won’t care enough to change it. shrugs The more you push for something, the less likely it is to have the desired effect if someone feels forced to do something.
And this goes for men disliking female only games/stories, by the way, so we’re clear. I’m against that too. I’m always for the creator’s freedom of expression, something which seems to be getting stamped out more and more these days. It’s quite limiting for telling stories.
4 Likes
Well said! I’ve heard that King Arthur generally, and specifically the story of his quest for the Holy Grail, is actually a pre-Christian Pagan myth focused around a magic cauldron. It’s fascinating to study history but it’s quite sad how much knowledge is lost.
I’d love to know more about tribal human society, but without a time machine… what can we do? Write fiction using intelligent guesswork is the best we’ve got, I guess.
1 Like
Actually it is likely fact. Although that figure does represent mobile games in with console games, in general female players seems more underrepresented than they actually are. If you see the kind of sexist crap you have to put up with on some games, you’ll see why girls are masquerading as boys.
Fine with me. As long as there’s a non-mysogynist reason for the changes I don’t mind. If you take the example of GOT’s there are multiple female characters that are on par, or outclass their male counterparts in some situations. If there’s an option to aspire to that could be ok. I would expect the same if someone decided to do something from a female orientated society in reverse such as the Amazons.
I do actually agree with that to a degree. On one hand, if there’s deliberate mysogyny happening then push away. Sometimes a push is what is needed to put something into action. If people who are not sexist/racist/etc are being called out as being so, it’s probably more likely to have the opposite effect. Honey vs vinegar as I said in an earlier post. Sometime encouragement goes a very long way.
Agree, it’s sad to think about all the information that has been lost over the years after it has been destroyed or simply not ever written down. (Cries about the library at Alexandria, it sounds as if some of the stuff contained in the libraries at that time was irreplaceable)
6 Likes